Are prot palas supposed to use retri gear ?!

[Snorri]

No, I am not the paladin in question. I play retri and some days ago I joined a raid with a prot pala in it. We killed first boss in ToT and the plate dps chest dropped. Prot tank rolled need on it, saying it is BiS slot prot pala until heroic mode. He explained it's the huge amount of mastery on it that makes it good. It's not that he is a ninja looter, he truly believes dps gear is BIS for tanks. I talked to his friends about it and they agreed with what he said.

Is he right? Are prot palas supposed to equip some plate dps? Is mastery so good for prot pala they can forsake other tanking stats and stamina?

[Caladia]

As far as I've been experiencing, after reaching Hit/Expertise caps our best stats are Haste and Mastery, which is on a lot of DPS gear. They tried to fix making Dodge/Parry more enticing, but didn't really accomplish that all too well.

[Deleted]

He is correct, if you take a look at Fraggoji, Paragon's prot paly, he got ~9000k haste rating. Haste reduces the cooldown of most of your spells as you might know. The faster you can get Holy power, the faster you can use Shield of the Righteous to get that mastery dmg reduction. So in essence, the more haste you've got, the less dmg you'll take.

[Rivin]

Mastery is a tanking stat--in Cataclysm it was the very best one we had. That chest has hit/mastery, so it's not even a DPS item--it's designed to be used for either tanks or DPS. If it was haste or crit I could see your confusion, but...mastery has been in place for years now.

[Deleted]

Hit, Haste, Expertise and Mastery are the best tanking stats, so yes, tanks use DPS gear.

DPS gear got the exact same amount of stamina and armor, so he is not forsaking any of those.

[Xs]

If you take a brief look at the Protadin guide you'll see that the priority is hit > exp > haste = mastery > debate, and in the case of that chest its somewhat debatable if its BiS, but its certainly a contender (although luckily this tier, there are many options: http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.4?fil...:3:3;crv=0:0:0 )

If you intend to raid with a Protadin though, I'd get used to rolling against them, as the priority is almost identical for Prot and Ret

FYI as well, 'tank' gear has the same stamina as dps gear and in most cases the same strength

[bals]

Is he right? Are prot palas supposed to equip some plate dps? Is mastery so good for prot pala they can forsake other tanking stats and stamina?

almost all gear of the same ilvl has the same amount of stamina so he is not 'forsaking' stamina
mastery and hit are also tanking stats.

[Torchbringer]

Is he right? Are prot palas supposed to equip some plate dps? Is mastery so good for prot pala they can forsake other tanking stats and stamina?

First of all he isn't giving up any stamina, dps and tank gear have the same amount. Dodge and parry are their worst stats, almost all go for haste as their first stat.

[Nairobi]

Welcome to the party, better late than never.

Prot paladins do not use "traditional" tank gear.

Haste is our best "overall" stat, while Mastery is our best "tank" stat. As others have mentioned, all gear of the same ilvl has the same allocation of stamina, so add me to the list of not sure where you're getting your numbers/complaints.

As a protpal, you want to [hard]cap expertise and hit, then stack haste/mastery. Personally, I'm pushing just shy of 10k haste, using mostly "DPS" plate. The only DPS stat that we don't actively pursue (nor avoid) is Crit. Everything else is of value to us, but specifically haste/mastery.

[Kaeth]

As icing on the cake, all of that haste also has a noticeable effect on Seal of Insight and Battle Healer (as well as dps), so haste rating increases a tankadin's mitigation, threat, dps, self-healing, and raid-healing all at once. As prot, once you get over the initial "weird feeling" having haste as your main secondary stat, it's beautiful to see it in action.

[Kragshot]

Mastery is a tanking stat--in Cataclysm it was the very best one we had. That chest has hit/mastery, so it's not even a DPS item--it's designed to be used for either tanks or DPS. If it was haste or crit I could see your confusion, but...mastery has been in place for years now.

Not only do we have to fight against Warriors and DKs for our gear, but now we have to fight against our own as well?

So, in other words...the damn Prot Pallys are all up in our pockets, taking food from our mouths.

What the fuck, Blizz...what the fuck!

[Rivin]

Not only do we have to fight against Warriors and DKs for our gear, but now we have to fight against our own as well?

So, in other words...the damn Prot Pallys are all up in our pockets, taking food from our mouths.

What the fuck, Blizz...what the fuck!

