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  1. #41
    Banned Alenarien's Avatar
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    Ret's problems can be summed up in a number of ways;

    -Too many attacks that hit for similar amounts
    -Low sustained/High Burst; the latter of which is bound to CDs
    -The class has become 50% caster/ranged in essence; a Melee kiter/a paradox
    -Holy's OP'ness has caused Ret to suffer from Blizzard's constant paranoia about making it strong (something which is not reflected in other hybrids such as Druid)

    Not holding out for a serious solution for Ret until the next expansion to be honest.

  2. #42
    This week my team definitely did pretty well. I was bringing people down pretty reliably on my Paladin and the two dispels have actually gone a pretty long way in helping out. I can definitely agree that under pressure it's hard to really do anything if that pressure happens to not be magical; melee can still tunnel right through our paper armor. But I'm still not having as many problems as before; healing is doing pretty good. A couple 40ks and I'm in good shape even under pressure.

    I'm not sure about the whole "Hammer of Wrath doesn't hit hard." It seems to be killing people just fine as it always has. Killed a few healers by myself, just a matter of outplaying them and matching them in gear. And also having a teammate helps.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Ret's problems can be summed up in a number of ways;

    -Too many attacks that hit for similar amounts
    -Low sustained/High Burst; the latter of which is bound to CDs
    -The class has become 50% caster/ranged in essence; a Melee kiter/a paradox
    -Holy's OP'ness has caused Ret to suffer from Blizzard's constant paranoia about making it strong (something which is not reflected in other hybrids such as Druid)

    Not holding out for a serious solution for Ret until the next expansion to be honest.
    I think the 'too many attacks that hit for similar amounts' isnt out issue. It's an issue for other classes that certain abilities (or even autoattack) dominates their damage, or at least that is my opinion.

  4. #44
    Banned Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeActionTess View Post
    I think the 'too many attacks that hit for similar amounts' isnt out issue. It's an issue for other classes that certain abilities (or even autoattack) dominates their damage, or at least that is my opinion.
    The issue in my eyes is that because of this, we have no 'big' attacks with which to burst beyond CDs, as opposed to the likes of Warlocks who can rock Chaos Bolt, for example. When all attacks hit for roughly similar amounts, then the main issue is that our burst is bound to CDs in order to boost the strength of somewhat equal attacks.

  5. #45
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    -Holy's OP'ness has caused Ret to suffer from Blizzard's constant paranoia about making it strong (something which is not reflected in other hybrids such as Druid)
    Which they could probably fix by giving us actual stances. Druids are punished for doing "out of spec" things by being forced out of their shapeshift (talents not withstanding). If we could get an actual stance mechanic, maybe Seals meaning more than +damage for Ret. As it stands, using SoInsight and Glyph of the Battle Healer is the most interesting thing our seals have going.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Froggi View Post
    19k Hammer of Wrath does sound low, assuming you are talking target dummy/PVE damage values? I mean it could hit for that if you are hitting a pvp geared player and you have very little/no pvp power.

    Mine hits in the 50k range during wings, but that is on a PVE mob. And my gear isn't uber fantastic.
    mine hits 30k ish with wings, avenging wrath, inquisition, guardian, strenght trink pop..... I have full upgraded season 12 close to 60% pvp power...

    Generally i think ret is useless.... if i use a cd and get feared well then fuck me RIGHT?!

    " A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities "

  7. #47
    still so Ret against full tryn Gear , we will see TV hit like wet noodle ,

  8. #48
    I would like to see them bring back Aura's but make them work more like stances. For Example,

    Retribution Aura - Increases damage done by 10% and causes attacks done to you to build up stacks of Divine Retribution.

    Divine Retribution - For each stack you gain 2% Holy damage and reflect up to 5% of the attack against you, Stacking up to 5 times. Lasts 15 seconds
    .

    I feel like this would add something unique to Ret and also help us in terms of making people not want to always train the Ret paladin in arena (due to it causing themselves to take more damage).

    Holy and Prot would have similar Aura's that match their theme.

