EU Commission - Piracy doesn't affect music sales

[Deleted]

Well, you just pointed out the problem. We do NOT want a full CD, we only want a few songs, so we won't pay for it. If the music industry had started with digital paying downloads sooner, it would have been much better. Instead, you want to keep selling full CDs and from a client POV this is plain unacceptable. I won't pay 15 euros for 3 songs I like plus a bunch of crap, period. Move on or disappear, it's up to you.

[Deleted]

I pirate occasionally because I simply cant afford it, Im not about to pay rediculous amounts for any game or song I want. They arent losing a sale because im never going to buy it anyway, Im a huge halo fan but I still havent bothered getting the 4th one, if I could pirate it I probably would.

Also the music industry can go to hell and rot, like Ill feel pity for not buying a CD so they can have another golden swan. I make an effort to buy cds for new and not so well known bands, but to hell with paying for someone who banks thousands every day.

Fortunately most people don't have the mindset of a petty thief and don't mind paying for things.

[Jeleh]

Fortunately most people don't have the mindset of a petty thief and don't mind paying for things.

Yet ironically the entertainment industry does, insisting people pay premium prices for products which are not worth the money.

Main reason people pirate - the price outweighs the quality of said product. Entertainment needs to do two things, offer ease of access by moving to the online sales trend and offer value for money.

[Deleted]

Yet ironically the entertainment industry does, insisting people pay premium prices for products which are not worth the money.

Main reason people pirate - the price outweighs the quality of said product. Entertainment needs to do two things, offer ease of access by moving to the online sales trend and offer value for money.

Charging a price for goods is not thieving.

Given this thread is about music piracy, give me an example of a 'premium product' - CD or download - which you think isn't worth the money, and tell me how much you think it should cost.

[Deleted]

I am a music producer and so have a vested interest in all this. This research is misleading and can be disregarded. The study focuses only on music downloads and doesn't take into account the effect of piracy on CD sales. CDs still make up the majority of global music sales. The researchers even admit that digital piracy negatively impacts the CD market. Piracy does affect music sales.

If piracy hurts CD sales but not digital sales, then that proves that what hurts CD sales is digital availability, both through legal buying and piracy. It's the appearance of a new, more convenient medium what hurts the CD sales.

Studies show that the majority of people who engage in music piracy rarely or never purchase legit copies of the music they download.

Are there studies that show whether the majority of people who engage in music piracy don't buy music because they pirate it, or don't buy music period?
I have pirated countless pop songs, the stuff you only listen to it once because it's trendy and then you forget it even existed. I buy quality editions of classical music (whose scores aren't even copyrighted, but i like to pay for a performance that deserves it).

[Pull My Finger]

Ah, the "studies". How I love those. And basically any dork out there can do one today.

This one is particularly amusing - they're telling you how if someone steals your stuff instead of buying it from you, you won't lose money over that. Genious. I'm sure it's just a matter of time until someone does some research on how the earth indeed is a disc.

[Deleted]

i get most of my music off youtube, all the music on my phone is downloaded from youtube and i dont even have any on pc because i just go through playlists on youtube :\ and i use adblock, no ones getting money from me!

[Ryme]

Ah, the "studies". How I love those. And basically any dork out there can do one today.

This one is particularly amusing - they're telling you how if someone steals your stuff instead of buying it from you, you won't lose money over that. Genious. I'm sure it's just a matter of time until someone does some research on how the earth indeed is a disc.

So, if you don't like the evidence, the evidence is wrong? What a wonderful world view.

Piracy will stop once the services keep up with today's market - the physical entertainment industry (CD/DVDs/Blueray) is dying, horribly. Let's just accept that and move on to better services, look at Spotify - now avaliable in over 50 languages, have over 2.5 million paying (10 million overall) customers in 2011 and is constantly growing.

It's not perfect, it needs competition, but it's the future the industry needs to completely embrace.

[Deleted]

I pay for spotify, not bought a cd (or dvd) in years. I generally watch a film once, very rarely do I watch them more than that, why should I pay £10 for a DVD or £7 at the cinema when most films I end up falling asleep through. If a good actor/director/trailer can persuade me the film isnt yet another average cash-in then I'll pay to see a movie at the cinema (which I do once/twice a month).

[Deleted]

If piracy hurts CD sales but not digital sales, then that proves that what hurts CD sales is digital availability, both through legal buying and piracy. It's the appearance of a new, more convenient medium what hurts the CD sales.

Are there studies that show whether the majority of people who engage in music piracy don't buy music because they pirate it, or don't buy music period?
I have pirated countless pop songs, the stuff you only listen to it once because it's trendy and then you forget it even existed. I buy quality editions of classical music (whose scores aren't even copyrighted, but i like to pay for a performance that deserves it).

It is true that legit downloads impacted on sales of CDs. But what is also true is that the ability to download an album for free via piracy harmed sales of CDs.

The overwhelming majority of studies published in peer reviewed journals have shown that piracy does cause economic harm. Some people who pirate may go on to purchase music as a result. However, those sales do not make up for sales lost due to piracy.

[Djuntas]

Isn't netflix like that?

In China you have Baidu video, which is free XD

... I guess the long arm of the RIAA doesn't reach here.

Netflix blows sadly. Atleast inn Denmark it does - Barely any good content, actual TV are better...