Why is your mouth in your pocket?

[Revvo]

Not only do we have to fight against Warriors and DKs for our gear, but now we have to fight against our own as well?

So, in other words...the damn Prot Pallys are all up in our pockets, taking food from our mouths.

What the fuck, Blizz...what the fuck!

If warriors are taking your gear, idk wtf they're doing, haste still isn't good for them. Who cares anyways? Most of the plate gear has haste anyways, and it looks like paladins and dks will offset different pieces. If anything, you have less compitition this teir.

[ZeroEdgeir]

Prot Gear = Ret Gear, except where Crit is involved. Every other stat that Ret uses is just as good, in almost the exact same priority, as it is for Prot. Which also makes it great if you MS one and OS the other, you can easily shift gear from MS to OS as you upgrade.

Now, there is times where you will wind up using some legit Dodge/Parry related tank gear (see: 4pc Set, Trinkets, Shield), but it's maybe 1/3 your gear.

[krykiett]

I ran a feral tank druid in TBC, Wrath, and Cata. I picked up prot pally somewhere in Wrath (I think). MoP hits and I re-roll Brewmaster, drop the druid and I eventually brought my prot pally up to 90 recently; this change is nothing new for those of us who have been playing tanks in dps gear. It might be an interesting thing to get used to, but I am putting my money on Blizzard moving all tanks to a similar stat/gearing allocation in the future (less gear to "make").

[Deleted]

Now, there is times where you will wind up using some legit Dodge/Parry related tank gear (see: 4pc Set, Trinkets, Shield), but it's maybe 1/3 your gear.

No trinkets with dodge/parry are legit. There are better blue trinkets than that.

4p is argueable, since really, which paladin is a big enough douche to take set pieces over anyone else just to turn them into prot pieces? Or set bonus is so weak anyway.

Shield is on legit item to have dodge or parry on really.

[Ebonheart]

No, I am not the paladin in question. I play retri and some days ago I joined a raid with a prot pala in it. We killed first boss in ToT and the plate dps chest dropped. Prot tank rolled need on it, saying it is BiS slot prot pala until heroic mode. He explained it's the huge amount of mastery on it that makes it good. It's not that he is a ninja looter, he truly believes dps gear is BIS for tanks. I talked to his friends about it and they agreed with what he said.

Is he right? Are prot palas supposed to equip some plate dps? Is mastery so good for prot pala they can forsake other tanking stats and stamina?

He was probably right, but a Ret Paladin would get more from it especially if it was an upgrade. During Cataclysm I remember the tier 11 legplates were better for Prot cause of the amount of mastery and hit on it.

However, considering the socket bonus had around 120 strength and the other similar chest pieces have a lot of hit and expertise/crit on it, it would make much better sense for a Ret Paladin to get it before a Prot.

Its just that Mastery the new "stat" in Cataclysm benefits every class so its really hard to distinguish gear items for each class. There are some classes where mastery plays a limited role. However, tanks rely heavily on Mastery.

But it doesn't make his reasoning wrong, just that he proved himself to be a selfish idiot.

[Aceshigh]

The fact that you think he is a selfish idiot shows your lack of understanding as to how protection paladins are working this expansion. That chest piece is argued to be pre-tier BIS for prot. If you somehow think that going for your BIS chest pre tier (something that this raid group would not be seeing) makes the tank selfish, I'm not sure what to say.

[Deleted]

He was probably right, but a Ret Paladin would get more from it especially if it was an upgrade. During Cataclysm I remember the tier 11 legplates were better for Prot cause of the amount of mastery and hit on it.

I would almost argue that the protection paladin earns more from that than the ret paladin.

It is 5 useful stats for the prot paladin, only 3 for the ret.
Also mastery is not really top prio for ret while it is very strong for prot.

Raiding this tier being undergeared made me really really long for gear upgrades and made me realise how much gear matters for tanks. Solo tanking Tortos in barely above 490 is a bitch.

[Aceshigh]

I would almost argue that the protection paladin earns more from that than the ret paladin.

It is 5 useful stats for the prot paladin, only 3 for the ret.
Also mastery is not really top prio for ret while it is very strong for prot.

Raiding this tier being undergeared made me really really long for gear upgrades and made me realise how much gear matters for tanks. Solo tanking Tortos in barely above 490 is a bitch.

Those camera angles....a thing of beauty on Tortos. /end sarcasim