Making Random Battlegrounds not work for premade groups

[Firebert]

You want to nerf guilds and friends?

How is bracketing premades against each other a nerf to "guilds and friends"?

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 10:07 PM ----------

Condolences. The bums lost. My advice is to do what your peers did; get to work, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me! The bums will always lose!

That sure worked for raiding.

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 10:12 PM ----------

Stop posting number :P

If you follow the link, you'd understand that what I posted wasn't the same kind of numbers in my link.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

How is bracketing premades against each other a nerf to "guilds and friends"?

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 10:07 PM ----------


That sure worked for raiding.

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 10:12 PM ----------


If you follow the link, you'd understand that what I posted wasn't the same kind of numbers in my link.

The OP's idea was to abolish 5 man premades, not differ the matchmaking system.

[Firebert]

The OP's idea was to abolish 5 man premades, not differ the matchmaking system.

The best fix for people that don't want to go against 5-man premades is to give them their own queue, and OP clearly doesn't want to go against 5-man premades.

[Deleted]

Im just going to say it. All of you QQing about premade groups being unfair are probably all window licking douchebags that shouldn't be playing BG's to start with. Tbh people like you hold the rest of us back with you complete and utter lack of skill or comprehetion of how to even play the BG and or your class. Sorry but the truth hurts.

Your arguement goes both ways. You have to absolutely terrible not to win a random (10-15man) BG if you queue up as 5 people together.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The best fix for people that don't want to go against 5-man premades is to give them their own queue, and OP clearly doesn't want to go against 5-man premades.

I'm not saying looking into a new matchmaking system would be bad, I'm just saying the OP needs to stop crying "OP AND UNFAIR!" when there is nothing unfair about it. You can queue with 4 friends just like anyone else.

Not to mention the possible problem that could occur. Would queuing into a 10v10 BG as a 5 man put you with 2-5 man premades VS 2-5 man premades? Or would it be 5 randoms and 1-5man premade? Then those randoms can just have the same complaint. Its likely that whoever loses will whine.

This also brings up the issue of 3 friends. Would it be 3-3mans and 1 random per team? Or 7 randoms and 1-3man group per team?

Also, anything like this would probably bring the queue times up exponentially, and all because some people whine about losing. Personally, I rarely queue with others, if I do its with only 1 other friend. What is stupid, is how nothing here is unfair. You or the OP just doesn't feel like putting in the small amount of work required to make a 5 man group. You are free to do so like anyone else. Any ideas like this will just discourage friends and guilds from queuing.

To me this is like being challenged to a duel of pistols, and choosing to use knives, then whining that your opponent uses a pistol.

[Firebert]

Not to mention the possible problem that could occur. Would queuing into a 10v10 BG as a 5 man put you with 2-5 man premades VS 2-5 man premades?

If you queue as a 5-man premade into a 10v10, you'd only face and be paired up with other 5-man premades.

This also brings up the issue of 3 friends. Would it be 3-3mans and 1 random per team? Or 7 randoms and 1-3man group per team?

No. If you queue as a 3-man premade for a 10v10, then there exists only one composition for your team, and it would be 4-3-3. The opposing team can have 4-4-2 or 4-3-3.

Also, anything like this would probably bring the queue times up exponentially, and all because some people whine about losing.

Check locked-XP battlegrounds. What you're doing by running a premade is exactly the same thing: effectively your premade team is all twinked out due to high communication, stomping over lowbie soloqueuers.

Any ideas like this will just discourage friends and guilds from queuing.

With greater power comes greater responsibility.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I don't really agree. Choosing to play with friends =/= being given greater power. You can CHOOSE to solo queue knowing there might be 5 person groups, or you can find some friends or pugs to play with yourself. There is nothing unfair or wrong here.

Again, you are just incurring undue problems and longer wait times on people, because of whiners who get stomped. If you are implying there should be an only "group" queue, and an only "solo" queue, this would have HUGE wait times!

