No quest info in patch notes yet means...

[Kaiarra]

It doesn't make any sense to me and that's why I think progress will move even though people don't do dailies. It would be very stupid move from blizzard to admit that the progress isn't automated.

Maybe they just assumed people would carry on doing the dailies for Valor/lesser coins (despite options to do dailies in areas without the no fly handicap) just because the area is new and shiny. /shrug

Obviously isn't working that way looking at the 30% participation I'm seeing on my server (and that's at a weekend to boot)

[Glorious Leader]

Have you done, Sha, Galleon, and Oondasta as much as you can? I agree that Rng still exists and I don't have a problem with that. If you don't like rng, you may not be playing the right game.

Yes sha and galleon. Sha gave me boots. Galleon gave me a bag of gold. I'm so glad they solved my issue of not having enough gold by giving bags of gold. Their was a stunning lack of bags full of gold in cataclysm and I'm so glad the developers moved to correct this obvious defect.

As for Oondasta I've attempted to pug it on several occasions and each was a waste of time.

Again you've just showed the lesson that the player base learned in cataclysm. Keep telling players this isn't the game for them. See how long precious RNG and precious daily quests last.

[SherbertLand]

Yes sha and galleon. Sha gave me boots. Galleon gave me a bag of gold. I'm so glad they solved my issue of not having enough gold by giving bags of gold. Their was a stunning lack of bags full of gold in cataclysm and I'm so glad the developers moved to correct this obvious defect.

As for Oondasta I've attempted to pug it on several occasions and each was a waste of time.

Again you've just showed the lesson that the player base learned in cataclysm. Keep telling players this isn't the game for them. See how long precious RNG and precious daily quests last.

Rng has been around since Vanilla. Vanilla didn't even have valor reward. You've been farming that shield for 2 months and it still hasn't dropped? No alternative.

[Lucetia]

It got easier? How? Are quests offering more rep than before?

There are about 12 dailies a day, that's a substantial amount of rep. You also can get a key from a mob (rarely), trove, rare or daily cache. Then run the Loot Scenario and get parchments you turn in for rep tokens. You can also funnel said rep tokens to other alts via BoA. There's also daily rep from a daily heroic/scenario.

It's not hard to get exalted only took me about 9 days to hit exalted doing them every day. Lot quicker than the past ones.

[Glorious Leader]

Rng has been around since Vanilla. Vanilla didn't even have valor reward. You've been farming that shield for 2 months and it still hasn't dropped? No alternative.

NO REALLY? I was not aware about vanilla. Do tell me more?

Honestly we've come to the point in the debate where you think the system from almost 10 years ago is totally fine and totally worthwhile when it's really just antiquated. You know what your right. Let's just get rid of all innovation and improvement in the game while were at it. I mean RNG has been a part of game since vanilla. So has loot lag.

[SherbertLand]

NO REALLY? I was not aware about vanilla. Do tell me more?

Honestly we've come to the point in the debate where you think the system from almost 10 years ago is totally fine and totally worthwhile when it's really just antiquated. You know what your right. Let's just get rid of all innovation and improvement in the game while were at it. I mean RNG has been a part of game since vanilla. So has loot lag.

Oh, you're allowed to have opinions but I'm not? Alright.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

NO REALLY? I was not aware about vanilla. Do tell me more?

Honestly we've come to the point in the debate where you think the system from almost 10 years ago is totally fine and totally worthwhile when it's really just antiquated. You know what your right. Let's just get rid of all innovation and improvement in the game while were at it. I mean RNG has been a part of game since vanilla. So has loot lag.

His opinion is just as valid as yours. Heck RNG is being somewhat challenged in Patch 5.3. so you may get better luck. Since you're being sarcastic I think you're running out of arguments and having a fit.

[Glorious Leader]

Oh, you're allowed to have opinions but I'm not? Alright.

Man I must be some kind of emperor or something. I denied you the ability to have an opinion without actually doing it. It's great. Call me Glorious Leader.. in fact that's not a bad idea.

All kidding aside of course you can have your own opinion, I just don't happen to agree with it especially about RNG. RNG to me doesn't make for compelling game play. It didn't in vanilla and it doesn't now. It just makes for frustration and you know what happens when theirs to much frustration.

[MoanaLisa]

I think the only thing it means is that these patch notes were released so early to get a feel on the pvp changes reaction, which is why they are so empty.

That's probably a part of it. The PVP changes are a very big experiment that I'm curious on how it's going to turn out.

It's worth mentioning that the PTR for 5.3 is due to go up very soon--just a very few days probably--so something about 5.3 was required to be published.

[Glorious Leader]

His opinion is just as valid as yours. Heck RNG is being somewhat challenged in Patch 5.3. so you may get better luck. Since you're being sarcastic I think you're running out of arguments and having a fit.

I didn't say his opinion was invalid. I think it's foolish and wrong but that's just my opinion to. That's the beauty and curse of living in ostensible free countries. You can believe what ever foolishness you like and I can't say a damn thing other than I disagree. I mean I'm sure some people were all fired up for loot lag to. Hell yea.

The only thing I saw in 5.3 was regard to bonus rolls. Which is nice, it's a good improvement but I think regular rolls need the same system as well.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Man I must be some kind of emperor or something. I denied you the ability to have an opinion without actually doing it. It's great. Call me Glorious Leader.. in fact that's not a bad idea.

