So how would YOU redesign Death Knights?

[Deleted]

I'd probably take away some of the rune requirements from certain actions to give the specs a little more fluidity.

[Worgslarg]

As with others, IT is single target, HB is aoe.( for blood, IT now deals 25X threat as damage( in blood pres), this assumes that the 500% threat bonus is toned down to 200%( only thing i dislike about cata/mop tankin, threat is easy)
More then one a server
only one disease per spec. FF is baseline. BP for blood, applied from heart strike.( replaces FF) ( deals damage, and lifesteals from target, for caster on tick.), FF for frost/UH,( same as now) Ebon Blight, for uh , Deals additional damage every time your minion attacks.
PS is unholy only, applies EB
Remove RE/RC
Runic power is no longer used on most abilitys. Generates at 3 per sec( increased by 0.7 per rune, OFF cooldown( to reduce the penalty for sitting on a rune), . Instead, it increases rune speed by .40% per unit.,Can be consumed to increase damage( or reduce damage taken as blood) by a new ability, idk a name , 2% per 10- RP( 4% reduction per 10 as blood, lasts 3 seconds per 10,
2H/DW both use oblit>
Oblit now requires a death rune to use, and consumes 2 deathrunes, or 2 uh runes( if you have DD/FF/UU) and deals 20% bonus shadowfrost damage. , IT/HB will gen a DR after being used, frost now has 4x frost rune baseline, and 2x UH rune.
Frost Strike now requires RP to use, does not consume, and has a 10 sec cooldown, damage is increased by 1% per RP( same for death coil/ rune strike,)
Revert Blood tap to cata.
Rem winter/Defile(new, just like on lich king) is basline for Frost/UH respectively, and both deal damage, insreasing by 10% per stack( RW, or sec for defile, stacking up to 5 times.)
Gorefiends is blood basline

Chilblains removed
level 90 talents

Dark grasp- Your disease now reduces movespeed of target.
Shadowey grasp- Your melee attacks are now usable from 8 yards away(player, 10 for nonplayer)
Chill of the wastes- When your target next moves 10 yards away from you, they are frozen for 5, and your speed increases by 30% for 5 sec, and ( 1 min CD, lasts 30 secs)


I know a lot of it is reaching ,and many of my numbers would need a whole lot of tuning.
But, chances are none of it will be implemented.

[Redmage]

Make unholy more caster based and have them use spell plate.

[Deleted]

Make unholy more caster based and have them use spell plate.

This is by far the most awesome idea I have ever heard.

[Nnyco]

i would reverse dark transformation, so lets say timmy can transform with 100 energy, each deathcoil you cast while hes small gives 15 energy, he also regenerate like 1energy/second. durin dt he obviouly has no energy. so you can transform him on start of fight

[Rothulean1]

God am I glad Rothulean1 isn't a DK developer. So many simplifcations it's unbelievable. Do you people truly want such a simplified class by only have 1 dot to worry about and less rune managing?

The only real thing I'd redesign about DKs is by adding a couple of fun vanity glyphs like someone suggested. Really liked the idea of changing the glow of your eyes depending on presence

The devs themselves have said they wish DK resources werent so complicated. So many simplifications? Yea, hitting Outbreak for 2 diseases instead of 1 is so much more difficult.

/facepalm

[Beefkow]

Buff SS so that way unholy can actually want to cast it.

[Deleted]

Blood being dps spec
Frost being tank spec

[Leviatharan]

Warning: Unrealistic dreams follow.

Personally, while I like Unholy in its current iteration (in spite of its many flaws), I would not be averse to them making Unholy into the DK instant-Caster spec somewhere down the line (probably around the same expansion they decide Shockadin is a legitimate way to DPS, or want to bring back Rockbiter tanking). It's a bit of an issue to regear if they want us to use Intellect to cast, sure, but that's how it goes every expansion with some classes, and it's not like our weapons are much more than a stat stick anymore. Or hey, they do something unique and keep us AP-based and let our ranged abilities deal some weapon damage (Sword Beams, anyone?).

