Are prot palas supposed to use retri gear ?!

[Deleted]

I suspect if you look in the dungeon guide, the chest would be listed under both the prot and ret tabs, showing that Blizzard intended it to be for both. The fact that it has strength as the socket bonus doesn't mean much. There are chests with dodge that have strength bonuses; strength is ok for plate tanks, as it gives almost as much parry as parry plus it helps your dps.

Given that it's a new tier, a 522 chest is likely to be a big upgrade for a tank even if it has half decent stats and I think all plate tanks (not just palatanks) would regard mastery/hit as very nice stats.

Whether it's a bigger upgrade for a ret, I don't know. If it was a guild run, the master looter might take a view on that - depending on what the needs of the raid group were perceived to be; a beefier tank or more dps. But I don't think the tank was being disingenuous or selfish by asking for it.

[Splatter]

However, considering the socket bonus had around 120 strength and the other similar chest pieces have a lot of hit and expertise/crit on it, it would make much better sense for a Ret Paladin to get it before a Prot. .

But it doesn't make his reasoning wrong, just that he proved himself to be a selfish idiot.

Str converts to parry and crit is useless as a tank stat, sounds like it would be better to go to the prot pally than the ret pally. Nothing about this chest piece says it is for dps before tanks. People just need to get used to sharing gear. Both ret and prot have valid claims on the chest and you could argue that because it lacks haste its not ideal for ret and better going to the prot pally.

[Deleted]

Str converts to parry and crit is useless as a tank stat, sounds like it would be better to go to the prot pally than the ret pally. Nothing about this chest piece says it is for dps before tanks. People just need to get used to sharing gear. Both ret and prot have valid claims on the chest and you could argue that because it lacks haste its not ideal for ret and better going to the prot pally.

Crit is not useless at all for tanks, far from.

It can be argued that crit is more valuable on a prot paladin than most dps classes.

Though it all boils down to vengeance levels.

From what I have noticed so far in T15 normal modes, crit would be far more valuable on a protection paladin than for a retri paladin.

[yuca247]

The fact that you think he is a selfish idiot shows your lack of understanding as to how protection paladins are working this expansion. That chest piece is argued to be pre-tier BIS for prot. If you somehow think that going for your BIS chest pre tier (something that this raid group would not be seeing) makes the tank selfish, I'm not sure what to say.

I don't blame him it's really Blizz fault for making some things confusing. Tanks using dps gear is just one example. I remember when I used to play my frost dk and ppl would tell me to use UNHOLY aura back in the day. I was like "wtf ima frost dk not an unholy dk." There's a lot of little things Blizz could do that would go a long way to keep things less confusing.

[Deleted]

If you have doubts, socket bonuses tend to tell whether it's for dps or tanks. Stamina? Tank. Anything else? Dps.

[Serani]

If you have doubts, socket bonuses tend to tell whether it's for dps or tanks. Stamina? Tank. Anything else? Dps.

This is incorrect information.

[Fhi]

If you have doubts, socket bonuses tend to tell whether it's for dps or tanks. Stamina? Tank. Anything else? Dps.

Not true. Tank and dps now share the same gear. All you can say is anything with stamina/dodge/parry is for tank. Nothing more.

[Lumineus]

/shrug

I've just learned to accept it. Seems like these days you'd be a fool to tank in actual tank gear, unless you're a Warrior.

[Deleted]

/shrug

I've just learned to accept it. Seems like these days you'd be a fool to tank in actual tank gear, unless you're a Warrior.

Well, warriors still value dodge and parry very low, it is just, more acceptable as a warrior, since the difference between dodge and parry and other stats is smaller.

[Revvo]

Actually, now that I think about it, the real question here is why did you, a ret paladin, want this chest in the first place? It's Hit/Mastery with a red and a blue socket, and a strength socket bonus....it's really a terrible off piece. Like awful.

[Nairobi]

Actually, now that I think about it, the real question here is why did you, a ret paladin, want this chest in the first place? It's Hit/Mastery with a red and a blue socket, and a strength socket bonus....it's really a terrible off piece. Like awful.

