Expertise and Brewmaster

[Fhi]

the net resource loss of Keg Smash parries is only 8 energy, 1GCD, and 1 Chi.

Keg Smash is 2 Chi. It's painful when it happens, but it doesn't happen enough for me to want to go beyond 7.5%.

[Tinykong]

Outside of the first Keg Smash of the fight you should be gearing yourself with enough haste to always have the Chi you need for Shuffle + Guard to be up all the time. Generating 24 Chi + ~3-4/min for PB doesn't require much haste at all and the net resource loss of Keg Smash parries is only 8 energy, 1GCD, and 1 Chi.

Outside of very specific fight scenarios people are bringing up in general not being expertise capped does NOT equal taking more damage in general at all.

I've got something like 8k haste, hit and exp capped (7.5% and 15%) Without a consistent set of information, I've just been guessing about gearing. What stat weights should I be using? Only been tanking for 2 weeks.

[herpecin]

Keg Smash is 2 Chi. It's painful when it happens, but it doesn't happen enough for me to want to go beyond 7.5%.

he is referring to the fact that you jab after the KS fails to land. cant remember what page(seeing as it is one of the larger threads on this site), but it was discussed on the brewmaster guide.

[SurrealNight]

Keg Smash is 2 Chi. It's painful when it happens, but it doesn't happen enough for me to want to go beyond 7.5%.

Yes, but you just replace the parry with a Jab instead (which only generates 1 Chi instead of 2), so your true cost is the lost GCD, only getting 1 Chi instead of 2, and the 8 energy not refunded.

I've got something like 8k haste, hit and exp capped (7.5% and 15%) Without a consistent set of information, I've just been guessing about gearing. What stat weights should I be using? Only been tanking for 2 weeks.

Hit -> Cap
Expertise -> Cap (I say soft)
Haste -> X (I'm ~6k right now slowly bleeding it away)
Crit -> Everything else

AMR is doing pretty good if you delete the after soft cap # for expertise and put in a haste cap that fits you.

[Tinykong]

What type of number do you put into the haste cap area on AMR, the total rating or the percent you want? I've never gotten a decent configuration from AMR so I've been just using reforge lite in game to force the caps and go haste>crit>mastery

[Fhi]

he is referring to the fact that you jab after the KS fails to land. cant remember what page(seeing as it is one of the larger threads on this site), but it was discussed on the brewmaster guide.

Ah, I stand corrected then.

[kaiadam]

I agree on the add pickup, but I don't think there is a huge disparity in damage between the two, yet 25 has the extra advantage of additional healers. If there was a huge discrepancy, then 25 would need better gear to compensate. Dire Call for instance, 250k on 10, 270k on 25. A little bit more on the add abilities as well. Bestial cry 180k to 200k not a big deal in the grand scheme of things unless the health is so dramatically different you are having to have so many more applications before his death.

How many adds you get in 25? 3 of the balcony per door correct? They have static spawn locations, so they will never turn and one shot people if you have competent raiders, which I know you do. What I am saying is the expertise isn't a big deal in the end, because I am not missing the chi since the lvl 30 talents are not resource heavy anymore. I do know with my projected BIS list, I will be close enough to 15% expertise while maintaining a 5k Haste and a 7-8k crit ratio.

o.O not sure how this turned into a 10v25 debate, all I'm saying is that I never went above 60k damage intake/sec on Horridon. Also, one of the deaths on our kill was to a warbear landing and eating a raid member. Accidents happen /shrug.

Honestly whatever difference there is, is probably really tiny. The biggest factor for me is that 7.5% is what you need as a WW monk - so when my guild needs me to DPS I'm pretty much already geared for it.

Caring about optimal performance should never be dismissed, imo. I actually carry about 30 pre-cut gems/enchants around with me at any given time now to reforge/spec to ww for one tank fights should I be needed.

What type of number do you put into the haste cap area on AMR, the total rating or the percent you want? I've never gotten a decent configuration from AMR so I've been just using reforge lite in game to force the caps and go haste>crit>mastery

0 (I'm not kidding.)

[Tinykong]

Setting the haste cap to 0 on AMR is giving me 8k haste and 1.2% more crit. Isn't that too much haste?

Bah, this class is so confusing, way too many conflicting sets of information.

