Warlock Nerfs - 3/12/13

[Medieve]

I'm not entirely sure how other aff locks ended up falling so low, ours didn't move that much from last week. With last weeks gear upgrades and better familiarity with the raid bosses, went up, actually. Unless your raid is very closely clumped up at the top, I can't see an aff lock going from top to bottom with these nerfs. Both me and our other lock were still blowing the rest of the raid away, for the most part.

[Deleted]

I gave you an example of utility, heroism, that every encounter is designed around having. We have portals and healthstones. Portals only WE can use and a gateway with a limit of 5 charges at a time, so at max half the raid can use one at a time. We bring healthstones, a nice heal no doubt, but in no way as important as useful as Heroism. Yes other classes can bring it, but that doesn't invalidate you having it. Mages bring SP and Crit buff too.

Yes. Locks currently have better mobile DPS but I'm also of the opinion that the KJC talent is OP. Don't know much about Mage AoE but I imagine it's not terrible.

Every class has utility. There's enough class homogenization these days and there is such a great want for DPS balance from the general playerbase, that there's really no valid argument, in my opinion, for one class to be decidedly ahead of the others in DPS, pure or not.

It is terrible. 3 other classes can bring SP buff, 3 classes can bring crit buff, 2 classes can bring heroism. obviously if you dont have one of these classes you will bring a mage. But the likelyhood of that happening in 25 man? or even 10 for that matter. But anyways mage dps was pretty low after 5.2, again please look at actual data. All 3 mage specs were amongst the worst specs. How is that fair when all we offer is dps. Hence the slight 5% buff. Locks were ahead of everyone, hence the nerf.

[Fuiking]

If I wanted to go Destro in a pve modus, is haste important? or crit? Can remember it used to be crit, not sure about it now.

[Gorthan]

If I wanted to go Destro in a pve modus, is haste important? or crit? Can remember it used to be crit, not sure about it now.

read the sticked destro guide

[Mnevis]

And here I was telling my guildies how relatively pleased I was with how 5.2 Warlock adjustments worked out, what with the grimoire options pretty balanced, and me being able to keep my raiding spec. Figured Mages would adapt, since they were simming pretty well despite the tears.

sigh. never doubt the power of Mage tears.

[ZakAtack]

It is terrible. 3 other classes can bring SP buff, 3 classes can bring crit buff, 2 classes can bring heroism. obviously if you dont have one of these classes you will bring a mage. But the likelyhood of that happening in 25 man? or even 10 for that matter. But anyways mage dps was pretty low after 5.2, again please look at actual data. All 3 mage specs were amongst the worst specs. How is that fair when all we offer is dps. Hence the slight 5% buff. Locks were ahead of everyone, hence the nerf.

Have you ever seen someone bring a lock because they offer healthstones, which no one else does? Seriously. You bring Heroism. No class is brought anymore solely because of buffs because they've been homogenized so much, but you still need to bring enough to cover them all. Mages covering two plus Heroism is pretty good. And I'm not saying Mages should be bottom or locks should be top. We should all be middle-of-the-pack. That's not supposed to be a bad thing. Mages should not get buffed to a point where they objectively outperform every other class DPS-wise just because you don't think Heroism is utility.

But no you're right, Heroism is overrated, Mages bring nothing but DPS while we locks are the kings of utility. Ooh, a healthstone, I just saved my healer one GCD!

Edit: I'd give Mages the ability to create healthstones and portals in a second if that were what finally justified DPS balance. Plus as for Mage AoE sucking, you just got a 40% buff to Bombs. Spread them and profit? Not to mention I've read of Fire Mages hitting 500k+ on their Council openers by spreading lusted Combustion.

[Deleted]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000000000

Perfect balancing. Warlocks were never ever even close to that kind of balancing, it's basically impossible.

But bliizzard did good work to bring all three speccs together that close.

For heroic raiders so far, affli still dominates, but may change once more heroic kills get past the first bosses.

[Mort459]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000000000

Perfect balancing. Warlocks were never ever even close to that kind of balancing, it's basically impossible.

But bliizzard did good work to bring all three speccs together that close.

For heroic raiders so far, affli still dominates, but may change once more heroic kills get past the first bosses.

That's pretty unbelievable, honestly. This is a case where logs can be used as proof: at the moment, not only are all 3 specs acceptable, they're viable for progression raiding.

[Deleted]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000000000

Perfect balancing. Warlocks were never ever even close to that kind of balancing, it's basically impossible.