[Deleted]

It is true that legit downloads impacted on sales of CDs. But what is also true is that the ability to download an album for free via piracy harmed sales of CDs.

Do you think that if there was no piracy, CD lost sales would be a lot less?
I, on the other hand, think that if there had never been piracy, and instead it had always been a paid download service, the CD lost sales would be the same.

The overwhelming majority of studies published in peer reviewed journals have shown that piracy does cause economic harm. Some people who pirate may go on to purchase music as a result. However, those sales do not make up for sales lost due to piracy.

You are misunderstanding what i'm trying to say.
What is the percentage, out of the people who download pirated music, who would have bought it if free download wasn't available?
I contend that such percentage is very low. Is there research on that point?

[Deleted]

What is the percentage, out of the people who download pirated music, who would have bought it if free download wasn't available?
I contend that such percentage is very low. Is there research on that point?

What he said, I have no idea why some people, especialy the music industry equates a pirated song as a lost sale, why do they assume if a person couldn't download it for free, he would have bought it. This is just plain not true.

[Redblade]

I am a music producer and so have a vested interest in all this. This research is misleading and can be disregarded. The study focuses only on music downloads and doesn't take into account the effect of piracy on CD sales. CDs still make up the majority of global music sales. The researchers even admit that digital piracy negatively impacts the CD market. Piracy does affect music sales. Studies show that the majority of people who engage in music piracy rarely or never purchase legit copies of the music they download.

The CD is a dying format, combine the CD sales and the digital downloads and I'm quite sure your general sale numbers will surely be bigger than when there was no internet...

The once hurting by the evolution of technology right now is record companies, the middle man that is obsolete, and after years and years being abused by them I have absolutely no sympathy for them as they die a slow death.

[Deleted]

The once hurting by the evolution of technology right now is record companies, the middle man that is obsolete, and after years and years being abused by them I have absolutely no sympathy for them as they die a slow death.

Unfortunately the default position on the internet is that record labels are evil incarnate. Until we move away from such bollocks it's going to be difficult to have a decent discussion on the matter.

I don't know wtf is happening with the edit function, one of my posts just vanished

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

It MIGHT lead to less sales. But: the artists get paid fuck all from the royalties. For every dollar of royalties they might see a couple of cents, most of it goes to the music label's back pocket. Say a group gets a 100,000 dollar advance payment from a label to go make an album. The album gets released, and until it has taken 100 grant the artist gets not a single cent. By the time the advance is paid off, the album's popularity will have dropped and the money from royalties will as low as ever.

Most bands make their wage livable by performing at live events.

When the RIAA, GEMA or anybody else is concerned about money, it is THEIR money they are concerned about. The artists are their "factories". If more groups were to self-publish - easier than ever, all you need is a website, a server and a simple check-out - they'd make more money from sales and probably more money over all. The labels solely exist to print CDs (that nobody buys) and to act as promotion agents. And when they see somebody downloading stuff for free, they don't care if it is actually a lost sale. They treat it as one anyway, because then they can go to court and extort hundreds of thousands out of the guy. Which is probably 10 or 100 times the money they'd make off the track in its life-time.

[melodramocracy]

So yeah, that 'study' is more than a bit off base.

[Deleted]

Do you think that if there was no piracy, CD lost sales would be a lot less?
I, on the other hand, think that if there had never been piracy, and instead it had always been a paid download service, the CD lost sales would be the same.

You are misunderstanding what i'm trying to say.
What is the percentage, out of the people who download pirated music, who would have bought it if free download wasn't available?
I contend that such percentage is very low. Is there research on that point?

What might have happened if there'd been no piracy is entirely hypothetical.

The percentages of pirates who might have bought music if it hadn't been available for free download may be small, I don't know. But what I do know is that roughly a third of pirates never buy the music they download, and a roughly similar amount only buy once or twice. Those sales are not high enough to offset the overall sales lost due to piracy.

Also for those who think they're doing artists a favour by signing up to Spotify, think again.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

So yeah, that 'study' is more than a bit off base.

In 2000 we didn't have the opportunity to buy single tracks for 50 cents on amazon or the istore. We had to buy a "single" for 4-5 bucks, instead of the album for 15-25. The price of a single track has plummetted, of course they'll be taking less money.

[MasterHamster]

These idiots (IFPI) still think that consumers today buy things blind.
We don't.

"If a large proportion of illegal downloaders do not buy any music (and yet consume, in some cases, large amounts of it), it cannot be logical that illegal behaviour stimulates legal download sales and inflicts no harm."

Time to enter the 21st century, when sharing equals sales.

The percentages of pirates who might have bought music if it hadn't been available for free download may be small, I don't know. But what I do know is that roughly a third of pirates never buy the music they download, and a roughly similar amount only buy once or twice. Those sales are not high enough to offset the overall sales lost due to piracy.

Anyone surprised? Pirates often don't buy what they listen to or watch.
Very similar to someone who wouldn't buy an album at random, without knowing what they're getting.
This is an age of information and sharing. These lobbyist do all they can to make ridiculous claims they cannot base on anything but "well many don't purchase, so we lost money".

Never have I seen anything like the MPAA or similar recognize that someone who hasn't discovered a band wouldn't purchase anything from them either.
All the while I watch newly started bands give out songs for free in order to gain a following of potential customers and concert-attenders.