Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    8,380
    I see how the usual suspects come in here and derail this topic, so please stop doing that if you're not actually interested in discussing the linked article.

  2. #42
    The Insane
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Where Thrall and the Horde needs me to be
    Posts
    15,947
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    I see how the usual suspects come in here and derail this topic, so please stop doing that if you're not actually interested in discussing the linked article.
    Yeah because when people come in your threads, tell you that you are wrong then obviously they are derailing your little crusade....


    Still not an article.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  3. #43
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Burt Reynolds' stache
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Thats the thing. Horde is holding their story back.

    Every time I see forsaken NPC with horde tabard, it looks out of place.
    But for better or worse, that has a reason. The forsaken can't stand by their own, they just can't; regardless of their true desires, be those as they may, inscrutable to the rest. Beacuse the moment, the moment they leave the horde and start following an agenda that could be considered a threat for the other races, alliance and horde alike, war against them WILL erupt, everybody that wants them gone will jump in the bandwagon and they will just be crushed by numbers.

    So they just can't leave the horde as much as they could want. It would be suicide.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-26 at 09:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    I see how the usual suspects come in here and derail this topic, so please stop doing that if you're not actually interested in discussing the linked article.
    What do you want for us? not to tell you that the "article" is nothing but self righteous, bias ridden, propagandistic hogwash disguised as an essay? Don't get me wrong, it works as such, this is what you'd see on the streets of Stormwind and other alliance cities, but you can't possible believe that we just eat this up as anything but.
    Last edited by TheDangerZone; 2013-03-26 at 09:35 AM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Still not an article.
    You have an oddly restrictive definition of the term 'article'.

  5. #45
    The Insane
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Where Thrall and the Horde needs me to be
    Posts
    15,947
    Quote Originally Posted by iscalio View Post
    You have an oddly restrictive definition of the term 'article'.
    It's a blog really, a page from an internet diary more or less. And while it can be compared to an article, it's no where near as solid as the OP wants it to be. Not to mention that it's written through the eyes of a person who is pseudo-rp'ing as both a tauren and a Brujah vampire.
    Last edited by Venziir; 2013-03-26 at 09:40 AM.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  6. #46
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Burt Reynolds' stache
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    It's a blog really, a page from an internet diary more or less. And while it can be compared to an article, it's no where near as solid as the OP wants it to be.
    Well, there's the whole subjectivity thing; columns and commentaries can editorialize as much as they want, but with an article you expect to be informed, unbiasedly so, not subjected to someones opinion, regardless of validity.

  7. #47
    The Insane
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Where Thrall and the Horde needs me to be
    Posts
    15,947
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Well, there's the whole subjectivity thing; columns and commentaries can editorialize as much as they want, but with an article you expect to be informed, unbiasedly so, not subjected to someones opinion, regardless of validity.
    Exactly, this "article" here might as well be from a "How To Be a Witch Hunter 101" guide.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    But for better or worse, that has a reason. The forsaken can't stand by their own, they just can't; regardless of their true desires, be those as they may, inscrutable to the rest. Beacuse the moment, the moment they leave the horde and start following an agenda that could be considered a threat for the other races, alliance and horde alike, war against them WILL erupt, everybody that wants them gone will jump in the bandwagon and they will just be crushed by numbers.

    So they just can't leave the horde as much as they could want. It would be suicide.
    Thats why they need to be more active with acquirement of certain technology and their brains must stop dealing with half-effective bioweapons.

  9. #49
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Burt Reynolds' stache
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Thats why they need to be more active with acquirement of certain technology and their brains must stop dealing with half-effective bioweapons.
    That's why I keep saying! get your rotten hands on that Mogu/Titan technology that seems to just be lying around in Pandaria, people!. Cure the plight of your people and seek a modicum of redemption, or build deterrents to do whateva, whateva you want, but do something!

    Though either path is warranted of hesitation, I do hope they just don't stagnate and just be there.

  10. #50
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    3,056
    Quote Originally Posted by iscalio View Post
    They are however responsible for what they are doing now, and saying "hey, we've been abandoned anyway, so fuck it" is a bad justification. Leonid the Revered is a good example that not all Forsaken view themselves as being abandoned by the light, by the way. Redemption is a certainly an available path for them.
    The thing is, we know that the process of reanimation affects their psyche. Those who maintain a connection to the Light are excedingly rare.

    And again, you have to question whether the morality of the living can really be applied to them. For one, their comprehension of reality is different from the living. For them, the nature of life and death is completely different from a living being. They do not view death as an end, and life is generally an alien experience to them.

    The Forsaken have not been particularily conquest-minded. They maintained peaceful borders with the blood elves, and drew them into the Horde eventually. They maintain loyalty to the Horde about as well as any other race. They skirmish and war with the Alliance, but so do all the Horde races, and unlike the orcs the Forsaken haven't tried to conquer the world; they've done little more than maintain their borders against Alliance incursions, with the exception of Gilneas.

    And if they are bent on conquest, ultimately, what will that look like? Well, probably not genocide. Conversion, most likely. A world united in undeath, I think that's the dream.

    Is that moral? Probably not, at least by our standards. But the Forsaken are incapable of applying the same sort of morals that we do.

    And what's the alternative, if their very nature is immoral? To give up and die because the living tell them to? That's against the nature of any living creature. So they fight, and survive, and try to establish their own place in the world.

  11. #51
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Burt Reynolds' stache
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Exactly, this "article" here might as well be from a "How To Be a Witch Hunter 101" guide.
    I really don't take issue with the essay itself because it's a piece of opinion and as such is totes valid -as well as subjective to derision and dissension-; but I'm entirely baffled of how someone can pretend to use it as argumentative "evidence"; more so to an issue that is all about subjective morality and thusly unresolvable at ant rate. I mean, totally pointless, as the countless threads that pave this road.

