Congratz Blizzard on the Tier

[Deleted]

Must say blizzard has done really good with this instance ToT has proven to be a nice challenge even for the hardcore guilds.

11/12(13), and its been 1.5 week of hc progress I know for a fact at least 3 guilds have been raiding pretty much nonstop for days and days.

The numbers of wipes might even go beyond Rag hc.

Just made this post cause ppl always make bash forumthreads when something isnt working, im changing that and making one when things are
going in the other direction.

Cryings trolls dont have to reply here thx

Playing since beta

atm 1/12 hc

[Wildmoon]

I really think ToT is one of the best if not the best raid WoW ever has.

[HardCoder]

If by "best raid" you mean "too hard for pretty much everyone to finish this tier" then yep.

[Kaneiac]

I'd like to see what top raid guilds think of it. Sha of Fear Heroic was pretty tough, but a lot of people said he wasn't really much fun.

How have the Heroic fights been? Actually interesting? Or boring/tedious, but difficult?

[ViciousOtter]

So is "fun" raid defined by many, many, many, many attempts to kill a boss on heroic??

I thought the fun part was supposed to be killing bosses with your guildmates and having a blast doing it. That's how it was for me anyways. I was never server first or anything, but I still had fun in raids

[Mad_Murdock]

If by "best raid" you mean "too hard for pretty much everyone to finish this tier" then yep.

It's interesting to say the least. When you get past heroic Garalon you're talking less than 15% of the raiding population, 1.4% for Heroic Sha. I guess Blizzard might be taking a gamble and seeing how hardcore they can keep the raiding with LFR there to fill in for those that don't enjoy spending 50+ wipes per boss crowd. Though with a good chuck of the LFRs wiping on almost every boss it's nice to see they made it so go AFK won't = easy loot, at the same time is that going to burn people out. If we see another 900K sub loss, I suspect the nerf hammer will be swinging hard.

[Pedoso]

So is "fun" raid defined by many, many, many, many attempts to kill a boss on heroic??

I thought the fun part was supposed to be killing bosses with your guildmates and having a blast doing it. That's how it was for me anyways. I was never server first or anything, but I still had fun in raids

While killing bosses with guildmates is where the majority of fun comes from, encounters will always have a differing amounts of fun associated with them. For example, when my guild killed Lei Shi last tier, it was happy with the fact that the boss was finally dead, because that boss WAS NOT FUN. In no way was that a fun boss for me. But then you have bosses like Vizier, when we killed it I was really happy because it felt like we accomplished something by killing the boss, and the encounter in general was my favorite heroic fight of last tier, because the mechanics were fun for me.

[SaltLakeAtrocity]

If by "best raid" you mean "too hard for pretty much everyone to finish this tier" then yep.

finishing a tier completely is not, and never should be, an 'expectation'. that's how you get disgusting dungeons like firelands, ToC, and dragon soul that are just a waste of time and waste of subscription. If you know that finishing it is going to be possible no matter what, there's no risk factor. There's no goal, no incentive to push for that extra mile. That drive is the only thing that really makes raiding fun.

[Marxman]

I'd like to see what top raid guilds think of it. Sha of Fear Heroic was pretty tough, but a lot of people said he wasn't really much fun.

H Sha of Fear really wasn't that difficult. It was just 10 minutes of absolute mind-numbing boredom followed by 10 minutes of actual challenge. The fight would have been 10 times more fun and more challenging if that final phase was the whole fight, and it was tuned accordingly. It took fewer attempts than H Spirit Kings (pre-nerf) or H Protectors for us. The problem was each wipe took 15+ minutes because of that god awful first phase.

I've been fairly impressed with ToT so far, currently 2/13 Heroic. My only gripes are the ridiculous amounts of trash between Jin'Rokh and Horridon, and between Horridon and Council. The trash takes longer than the bosses by a considerable margin.

[HardCoder]

finishing a tier completely is not, and never should be, an 'expectation'. that's how you get disgusting dungeons like firelands, ToC, and dragon soul that are just a waste of time and waste of subscription. If you know that finishing it is going to be possible no matter what, there's no risk factor. There's no goal, no incentive to push for that extra mile. That drive is the only thing that really makes raiding fun.

Normal appears to be at the low end of what was previously heroic difficulty. I think that is going to turn out to be a bad tuning decision.