Also, no, forming a group to do something in an MMORPG and social oriented game such as WoW should not be looked down upon as cheating or playing unfairly, nor is it anything like "twinking."

Maybe you guys should get better at PVP, and learn how to be a leader, OR, use your right to form groups and play with friends.

[Rorke]

Maybe you guys should get better at PVP, and learn how to be a leader, OR, use your right to form groups and play with friends.

The problem is this right here. There aren't enough leaders and way too many pack scavengers. Too many people expect that other people will just come to them and offer them a spot in their group without doing anything. You have to take the initiative and talk or even bully people to actually get somewhere in this game and establish a social network and hierarchy. This game is much more about knowing the right people than it is individual skill. A person could be the best "X" player in the world, but that person means nothing if he's a loner.

This game shouldn't revolve around people who don't take initiative to form groups. If you're the type of person who doesn't have time and/or doesn't want to talk to randoms on the internet, that's fine. Just don't expect to progress as far as people who do talk to people on the internet.

[Xami]

I believe this is already how it is, except it doesn't go out of its way. Shorter queue is favored over matching premades, long time ago I remember a blue talking about it.

Two ways to fix this problem, force 2-3 heals per 10 players in all bgs, allow maxium 1 tank per bg, rules apply to premades as well, this way random groups have a chance, random no healers vs premade isn't pvp its just stupid. Also would stop 6+ healer games (sometimes can be a major advantage, other times disadvantage).

They actually talked about this too.


Other solution, make a button that indicates you would rather wait longer than be in a bg with any premades (works both ways), 10 min queue for a fair fight or a 2 minute queue which could be for either side.


Or (not likely), random solo queue only, want to queue as a group, queue specific, a little unfair to groups though.

You just summed up everything I wanted to say. In my experience you're way more likely to be going against a premade if you queued as a group of 3+ people. I think it also depends on how many people are in the random BG pool, and during off times like early mornings random pug could go up against a premade.

"Solo queue only" for a longer wait could work if enough people are interested. Longer queue may also stop bots from joining, as a side-effect.

[Deleted]

I can't believe that people actually want to go back to a point of long queues for BGs. Even a pre made team can be beaten by a group of randoms who are willing to work together and not go on rogue-solo missions, I've seen it happen.

Bigger problem seems to be that as soon as people notice that a few of the opposition are from the same realm they give up and just type "Let them win fast" in chat and just let themselves be facerolled.

[Howard Moon]

Nerf communication!

[Noxina]

I can't believe that people actually want to go back to a point of long queues for BGs. Even a pre made team can be beaten by a group of randoms who are willing to work together and not go on rogue-solo missions, I've seen it happen.

Bigger problem seems to be that as soon as people notice that a few of the opposition are from the same realm they give up and just type "Let them win fast" in chat and just let themselves be facerolled.

Yeah, this happens all the time. Even when both teams are full of randoms, and the opposite gets on flag cap, they decide to give up and let them win fast >.< So anoying that people got this attitude.

[Darksoldierr]

I'm just on the other side OP. Some of the best pvp times I've had inn wow was honor-farming premades 15/15. Owning up stuff for like 6 hours inn a row inn the weekends, having a blast with cool pvp players.

That was very very long ago

[LukashP]

Is it only me who thinks this? Warsong Gulch is the Call to Arms right now and what does that mean? Premade groups of 5 everywhere. I'm not even sure why, but tonight I've met against a TON good geared premades that has so much better communication. While it's not as big of a problem as in TBC, I still think it's a problem.

It feels so unfair that those premade have such a bigger advantage, so I think Random Battlegrounds should become more RANDOM and make you not able to queue together with others.

That is so stupid.
So I'm unable to queue with friends/guildies, just because you don't have such ?

[zenga]

That is so stupid.
So I'm unable to queue with friends/guildies, just because you don't have such ?

Organized pvp = rated bg / arena
Non-Organized pvp = random battlegrounds
(in my book at least)

It's fairly silly that one should create an organized pvp group to get a chance to win a random battleground ... kinda defeats the purpose imo. The solution is pretty simple imo: let as many premade groups go vs other premade groups i.e. a much smarter queuing system:

simplified example:

In the alliance queue:
- 2x2 groups of dps,
- 3 random healers
- 1x 5 group (with a healer)
- 8 dps that queue alone
In the horde queue:
- 1x 4 group
- 1x 5 group
- 1x 2 group
- 9 that queue up alone

The distribution that makes most sense to me in this example is that of:
alliance:
- 2x2 groups are paired with a 5 group and 1 random dps that queued up alone
- 3 healers and 7 dps into another team
on horde:
- 4 and 5 group for a team with 1 random
- the 1x2 group forms a team with 8 that queue up alone

This way it's still possible to face premades, but it won't be as much of a problem as it is now when you queue up solo. And premades actually have a better challenge. Nor do I think this will affect queue times.

[dercaderca]

Nerf communication!

Upon entering a BG, your chat log will disappear and you will be booted off skype and/or vent(and ingame chat lolol).


Now neither team can communicate and it's fair play now.

[Deleted]

Blizzard should make separate battleground queue where you cannot join with group
and make queueing (at least there) to have some kind of delay between game finding spot for you in battleground and join/decline popup window to make premades using Ventrilo to join at same time very hard.

Why? Because it would be more balanced.


Also since I cannot beat system I might as well join it,

where do you find these premade groups? I only found few from Oqueue, I think I see so many premades that people propably find them from somewhere else.

[asb]

To all the suggestions of groups only queuing into other groups: I frequently chain queue with a couple friends when we're gearing new characters. No gear, no voice chat--just competent players--and we still win most BGs. But I suppose we should just be put into a situation where queuing together would put us against nothing but fully geared noobstomper groups? Your system would actually cause it to be a disadvantage to play with friends. It kind of saddens my how many people are so incapable of human interaction that they demand their MMO become a single-player game with cries of, "nerf socialization!" Is it really that hard to find a guild?

I know it's not feasible to bring a group every time you're bored and want to kill some time with a BG, but are premade groups such a life-ruining experience that the game has to change to protect you from them? RNG is RNG, and it can go for or against you. And if a fix has to be made, where do you draw the line? Once you weed out premades as too big a variable, you might still lose games to RNG through comp, so structure that too. Once comps are predetermined, you could still lose to RNG through gear. Better factor that into the queuing system. Once that's solved, you might still lose to RNG giving you worse players. Better give people ratings too and factor that in. Random battlegrounds are random. Deal with it. Nobody cares if you lose sometimes.

[Bakis]

Is it only me who thinks this? Warsong Gulch is the Call to Arms right now and what does that mean? Premade groups of 5 everywhere. I'm not even sure why, but tonight I've met against a TON good geared premades that has so much better communication. While it's not as big of a problem as in TBC, I still think it's a problem.

It feels so unfair that those premade have such a bigger advantage, so I think Random Battlegrounds should become more RANDOM and make you not able to queue together with others.

So WoW is a multiplayer game and you disslike 5friends being able to play together? Maybe this game is not for you.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Maybe the people having problems in PVP should address the real issue. That CoD meme comes to mind because of this thread: "reasons I did in CoD" 1% He was a better player than me. 99% - BILLSHIT, LAG, CHEATERS, HACKERS, etc etc etc.

Real problems in random groups include things like:
-No coordination, even though you have a chat system, and perhaps a voice system (Still in the game?)
-Unwilling to work together
-Few people leading
-Fed people that listen to leaders
-Trolling and jackassery

So instead of blaming literally everything but yourself, maybe you should work on teamwork instead of blaming others because of your loss. Of course grouping with friends gives you a possible advantage, but again, its not cheating or unfair when you have the same opportunity to group with friends.