[kaiadam]

Setting the haste cap to 0 on AMR is giving me 8k haste and 1.2% more crit. Isn't that too much haste?

Bah, this class is so confusing, way too many conflicting sets of information.

Weird. I also have the stat weight for haste set to zero too.

[Tinykong]

Ran with a 7.5/7.5% set up tonight, prefer that setup much better than expertise capped.

[Zonex]

projected BiS on AMR; the stats are smth like this -

20k agi
6k haste
0 mastery
17.3k crit
7.5% hit
15% exp

Its hard not to find crit gear w/o mastery. At that point you can't even bleed off more than 2% expertise, and it'll go into haste anyway. 6k haste is more than enough

[SurrealNight]

Setting the haste cap to 0 on AMR is giving me 8k haste and 1.2% more crit. Isn't that too much haste?

Putting 0.255 into the haste soft cap is almost exactly 6K (at least on my char). I feel like 8k is to much haste even on more intense heroics in T14 where I was using PB more often I never used 8k haste.

I'm pretty happy with my current reforges, Close to 7.5% caps as I can, 6274 Haste, and 9375 crit.

Oh, figured I'd add last night I remember one fight I had 3 KS in a row get parried (supper unlucky chance), did it cause me to drop shuffle, miss a guard, or lose agro? No.

[Tinykong]

Putting 0.255 into the haste soft cap is almost exactly 6K (at least on my char). I feel like 8k is to much haste even on more intense heroics in T14 where I was using PB more often I never used 8k haste.

I'm pretty happy with my current reforges, Close to 7.5% caps as I can, 6274 Haste, and 9375 crit.

Oh, figured I'd add last night I remember one fight I had 3 KS in a row get parried (supper unlucky chance), did it prevent me from dropping shuffle, missing guard, or losing agro? No.

I'll have to give this a shot, using that reforge figure gives me 7.5/7.5%, 5.8k haste and 31.5% crit. Getting to 6k haste would just be a matter of not replacing a few haste gems with crit gems.

[djtravitrav]

You guys are arguing over 2550 stats total from 7.5% expertise to 15% expertise.

Losing 4.25% crit, which is what you would get from 2550 in stats, is not a game breaking experience. Not getting parried and losing chi is more important to me.

[Chuupag]

You are only losing 1 chi every 7 mins, pendulum swings both ways.

[SurrealNight]

You guys are arguing over 2550 stats total from 7.5% expertise to 15% expertise.

Considering the title of the thread and the entire point of this discussion is what to do with 2550 rating, yes you are correct.

And to Chuupag's point I think moving that 2550 rating into Haste would result in ~36 energy a minute which is almost 1 chi/min gained anyways. Just looked at an 8min Dumu attempt and # of KS parries = 0, the average # of parries between all attempts was < 1.

[Chuupag]

Yea I was meaning going from 15 to 7.5 exp you only lose 1 chi every 7 mins.

[Tinykong]

You guys are arguing over 2550 stats total from 7.5% expertise to 15% expertise.

Losing 4.25% crit, which is what you would get from 2550 in stats, is not a game breaking experience. Not getting parried and losing chi is more important to me.

During 10 fights last night (2 hours) Keg Smash was parried 17 times (4.5%) Black out kick 12 (3.3%) and Jab 25 (6.2%)

I'm not a heroic raider, so I can deal with those figures.

[Dimzum]

Good information in here as well as others. I just started tanking last week with my Monk and have been slowly changing out gear for the tank spec.
I cannot post my armory, but it is Dimzum on Alleria [US].

I am tempted by this thread to dump all my extra expertise and reforge some crit and haste. I am curious though. Is there a "soft-cap" for crit, that could theoretically keep elusive brew active on CD?" As I start to get extra gear, keeping 6k haste will be easy. Keeping 7.5% (if not more) hit and expertise will be easy. After say 35% crit buffed should I go back to forging expertise for more dps?

[SurrealNight]

Is there a "soft-cap" for crit, that could theoretically keep elusive brew active on CD?"

Roughly the mid 40's% (depends on your haste) will result in Elusive Brew being up ~50% of the time which is kind of a sweet spot once you get the 2P because it means you have either EB or the extra shuffle from the 2P buff rolling the entire fight, so I guess you could consider that a sorta soft cap. Even BiS Heroic only puts me to 50% crit which still wont result in 100% EB uptime so it's currently unreachable.