At this point, 2/3 of raiding guilds have only 4 normal bosses down.

[Ashvael]

I'd like to see what top raid guilds think of it. Sha of Fear Heroic was pretty tough, but a lot of people said he wasn't really much fun.

How have the Heroic fights been? Actually interesting? Or boring/tedious, but difficult?

Except for the RNG fest which Twins was (also the complete nerf overkill, should have done MAX 5% if at all), the fights were amazing. Lei Shen is an incredible fight on heroic as well.

[HardCoder]

The problem was each wipe took 15+ minutes because of that god awful first phase.

Shades of Madness LFR where you just knew you were going to wipe on the next to last platform the first time with most groups because "TARGET THE BLISTERING TENTACLES" didn't sink in.

[Banzubie]

My guild is currently 9/12 on normal and we are having a blast. My only gripe so far is that a lot of the trash is a pain in the ass to do. Id be quite happy if they cut back on all the trash between council and ji-kun.

[KidCanuck]

I don't enjoy the bridge before Horridon (other than the mandatory few lifegrips into the blue beam kills), but otherwise very fun so far.

[SaltLakeAtrocity]

Normal appears to be at the low end of what was previously heroic difficulty. I think that is going to turn out to be a bad tuning decision.

At this point, 2/3 of raiding guilds have only 4 normal bosses down.

I'm not trying pidgeon-hole you based on little information, and please correct me without getting the wrong idea if what i say is untrue.

But that sounds like something someone would say who had Dragon Soul define their expectation of heroic content. The first 6 heroic bosses in that instance are not heroic bosses by any definition of the difficulty. They were zergable by a couple attempts each, even way before any of the nerfs. The last two were entry-level heroic bosses with base-line performance requirements, but other than that even those two fights lacked any real coordination-based mechanics that heroic fights are generally defined by. Disgusting examples of how heroic raiding should NOT be. That is, heroic bosses being tuned like normal bosses and normal being pretty much raid finder with 10 people instead of 25 and higher ilvl gear pinatas.

And I'm honestly not a hardcore raiding elitist or world-firster myself by any means whatsoever. I raid 7 and a half hours a week maximum. I don't expect to finish this tier on heroic completely, but I'm fine with that. It gives me something to work towards, a challenge to see how many of the fights I can complete before tier's end. THAT is what heroic raiding should be like.

Normal mode should still be a progressive ladder to climb. It should involve many wipes on later bosses before you get that rush that precedes a kill. It should involve some level of accomplishment. And then heroic content involve an even higher level of accomplishment.

[Mad_Murdock]

finishing a tier completely is not, and never should be, an 'expectation'. that's how you get disgusting dungeons like firelands, ToC, and dragon soul that are just a waste of time and waste of subscription. If you know that finishing it is going to be possible no matter what, there's no risk factor. There's no goal, no incentive to push for that extra mile. That drive is the only thing that really makes raiding fun.

I dare to say that you belief is not a majority view. What motivation does anyone have to try if the answer is, odds are 75% against you that you'll complete this tier while it's current. Sure If you're looking to be a part of the upper 25% and that's how you get your joy from a video game, then it's a great model. For those looking for something less tedious and stressful, then telling them "You're probably not good enough to play this game" will not be motivation to keep paying to play.

[Kakera]

ITT: Good players love the raid because it actually is a fun, engaging, challenging, unique raid tier. Bad players hate it because they suck. More news at 11.

[Deleted]

It is really a nice raid , encounters are pretty fun and it got a nice visual aspect. The unique disappointement is the musical aspect , musics are really far far away from Ulduar for me.

[Shiira]

What motivation does anyone have to try if the answer is, odds are 75% against you that you'll complete this tier while it's current.

This is why we have multiple difficulty settings.

Some of us just want to see the bosses in lfr, some of us want to raid normals with an organised group, and some of us want to push our performance to the limit in heroics.

[Squirl]

They just cranked up the numbers on H Lei Shen to silly levels; that's the only way to stop the best guilds. Yeah, it's a great tier, but not because the best guilds in the world can't kill the last boss week 1.

I'm only 3 heroics in so far, but we've only had a few nights of progression so far (half our raid core vacationing in Narnia); however, even the normal modes have been fun and more difficult than the previous tier's normals. Horridon and Council are just clusterfucks, but the heroics after them look really good.