All kidding aside of course you can have your own opinion, I just don't happen to agree with it especially about RNG. RNG to me doesn't make for compelling game play. It didn't in vanilla and it doesn't now. It just makes for frustration and you know what happens when theirs to much frustration.

No RNG means people gear up much faster and progression goes up super fast. Players get bored and so on and so forth. That's an extreme if there were no Raid lock outs and what not. You get the idea. RNG sadly at times is a necessary device. Now I admit they've tried making it easier for those with bad luck such as myself.

RNG is here to stay but there are other ways to make it not so soul crushing.

The only thing I saw in 5.3 was regard to bonus rolls. Which is nice, it's a good improvement but I think regular rolls need the same system as well.

I believe there was something in Dungeons with... Loot specialization.

[Glorious Leader]

No RNG means people gear up much faster and progression goes up super fast. Players get bored and so on and so forth. That's an extreme if there were no Raid lock outs and what not. You get the idea. RNG sadly at times is a necessary device. Now I admit they've tried making it easier for those with bad luck such as myself.

RNG is here to stay but there are other ways to make it not so soul crushing.




I believe there was something in Dungeons with... Loot specialization.

Which doesn't help RNG at all, all it means is that I can que as Holy and get ret gear if and when I get ret gear.

I agree no RNG is an extreme but like anything else with Blizzard the current design paradigm is also an extreme. It's always 180 degrees. Rng is currently soul crushing and instead of asking to correct it we have people insisting that it's necessary and good and we should want more or be happy with it. Well I'm not. If RNG HAS TO BE in the game (and I'm not convinced that it has to be) then it needs to be mitigated much more. The cata system of valor did this effectively and I think it should be brought back. What's wrong with having an alternative gear system?

[SherbertLand]

Which doesn't help RNG at all, all it means is that I can que as Holy and get ret gear if and when I get ret gear.

I agree no RNG is an extreme but like anything else with Blizzard the current design paradigm is also an extreme. It's always 180 degrees. Rng is currently soul crushing and instead of asking to correct it we have people insisting that it's necessary and good and we should want more or be happy with it. Well I'm not. If RNG HAS TO BE in the game (and I'm not convinced that it has to be) then it needs to be mitigated much more. The cata system of valor did this effectively and I think it should be brought back. What's wrong with having an alternative gear system?

Because one gearing system will always be superior to the other. That's how numbers work. The valor system in cata deposited a lot of people into the raiding paradigm that thought they were experienced enough to raid because they had the gear. This caused a lot of problems.

[Glorious Leader]

Because one gearing system will always be superior to the other. That's how numbers work. The valor system in cata deposited a lot of people into the raiding paradigm that thought they were experienced enough to raid because they had the gear. This caused a lot of problems.

Valor in cataclysm was not superior to what you got in raids. Hell in 4.3 you couldn't even get tier pieces. You still wanted normal gear and heroic raid gear simple became the new purples. This didn't cause a single problem to anybody other than blizzard who was caught with their pants down and had 9 months without any new content. Well that's Blizzrds problem not mine.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Because one gearing system will always be superior to the other. That's how numbers work. The valor system in cata deposited a lot of people into the raiding paradigm that thought they were experienced enough to raid because they had the gear. This caused a lot of problems.

Technically that part was due to dungeons giving access to an tier ahead as well. Now the Cata system IMO was decent but Cata did suffer from other issues.

[SherbertLand]

Valor in cataclysm was not superior to what you got in raids. Hell in 4.3 you couldn't even get tier pieces. You still wanted normal gear and heroic raid gear simple became the new purples. This didn't cause a single problem to anybody other than blizzard who was caught with their pants down and had 9 months without any new content. Well that's Blizzrds problem not mine.

You're ignoring too many perspectives. What about the 9 players in that random raid that had to wait because they recruited someone they thought was decent but just had gear they wouldn't have normally been able to get?

[Glorious Leader]

You're ignoring too many perspectives. What about the 9 players in that random raid that had to wait because they recruited someone they thought was decent but just had gear they wouldn't have normally been able to get?

No offense but if you recruited someone SOLELY on the basis of gear and Ilvl then your doing it wrong. Do you honestly use GS or ILVL as a measure? Even if you did would you take somebody to a raid and take them without a try out? Of course you try people out REGARDLESS of their ilvl. I'm sorry but that argument is ridiculous. In fact I can still make an equally ridiculous argument now. What about that 9 player raid that want's to recruit one more guy but can't find someone geared up enough for ToT?

[SherbertLand]

No offense but if you recruited someone SOLELY on the basis of gear and Ilvl then your doing it wrong. Do you honestly use GS or ILVL as a measure? Even if you did would you take somebody to a raid and take them without a try out? Of course you try people out REGARDLESS of their ilvl. I'm sorry but that argument is ridiculous. In fact I can still make an equally ridiculous argument now. What about that 9 player raid that want's to recruit one more guy but can't find someone geared up enough for ToT?

Case and point. You're using every chance you get to try and twist something into an insult. You're taking this crap too seriously.

[Vynrael]

Nothing. It means nothing. 5.3 was just announced. There's no telling what they plan on adding/adjusting/removing. Nothing is set in stone until the patch is live.

[MoanaLisa]

I sense temperatures rising a bit so I'll weigh in with my usual 'spirited debates are well and good. Just try to keep it from turning into something personal and insulting.'

Otherwise, carry on.