  12. #52
    The Insane
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Where Thrall and the Horde needs me to be
    Posts
    15,947
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    I really don't take issue with the essay itself because it's a piece of opinion and as such is totes valid -as well as subjective to derision and dissension-; but I'm entirely baffled of how someone can pretend to use it as argumentative "evidence"; more so to an issue that is all about subjective morality and thusly unresolvable at ant rate. I mean, totally pointless, as the countless threads that pave this road.
    Exactly, that's indeed the main issue.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  13. #53
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    3,056
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    That's why I keep saying! get your rotten hands on that Mogu/Titan technology that seems to just be lying around in Pandaria, people!. Cure the plight of your people and seek a modicum of redemption, or build deterrents to do whateva, whateva you want, but do something!

    Though either path is warranted of hesitation, I do hope they just don't stagnate and just be there.
    It really is a shame that we haven't had any story beats about the Forsaken researching flesh shaping and soul binding yet. The dwarves and gnomes should be pretty intrigued, too, and the night elves should probably have an overt interest in understanding the sacred waters of the Vale.

    I don't know how much longer we've got before the narrative completely leaves Pandaria, so I do hope they take advantage of some of these opportunities to push some of the racial storylines forward, or at least build them up a bit.

  14. #54
    Scarab Lord Sky High's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    SO-CALI
    Posts
    4,840
    the "Sylvanis fans" why she is so popular is that she is the only dark/anti-hero/psudo-villianess that gets to be a leader and not a raid boss, well unless your alliance anyway. as for the forsaken themselves to say they aren't fucked up on a emotional/psychological level from the get go is disingenuous. they had to suffer, die, rise up and kill everything they loved or cared for. then only to be released and come to the realization of what they did and what they had become. now, to say that didn't drive some to try and do what is right by others as means of penance is not out of the question. but a lot more either went mad, or simply owned up to it and do what they in their minds is right. i can't really speak on what goes on in the mind of a forsaken other then being undead seems to make them (for the most part) lose empathy/sympathy and not care for their actions seeing as they don't really give a shit about the ultimate consequences, they have seen the face of hell and it has like i said, it fucked them up.

    at this point you really can't judge them based on OUR set morality. not to say that what they do isn't fucked up, it is. the argument (not really an argument but ranting) i keep hearing from alliance fan boys is always: its our land! they should all fuck off or die and let us have it back. well who was their first jackass? THEM, they lived their thats their homes and cities they grew up in before they got turned. by all rights and accounts they belong there and get to stay there. the forsaken of Lorderon where the citizens of Lorderon BEFORE the scourge. so every, oh its the alliance' land bullshit pisses me off.

    i would however like to see a change in pace with them seeing IF they are to join the army of light they need to drop Silvanis in leu of a leader who is.....slightly more inclined to be altruistically good....Lillian Voss? i sure a shit hope so, she's awesome.

  15. #55
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Burt Reynolds' stache
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    It really is a shame that we haven't had any story beats about the Forsaken researching flesh shaping and soul binding yet. The dwarves and gnomes should be pretty intrigued, too, and the night elves should probably have an overt interest in understanding the sacred waters of the Vale.

    I don't know how much longer we've got before the narrative completely leaves Pandaria, so I do hope they take advantage of some of these opportunities to push some of the racial storylines forward, or at least build them up a bit.
    Well, at least there's the opportunity for these advancements to be "shelved" for later revisiting. An expansion has time constraints to develop all races, so pushing the desire of forsaken, dwarves, gnomes and other races to study/control mogu technology and magic to the next expansion might not be the worst idea as long as it is part of an expansion long focus placed on said narrative; it would be more neat than just throwing things on without a frame. Also, it would make Pandaria relevant on a successive expansion.

  16. #56
    Scarab Lord Sky High's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    SO-CALI
    Posts
    4,840
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    He is trying to convince others not to play them.

    Little does he know that by painting them without morale or empathy, they will atract other type of players.
    I find their evilness.... charming.

  17. #57
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    4,469
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    VE ARE NIHILISTS
    VE CARE ABOUT NOTHINK
    Nothink. Und tomorrow ve come back und ve cut off your johnson, Combootiwski.
    I love you.
    This referential humor really ties the forum together.

    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

  18. #58
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    8,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    This referential humor really ties the forum together.
    It will eventually save the world.

  19. #59
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    5,167
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    In case it should be true, it's even more of a crime that they turn other into undead.
    The thing is that there has been no confirmation of it being the case. Being Undead does not automatically mean they will go to this "void" when they die. If people can't factually say that's what happens then it's people just making stuff up.
    We're also aware that the Light has not abandoned them. But that they have been corrupted in a manner that makes them physically vulnerable to it. This combined with the fact many abandoned it as a deity as they felt it had abandoned them as a people when Arthas showed up is why many shun it, not because it shuns them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Maybe Lilian Voss could be a character that brings that change and even opposes Sylvanas as a leader.
    I'm surprised we haven't seen her sooner. Although I admit I found her actions in MoP somewhat odd. She goes after Gandling and the Cult because she hates necromancers and their actions. Yet we haven't seen her go after Sylvanas at all yet. The person who had her risen from the dead should be her #1 priority, but it isn't.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I'm surprised we haven't seen her sooner. Although I admit I found her actions in MoP somewhat odd. She goes after Gandling and the Cult because she hates necromancers and their actions. Yet we haven't seen her go after Sylvanas at all yet. The person who had her risen from the dead should be her #1 priority, but it isn't.
    There is raising, and then there is raising. Maybe she sees raising with free will as lesser evil.

    And what chance would she have against entire faction. Remnants of the scourge are much weaker target.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •