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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Rinoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    But the competition pool is getting smaller and smaller.

    Yet the ones at the very top are having to pull more and more hours.
    That is not entirely true. While the total amount of raiding guilds may have gone down a bit, the amount of guilds that are truly competing for world first 'important' kills (read: end bosses or stupidly hard encounters) have remained about the same since Legacy WoW. Apart from at the very start of the game there have always been around 2-5 guilds who are competing while others are trailing behind. Sometimes it's even been only one guild - like in Black Temple when Nihilum got every single world first.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinoa View Post
    That is not entirely true. While the total amount of raiding guilds may have gone down a bit, the amount of guilds that are truly competing for world first 'important' kills (read: end bosses or stupidly hard encounters) have remained about the same since Legacy WoW. Apart from at the very start of the game there have always been around 2-5 guilds who are competing while others are trailing behind. Sometimes it's even been only one guild - like in Black Temple when Nihilum got every single world first.
    Id love some sort of proof on this. General consensus has been that top guilds (all guilds for that matter) have decreased. Heck even paragon is 10 man now and they are notoriously the best of the best. And we always hear how much harder it is to keep 25man guilds. I am watching the hours these guilds are putting in, and there is a HUGE difference between the top 3 guilds and the top 10-20, like 20 hours per week difference.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinoa View Post
    Trust me, top guilds don't spend 35 hours on farm content. I remember back in ICC, guilds such as For the Horde did full HC clears in around 1 hour. Let's assume they had 2 alts each and that alt runs were slower. Let's say 4 hours a week.

    Top guilds raid *much* more than 'normal' guilds during progression, and *much* less during farm because they clear the raid mindblowingly fast while most others are still progressing.
    True. I agree with all of that, but apparently 35 hrs were stated in the documentary, Race to World First, which I have not seen, so I cannot commentate further on the context that these numbers were pulled from.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nudi View Post
    True. I agree with all of that, but apparently 35 hrs were stated in the documentary, Race to World First, which I have not seen, so I cannot commentate further on the context that these numbers were pulled from.
    Ararat talking with his uncle, he says "that is basically a part time job." and Ararat says the 5-10, Sun/Thurs (or something like that) details. But to be fair, they weren't a top 5 guild.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    Could/Should Blizzard do anything about this I wonder? Like, say, 50 heroic attempts (off the top of my head), and if not killed in X amount of attempts, then it must be killed in Normal mode before trying the next heroic boss. Some guilds like Midwinter did this.. After spending the day wiping, they just killed it on Normal mode and moved on to the next heroic.
    They already tried this in TOC and ICC and people just made alt raids to learn mechanics before coming in with their full raid team. It didn't solve anything.

  6. #26
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    Heck even paragon is 10 man now and they are notoriously the best of the best.
    Paragon is something of a special case in that you have to both be that damn good and able to speak Finnish. They talked a bit about it when they reduced to 10-man and this was a prominent part of the explanation.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-03-19 at 06:35 AM.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    i just wonder how they can keep a regular 9-5 job, or as me, a 6-16 job, while raiding for so long.

    guess they a basement dwellers getting everything paid by their parrents. or maybe they are robots? who knows?
    Raiding is their jobs, they're paid through sponsers.
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  8. #28
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    If you want to stay ontop, it's basically a fulltime job.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    i just wonder how they can keep a regular 9-5 job, or as me, a 6-16 job, while raiding for so long.

    guess they a basement dwellers getting everything paid by their parents. or maybe they are robots? who knows?
    This might be a hard concept for most americans but the people in these guilds have either one of 3-4 things, they work at decent enough jobs where they have vacation time, they work from home, they are students, or they are just wealthy.

    To touch on the They work from home part you only need about eh 30-40k a year to pay all your bills, and that is stupid easy to make if you know how from home through different means. Not to mention that the ppl you are talking about monetize their play time during the "farm" of a raiding section. so they can focus on raiding hardcore 20/7 for 2-3 weeks and then take 3-4 months to make money while raiding 7 hours a week if that, over 2-3 days.

    TL;DR they arent basement dwellers they just have lives that allow them to take 8 weeks a year to allow them to play a lot in 2-3 week spurts.

    Also anyone who thinks any sponsor pays a full 25 man guild to raid isnt very smart. sure it happens in other Esports but those arent 30+ member teams.
    Last edited by vqkatsuko; 2013-03-19 at 06:38 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    What has caused that to increase so dramatically?
    Nothing it has always been that way.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulosio View Post
    They already tried this in TOC and ICC and people just made alt raids to learn mechanics before coming in with their full raid team. It didn't solve anything.
    True.