  9. #49
    Rets are SO fine right now in pvp. One of the better melee easily. Holy is absolute trash currently, worst healer IMO and with insane ret healing back I am seeing rets everywhere and hating the fact that landing a kill against a ret team is a fucking nightmare. Ret going full retards with cds hits harder then wars do. Ret utility is still very high. Ret instant cc specced Fist of justice is insane, 6 second ranged stun on a 30 sec cd? Play with a hunter and profit from 18 second cc chains on a healer every 30 seconds.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Rets are SO fine right now in pvp. One of the better melee easily. Holy is absolute trash currently, worst healer IMO and with insane ret healing back I am seeing rets everywhere and hating the fact that landing a kill against a ret team is a fucking nightmare. Ret going full retards with cds hits harder then wars do. Ret utility is still very high. Ret instant cc specced Fist of justice is insane, 6 second ranged stun on a 30 sec cd? Play with a hunter and profit from 18 second cc chains on a healer every 30 seconds.
    Please tell me you're joking.

  11. #51
    Are you all taking mastery into consideration?

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Please tell me you're joking.
    About what? The fact that any team with a ret on it is extremely difficult to land kills due to insane healing with bubble/bop and cc breaks for the healer? Or about holy being the worst healer which means people are playing ret and realizing its not actually that bad?

  13. #53
    To anyone backing up the "execute during wings" argument, what about pvp, when your wings always get dispelled instantly unless youre at 1k rating?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    About what? The fact that any team with a ret on it is extremely difficult to land kills due to insane healing with bubble/bop and cc breaks for the healer? Or about holy being the worst healer which means people are playing ret and realizing its not actually that bad?
    You always train the ret. Always. And Holy is arguably as good as the other healers still so.. yeah.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by rinleezwins View Post
    To anyone backing up the "execute during wings" argument, what about pvp, when your wings always get dispelled instantly unless youre at 1k rating?
    It seems that you are 1k rating hero cuz you obviously dont know that wings cant be dispelled anymore. And ye, i agree with most of the ppl in this thread ret IS NOT fine atm, healing is way too strong.
    Loved by Few, Hated by Many, Respected by All

  16. #56
    Pally was so op Pre tbc and tbc they are just compensating:P

  17. #57
    Retribution paladins have always been under-powered since late Burning Crusade/Early Wrath of the Lich King. I've come to accept it. Now, after the addition of Holy Power, I cannot stand playing my paladin!

  18. #58
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Well, they could fix it by making HoW do 100% extra damage against targets below 20% hp if that's what OP wants.
    Lethora, 90 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
    Amberglow, 90 Assassination Rogue, Shadowsong-EU
    Raiding 25man, 10hrs/week, 14/14H.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    I would like to see them bring back Aura's but make them work more like stances. For Example,

    Retribution Aura - Increases damage done by 10% and causes attacks done to you to build up stacks of Divine Retribution.

    Divine Retribution - For each stack you gain 2% Holy damage and reflect up to 5% of the attack against you, Stacking up to 5 times. Lasts 15 seconds
    .

    I feel like this would add something unique to Ret and also help us in terms of making people not want to always train the Ret paladin in arena (due to it causing themselves to take more damage).

    Holy and Prot would have similar Aura's that match their theme.
    That's a pretty good idea, makes me miss eye for an eye (the original one). I do miss auras as well since they were with paladins since Warcraft. Atm Rets need a flat dmg % increase, 10% sounds pretty good but atm I would say 15% since were so far behind on dmg atm.

    Quote Originally Posted by razmuzA94 View Post
    Pally was so op Pre tbc and tbc they are just compensating:P
    That was horde paladins :P

    Horde paladins had SoB which was ridiculous while alliance paladins were rocking SoT/SoV.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by razmuzA94 View Post
    Pally was so op Pre tbc and tbc they are just compensating:P
    Pally was OP Pre-BC? Is this some form of Satire? Try youtubing "The Paladin DPS" or something of that sort. It was a huge Blizzard joke video- that they forgot to add-in the Paladin DPS during Vanilla.

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