Essentially, a caster-version of Unholy would have a lot more focus on disease and pet damage- even letting diseases scale with Haste- and completely forgo any and all weapon attacks (yes, all two that you were actually using), with passive abilities that allow the disease ticks and ghoul swings to be as effective as weapon swings as far as activating Sudden Doom, Fallen Crusader and other procs are concerned.
The DK would focus on increasing the damage of diseases themselves, while the ghoul could exploit the disease effects to deal additional damage (a la Obliterate, Scourge Strike, Heart Strike, Blood Strike), or vice versa.

Obviously, range of Festering Strike, Plague Strike and Pestilence would be increased by 30 yards, though I feel that Scourge Strike would be replaced with a ranged version of Degeneration- while it wouldn't remove HoT effects, it would apply a disease to the target that would increase its damage in a way a bit like Ignite, while Death Coil causes diseases to either tick instantly or tick faster. Alternately, Scourge Strike would compel the ghoul to deal damage to its target increased by the number of DoTs on the target, while the Ignite-like DoT effect is built up by Death C- Wait. No. Not that again.
Festering Strike would increase the duration of DoTs on all diseased enemies within range of the target, rather than just the target. Pestilence would... I guess just swap over to a BF cost? Not a solution I particularly like, honestly.
Dark Transformation and Shadow Infusion can stay as they are, though I feel like the disease interaction for them is a bit weak. Call it a work in progress.

If nothing else, I'd like to see Wandering Plague revived or alluded to in some form, perhaps as an AoE form of whatever spell deals additional damage to diseased targets (ie if the spell that compels the Ghoul to deal additional damage to diseased targets is 1U, then WP would be 1U as well; if Death Coil causes additional disease damage, then WP should be available as an RP-based spell and a proc from Sudden Doom).
I honestly don't know about how it would play out precisely, but a system like this could bring back things like Ebon Plague, Vile Spew, even the ghoul's Infect or open the possibilities for a Necrotic Plague effect. Not to mention that Unholy Frenzy would become a bit outdated, allowing for any one of these as a cooldown of some sort.

As for other tidbits: Death Siphon and Necrotic Strike gaining the same cost as Soul Reaper (which makes Death Siphon a very attractive option for Unholy in this case, since they'd otherwise need to melee to use Death Strike), Mark of Blood being returned to Blood allowing Bloodworms to be tuned down, AMZ being redesigned not to need a cap, LB being castable on others, Purgatory making you temporarily immune to damage, and hopefully a more orderly presentation of the talent trees- rather than 2 tiers dedicated to a mixture of CC and mobility, just 1 tier dedicated to each; perhaps even a replacement of T56 or T75 with a damage tier.

Then, and only then, would I be willing to see Blightcaller again. *cough*

[matthias9742]

For Blood I would love to see DRW cost less/no RP and for it to actually use a weapon scaled to our weapon instead a wrath weapon as its base. Blood also need some sort of raid utility baseline, and I think bloodworms would be a great way to do that. Just make ti so that the worms do about 50% of their live healing, but have a button to pop them.

Would also like to see T75 removed and just pick 2 to give baseline to all DKs. With this BT would probably have to have its charges gained nerfed down to 1 per RS/FS/DC and max 10 stacks, but would bring it back to occasional clutch runes when our rune tetris goes awry

[Alandris]

I like my Dk as it is now but there are a few things that are bugging me :

- about diseases : i dont really get what the devs thinks i mean in WotLK we were spamming those things and now it's so easy no worries about FF and outbreak/UB for BP I nearly dont have to use PS but it's still clunky. So they should either

a) dumb it really down completly and do smthing like Purulent Touch : the DK basic strikes apply both diseases on target.
b) make it so u want to apply both in a meaningfull manner which would also make 2H frost rotation a little less of 2-button-and-a-proc rotation.