    Should Blizzard ignore this problem completely though? People are doing this on their free will, but I am sure they'd love to not raid quite so many hours of the day if it meant they can still compete for the top spot. That is where Blizzard would have to step in and do something. IDK what Blizzard can do about this if anything, or if they'd even bother to, but I think it is getting too extreme. But that is why I stopped raiding hardcore, who am I to tell others how they should spend their time right?
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  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral Rinoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    Id love some sort of proof on this. General consensus has been that top guilds (all guilds for that matter) have decreased.
    Yes, the total number of tip top guilds have decreased. What I am saying though is that the number of guilds who truly have a shot at an important world first kill such as an end boss has remained very low.

    Let's take TBC as an example because a very nice blog just went up on Manaflask a while ago ( http://manaflask.com/en/article/2324...urning-crusade )

    The total number of guilds that had a world first bosskill in that expansion is 7. Note that Curse and SK Gaming is the same guild, they just renamed themselves. Out of those 7 guilds, only 2 of them got an endboss, and of those 2 Nihilum got 6 while SK Gaming got 1. That is what I mean - the pool of guilds that truly have got what it takes to get the really big first kills have remained pretty much constant since mid-Legacy WoW.

  13. #33
    Who cares. There are a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of raiding guilds that can play like this.

    I'm sure I've played 100 or 120 hours in a week before, but that's just because I was on vacation and had nothing else to do and decided I would play WoW day and night for a week. There's nothing wrong with putting long hours into the game, occasionally. Or if you are a person who just has a lot of a free time (someone living on disability for example), putting long hours into it all the time, if it makes you happy.

    There's no reason for Blizzard to gate the amount of time that guilds can spend on "the race." First, people will find a way around whatever gating system is implemented. Second, the people that are super driven to "achieve" in WoW will probably come out on top anyway. So, just leave them be.

  14. #34
    blood legion raid 140 hours per weeks

  15. #35
    Also they raid this shedule one or maybe two weaks. And then just farm the whole raid in one or two days.
    Just calculate how many hours will spend regular guild with 4-5 days of raids in 5 months compared to this shedule. Not so much hardcore right?

  16. #36
    Who cares if a very small amount of the player base makes such an effort in the first 2 weeks of a new content, once every 6-8 months? It's their choice.

    Other's probably raid much more hours throughout the content tier, whilst they will farm the content in 1 night.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by mirtek View Post
    Also they raid this shedule one or maybe two weaks. And then just farm the whole raid in one or two days.
    Well it is this tier at least probably closer to three weeks so it is still quite hardcore. I'd assume that there aren't actually that many people that can get 3 weeks just on the spot when a new content patch arrives.
    Anyways claiming that progress guilds ever raided 5 days a week for 4 hours is just clueless.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Broloth View Post
    Raiding is their jobs, they're paid through sponsers.
    Do tell your sources.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    I remember Paragon stating that they raided like 17 hours in a row before they got their Cho'gall heroic (world second) kill. And if you watch the world's first video you will get an impression that they raid every day. No one is only raiding 35 hours a week. Karfagen openly stated that they raided up to 20 hours a day in the video. That was back in Cataclysm, and I doubt much have changed. Surely many of the guilds have quit, but new guilds have arrised with the same raiding schedule as the top 5 guilds back then.



    They don't get paid for this outside of that one guy that streams it. They may get sponsor gifts as in head phones and mousepads... but that is basically it.
    This. I'm consistently astounded at the amount of people running around saying/thinking that raiders are getting a full time income off raiding.

    The fact is, heroic world first races are such a niche inside a niche and the majority of the people playing this game don't know or care who the top guilds/players are, that no gaming/hardware/computer company is going to pay a team of people $60k/year to raid. Thinking otherwise is just... I don't even know what to say it is, but wow.
    Last edited by spectrefax; 2013-03-19 at 07:18 AM.

  20. #40
    I was in Method for a few years and we often raided more than those hours during progress, even in TBC.

    Farm content doesn't take 35 hours, so that idea can get thrown out right now lol. That's the glory about competing for world firsts... You push ridiculous hours for the first couple weeks and then you can slack and clear farm content in one evening and then you're done for the week.

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