But bliizzard did good work to bring all three speccs together that close.

For heroic raiders so far, affli still dominates, but may change once more heroic kills get past the first bosses.

you do realize that you just posted results of the last 30 days don't you? these results don't prove ANYTHING at all.

[Deleted]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000000000

Perfect balancing. Warlocks were never ever even close to that kind of balancing, it's basically impossible.

But bliizzard did good work to bring all three speccs together that close.

For heroic raiders so far, affli still dominates, but may change once more heroic kills get past the first bosses.

can you actually back up any of your statements? affli is simming worst of all 3 specs when it comes to single target dps and none of the 3 specs are anywhere near being competitive against any mage spec. even in t15h content with bis gear EVERY single mage spec is outperforming all of our specs when it comes to single target dps or multi target damage.

the latest simc results prove that.

[Kneepel]

can you actually back up any of your statements? affli is simming worst of all 3 specs when it comes to single target dps and none of the 3 specs are anywhere near being competitive against any mage spec. even in t15h content with bis gear EVERY single mage spec is outperforming all of our specs when it comes to single target dps or multi target damage.

the latest simc results prove that.

Yet we're near the top of Raidbots, and most WoL logs have affliction locks #1 or near #1.

Hmm.

[Deleted]

Yet we're near the top of Raidbots, and most WoL logs have affliction locks #1 or near #1.

Hmm.

Raidbots isnt reliable atm, not enough information post nerf to form a conclusion. Most of the parses on there are from before the nerfs where we were competitive.

And WoL, I cant find a single target fight where we are anywhere near #1 - Only on multidot fights are we competing for top spots, and a lot of the high ranks on the single target fights are pre-nerf.

[Kneepel]

Raidbots isnt reliable atm, not enough information post nerf to form a conclusion. Most of the parses on there are from before the nerfs where we were competitive.

And WoL, I cant find a single target fight where we are anywhere near #1 - Only on multidot fights are we competing for top spots, and a lot of the high ranks on the single target fights are pre-nerf.

Afaik Raidbots has new data, since pre-nerf I believe our average dps on fights for 10-25 N where 130,000ish? Not sure tbh.

Also for WoL:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...um/damageDone/ #3

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m...um/damageDone/ #4, but all the top dps were very close to each other though.

I'll find some more later.

Anyways my point is, the nerfs did hurt but Demon and Aff aren't as bad as people are making them now. The 25% reduction added up to a 4-5 percent nerf which is substantial, but not game breaking. We're not a solid #1 anymore but we're still very viable and competitive.

[Deleted]

Oh I dont think anyone is arguing that we AREN'T competitive - We're still more then capable of being in the top 1/3rd of the meters and even top 3 on multi dot fights.

But I think what is riling up people is the fact that mages were in a similar position to us, and yet got buffed and are now easily #1 capable (..again, like every patch since the dawn of time). Whereas warlocks? We werent exactly OP after 5.2 - good yes, but not OP, and yet got nerfed like this. It just reeks of favoritism for mages which sucks major donkey balls.

[Kneepel]

Oh I dont think anyone is arguing that we AREN'T competitive - We're still more then capable of being in the top 1/3rd of the meters and even top 3 on multi dot fights.

But I think what is riling up people is the fact that mages were in a similar position to us, and yet got buffed and are now easily #1 capable (..again, like every patch since the dawn of time). Whereas warlocks? We werent exactly OP after 5.2 - good yes, but not OP, and yet got nerfed like this. It just reeks of favoritism for mages which sucks major donkey balls.

Eh, a few people were complaining.

Anyways, they're mages. They're immune to hurt.

[Teye]

I love all of the people who post data from pre-nerf and say Affliction is still fine. Seriously, learn how to use Raid Bots.

[Kneepel]

I love all of the people who post data from pre-nerf and say Affliction is still fine. Seriously, learn how to use Raid Bots.

Care to explain why it is not fine?

[Medieve]

Care to explain why it is not fine?

You must be new here. Don't open that pandora's box. It's not worth it.

[Leyl]

Care to explain why it is not fine?

You can't take a hot 21 year old version of something and compare it against its old and busted 80 year old version. It just ain't the same at distance, and even when you look close heh. They busted up DoTs big time and I can tell. I lost about 8K DPS in Demo, and Aff. Maybe that's fair to some developers, but I don't believe it is fair to the players.

[gunchix]

It just seems that they have utter morons working on the class balancing team. who was the genius, that buffed demo. And then nerfed it even more than it was buffed. stupid.