- about ressources : the actual system is dumb. If you use an ability with runes/rp that doesnt give you rp/runes somewhere it doesnt feel right and they can't make new abilities because well our ressources are finite.

a) Make ERW 2-3 minutes CD
b) Make rime give rp it's so stupid to use HoW in our dps rotation can you imagine in the midst of battle your Dk "hey fellows ! Let me perfore your eardrums with my horn of awesomeness so i can keep killing this dragon"
c) Take away the rune cost of SR
d) take away the cost of non-damaging spells like Pillar of Frost,IBF,Strangulate...

- I dont get why every frost abilities slows your oppoent down except the one perfom by a frost dk => mini chillblains effect one FF (like 80% slow)
- SR is kinda odd, when leveling the haste buff is way to short to be effective, 5 sec to deal damage is too long, shadow damage belong to unholy frost doesnt really care and its cost is freaking annoying as 2H. No cost / 5 sec CD / straight dmg
I'd like to thing kewl 35% time to hit lie a truck not kewl 35% time to screw everything with the delay shit shadow dmg i'm 2H frost for teh big scary numbers FFS.
- IT is just useless i dont think i used it once since the beginning of MoP, HB does it better which is weird considering its splash damage.
- Runes regeneration talents should be baseline RT for blood, RE for frost and RC for unholy.
- It feels like all we get as talent are passive talent we use to have (hi lichborn,chillblains,DP,AMZ etc) or meh ones while our 90 are cool it doesnt feel game changing like the last talent from the old talent trees felt.
- I'd like a damaging boost Tier with old talents like Blood caked blade and with a talent to buff the pet : make it spec based abo for blood, lich or frost squeletal warrior for frost, specter for unholy.
- Up rune of razor ice ( dmg ,%frost dmg modifier..) so it may be an alternative for frost with RFC still better for unholy, more choice would be great since it's so specific to the class.

[Maxilian]

GIVE THEM SHOTGUNS!..... and LASERS!

Now O.T: I like Dks as they are now (well they are quite nerfed now but i like the Gameplay), i will allow more than 1 DK per server

[celinamuna]

Design unholy as more of a spellcaster sharing that int plate with holy paladins (so it would sort of even out with int mail with 2 specs per each)

[Deleted]

- Soul Reaper undispellable, the 5 sec "explosion" is affected by haste, 30 yard range, no longer a melee strike, it now deals shadowfrost damage
- All Runes are now Death Runes. The class is balanced around this change accordantly. Main strikes cost 2 Runes (Death Strike, Obliterate, Scourge Strike), utility/CC/AoE spells cost 1 Rune.
- Rune of the Fallen Crusader no longer has a chance to heal you for 3% of your maximum health, it now passively heals you for 4% of the damage you deal.
- More coming...

[valliant13]

Blood being dps spec
Frost being tank spec

Why not just make a dps blood spec and tank spec similar to how druids get feral and guardian. On top of that I don't see why people are whining STILL about blood not being dps. 2H frost pretty much is what blood dps used to be just different abilities.

---------- Post added 2013-03-21 at 09:14 PM ----------

I like my Dk as it is now but there are a few things that are bugging me :

- about diseases : i dont really get what the devs thinks i mean in WotLK we were spamming those things and now it's so easy no worries about FF and outbreak/UB for BP I nearly dont have to use PS but it's still clunky. So they should either

a) dumb it really down completly and do smthing like Purulent Touch : the DK basic strikes apply both diseases on target.
b) make it so u want to apply both in a meaningfull manner which would also make 2H frost rotation a little less of 2-button-and-a-proc rotation.

- about ressources : the actual system is dumb. If you use an ability with runes/rp that doesnt give you rp/runes somewhere it doesnt feel right and they can't make new abilities because well our ressources are finite.

a) Make ERW 2-3 minutes CD
b) Make rime give rp it's so stupid to use HoW in our dps rotation can you imagine in the midst of battle your Dk "hey fellows ! Let me perfore your eardrums with my horn of awesomeness so i can keep killing this dragon"
c) Take away the rune cost of SR
d) take away the cost of non-damaging spells like Pillar of Frost,IBF,Strangulate...