But...but....item level!

[Malthanis]

But...but....item level!

Well, I guess it would depend on what they have currently. If it's a large enough item-level difference, the "but item level!" argument holds some weight.

[Deleted]

Well, I guess it would depend on what they have currently. If it's a large enough item-level difference, the "but item level!" argument holds some weight.

Well, still raises the question of why he wanted it over a prot paladin.

I have used intellect plate pieces because of the "But... but... item level!" argument, the increased item level = increased stamina and armor made it worth more than using a lower level strength piece. That does not mean that I take the intellect piece over a holy paladin since I would replace it asap a strength one dropped.

[Deleted]

Paladin tanks in 10 man enviroment tend to stack haste as their avoidance due to the extra dps, while some chose to stack mastery over it.

[Malthanis]

Well, still raises the question of why he wanted it over a prot paladin.

I have used intellect plate pieces because of the "But... but... item level!" argument, the increased item level = increased stamina and armor made it worth more than using a lower level strength piece. That does not mean that I take the intellect piece over a holy paladin since I would replace it asap a strength one dropped.

I guess that leads to the "how much of an upgrade?" question. If the tank had something that was already relatively close to (or even at) that item-level, and the Ret had something lower, I could see why the Ret wanted it. I mean, the "but BiS!" argument doesn't hold much weight with me either. I would want to see the highest possible increase in stats for the raid overall.

[Revvo]

I guess that leads to the "how much of an upgrade?" question. If the tank had something that was already relatively close to (or even at) that item-level, and the Ret had something lower, I could see why the Ret wanted it. I mean, the "but BiS!" argument doesn't hold much weight with me either. I would want to see the highest possible increase in stats for the raid overall.

We have no armory, so we can't tell, but I would probably take most pieces within reason from last teir that have haste over that chest. Especially if you're breaking 4 piece for it.

[Malthanis]

We have no armory, so we can't tell, but I would probably take most pieces within reason from last teir that have haste over that chest. Especially if you're breaking 4 piece for it.

Yeah, I'm mostly going on hypothetical situations and playing devil's advocate for the Ret. Mostly for the sake of discussion. I'd totally roll on the chest too.

[Nairobi]

Meh, unless the ret is grossly under hit cap (which is going to be damn near unpossible this tier), then he'd be stuck with a bolus of sub-par secondaries even after reforging. Meanwhile, the prot would be given 2 useful stat banks.

Socket bonuses mean pretty much jack in terms of delineating DPS and Tank gear; unless the bonus is D/P or stam, it's fair game for both. Tho, honestly, you can make a case for taking X item and gemming appropriately/avoiding subpar bonuses as well.

Long story short, it's about as good for the prot as it is bad for the ret. Plus, factoring in previous tier bonuses, if the ret has/had 4pc with chest, this is a huge downgrade. Whereas, it's a massive upgrade over last tier's Prot chest.

[Absintheminded]

....they can forsake other tanking stats and stamina?

DPS gear and Tanking gear all have the same amount of stamina at identical item levels. Totally feel your pain, but really you should complain on the Blizzard forums and ask for them to continue to work on Prot Pallies, because it's not optimal to have "dps" gear as BiS or best stats for a tanking spec.

Just slightly off-topic, take a few minutes and read the prot abilities and passives in your spellbook. You'll understand very quickly why haste, allowing you to Judge and CS (giving more AS + holy power) more for more often SoTR=more mitigation. The mastery is also directly tied to this.

[Deleted]

DPS gear and Tanking gear all have the same amount of stamina at identical item levels. Totally feel your pain, but really you should complain on the Blizzard forums and ask for them to continue to work on Prot Pallies, because it's not optimal to have "dps" gear as BiS or best stats for a tanking spec.

I do not see what is wrong with this?
Instead blizzard should maybe work on removing the "traditional" tanking gear and simply making tanks share with dpsers. This would make it so you have to disenchant less drops and get more relevant drops.