- I dont get why every frost abilities slows your oppoent down except the one perfom by a frost dk => mini chillblains effect one FF (like 80% slow)
- SR is kinda odd, when leveling the haste buff is way to short to be effective, 5 sec to deal damage is too long, shadow damage belong to unholy frost doesnt really care and its cost is freaking annoying as 2H. No cost / 5 sec CD / straight dmg
I'd like to thing kewl 35% time to hit lie a truck not kewl 35% time to screw everything with the delay shit shadow dmg i'm 2H frost for teh big scary numbers FFS.
- IT is just useless i dont think i used it once since the beginning of MoP, HB does it better which is weird considering its splash damage.
- Runes regeneration talents should be baseline RT for blood, RE for frost and RC for unholy.
- It feels like all we get as talent are passive talent we use to have (hi lichborn,chillblains,DP,AMZ etc) or meh ones while our 90 are cool it doesnt feel game changing like the last talent from the old talent trees felt.
- I'd like a damaging boost Tier with old talents like Blood caked blade and with a talent to buff the pet : make it spec based abo for blood, lich or frost squeletal warrior for frost, specter for unholy.
- Up rune of razor ice ( dmg ,%frost dmg modifier..) so it may be an alternative for frost with RFC still better for unholy, more choice would be great since it's so specific to the class.

From what I could understand(no im not making fun of you, I actually understand that english most likely isn't your first language) I agree with almost all your points. The only one I don't really agree with is removal cost of SR. I think they should change it to cost something like 30-40RP. They could do this by editing how might works to allow this. SR SHOULD cost a resource of some sort. NOBODY has a free execute and we technically have the best execute in the game since we can start at 35%(45% with 4pc). I feel they could make that work by adding it onto Might of the Frozen Wastes. It's just REALLY fucks up the rotation as a 2H frost dk, and if you aren't getting lucky with RE procs then you are sitting there rune locked and basically just jerking off waiting for your OB key to light up. I'm actually wondering when RC will be better for 2H frost dk's.

[Shahad]

Make unholy more caster based and have them use spell plate.

Yep, I've wanted for Unholy to move more into a caster role for ages.

[valliant13]

Yep, I've wanted for Unholy to move more into a caster role for ages.

Yea, that would be quite awesome imo. AND would make it so more than one class uses int plate.

[Terahertz]

The devs themselves have said they wish DK resources werent so complicated. So many simplifications? Yea, hitting Outbreak for 2 diseases instead of 1 is so much more difficult.

/facepalm

I wasn't just talking about going from 2 diseases to 1, I was talking about his redesign suggestions/wishes/dreams. Going from 6 runes and 2 diseases, which we've had since DKs were introduced, to 3 runes and 1 disease while focusing more on runic power is really boring. It sounds like WW monk where your chi generating move does poor damage. I also wouldn't mind if they removed outbreak and unholy blight tbh.

Yep, I've wanted for Unholy to move more into a caster role for ages.

I like being a multi-class spec though

[Clash the DK]

I think the best way forward for the design of Death Knights is to address some of the core problems. First, we need to redefine Death Runes and how we use them. This is accomplished by reassigning their purpose. Death Runes would only be usable with specific abilities and not with just any ability. For example, you could no longer use say Howling Blast with a Death Rune. Each spec would have access to a certain amount of permanent Death Runes. Two for Frost and Unholy. And four for Blood.

Another big change would be no more multiple rune abilities. The way that our runes refresh (half a pair at a time) just doesn't jive with abilities that cost more than one rune. So, in the name of progress, we change.

Frost would play the same whether DW or 2H. Frost and Blood would only deal with one disease. The details on how everything would work are below. Reminder: All changes would be done in a manor that would be balanced. Damage would need to be adjusted here and there.


FROST --- (DD-FF-FF)

1 Frost Rune:
Icy Touch - (Single target damage increased higher than Howling Blast / Empowered further through Rime)
Howling Blast
Obliterate - (1/2 Frost Damage) (20% base chance to crit) (Procs Rime) (No longer affiliated with KM)
Pillar of Frost

1 Death Rune:
Death Siphon - (Base ability for Frost and Unholy) (Damage increased significantly)
Soul Reaper - (Physical damage increased) (Delayed damage changed to Shadowfrost and triggers after 3 seconds)
Necrotic Strike - (Damage increased + Healing absorb increased)
D&D

Runic Power: (20)
Frost Strike - (Only ability that works with Killing Machine)

No Resource Cost:
Army of the Dead - Instant (No channeling)




UNHOLY --- (DD-UU-UU)

1 Unholy Rune:
Outbreak - (Applies Frost Fever and Blood Plague) (No cooldown)
Scourge Strike
Pestilence - (Spreads empowered Blood Plague and Frost Fever + Wandering Plague)
Dark Transformation - (30 second cooldown / 15 second duration) (SI buffed and built into DT)

1 Death Rune:
Death Siphon - (Base ability for Frost and Unholy) (Damage increased significantly)
Soul Reaper - (Physical damage increased) (Delayed damage changed to Shadowfrost and triggers after 3 seconds)
Necrotic Strike - (Damage increased + Healing absorb increased)
D&D

Runic Power: (20)
Death Coil

No Resource Cost:
Army of the Dead - Instant (No channeling)





BLOOD --- (DD-DD-BB)

1 Blood Rune:
Blood Strike - Applies Blood Plague
Heart Strike
Dancing Rune Weapon

1 Death Rune:
Death Strike - (Blood ability only)
Soul Reaper - (Physical damage increased) (Delayed damage changed to Shadowfrost and triggers after 3 seconds)
Necrotic Strike - (Damage increased + Healing absorb increased)
D&D

Runic Power: (20)
Rune Strike
Blood Boil - (Spreads Blood Plague) (Triggers T75)

No Resource Cost:
Army of the Dead - Instant (No channeling)

[Wrien]

Change or replace some talents:

Plague Leech Removed
New Talent Spreading Plague:
Your diseases have a 30% chance per tick to spread to a nearby enemy

Rolling Blood Removed
New Talent Empowered Pestilence:
Removes the rune-cost and increases the CD of Pestilence to 10sec, and makes it apply Frost Fever and Blood Plague to all targets hit.

Unholy Blight
Duration reduced to 5 sec and CD reduced to 30 sec.

Anti-Magic Zone
No longer absorbs an amount of magic damage but instead reduces magic-damage taken by 30% for everyone inside the circle

Purgatory
Duration increased a little

Chillblains Removed
Now a passive skill for all Frost DK's (it's far too important to frost DK's atm. so there's basicly no choice whatsoever in that tier). Frost DK's have no mobility passive skills atm. Unholy have pet stun.
New talent, Desecration:
Your Plague Strikes and Necrotic Strikes defile the ground within 7 yards of your target. Enemies in the area are slowed by 50% while standing on the unholy ground. Does not trigger against targets that are immune to movement-slowing effects. Lasts 15 sec.

Asphyxiate Removed
DK's doesn't need stun, seriously Blizzard!
New talent, Dark Force (yes, that name!) 30sec CD:
Pushes all targets within 10 yards in front of you back and knocking them to the ground for 2 sec.

Death Simphon
Rune-cost Removed
25sec CD
Deals x shadowfrost damage (same as now), healing you for 200% of the damage dealt + an absorbing shield that absorbs damage equal to the amount healed

Conversion
Runic-power cost removed
45 sec CD
Heals you for 5% of your maximum health every sec for 8 sec

Blood Tap Removed, adding back the old Blood Tap for all DK's
New talent, Rune Mastery:
Passively increases rune-regeneration by x% (20% mabye?)

Remorseless Winter Removed
Hungering Cold added back in it's place. Also removes all Dot's now

Gorefiend's Grasp
Now also reduced movement speed of target struck by 50% for 2 sec


No damage-buffs or anything. Only design changes. Came up with these changes to change the "useless for one spec" and "useless in pvp/pve" talents, resulting in more fun talents and actual choices. Blizzard rewamped the talent system to give us some "hard decisions" on what to pick, but the way it is now there's no choices whatsoever!