Elemental Ascendance: When to Lava Beam?

[LowlandProudmoore]

I'm having difficulty figuring out how many mobs need to be cleaved in order to make using Lava Beam over Lava Burst worthwhile. If only two or three targets are present, is it a bigger DPS increase to lava beam those 2-3 targets, or to just spam Lava Burst on a single target?

Any insight would be appreciated.

[Roboctopus]

Hard to say on that fight especially because the easiest way to do it is to burn down Sul. If your group is doing so, you should probably just Lava Burst Sul to death.

[kvanslam]

I'd like to second what Xeonde said. It's very helpful to burst Sul down, even before he can get off his first sandstorm (if you're 2 healing). Just don't go ascendance crazy on Kazra'jin or you might kill yourself. Once Sul is down, you can probably lava beam because from that point on the fight is basically over.

[LowlandProudmoore]

Ok, fair enough point about bursting Sul down. I've edited the original post though, because I'd like the question considered outside the context of Council. How many cleave targets are needed for Lava Beam to out-DPS Lava Burst spam?

[EruptorNZ]

Fairly certain that Ascendance is a more of a single target dps increase than an aoe dps increase eg. chain lightning already hits hard for aoe, the increased effect doesn't add as much.

Lava beam during Ascendance should really only be used for times when you need to burst AoE targets down.

[kaikoraimi]

Fairly certain that Ascendance is a more of a single target dps increase than an aoe dps increase eg. chain lightning already hits hard for aoe, the increased effect doesn't add as much.

Lava beam during Ascendance should really only be used for times when you need to burst AoE targets down.

Yep. Lava beam makes CL hit about 20% harder, total, on 5 targets. Lava beam has been useful on a loose pack of bats on Tortos and the occasional "Oops I pulled 8, not 3" while running about in the wider world. As far as I know, LvB spam normally produces better dps during ascendance than lava beam does.

[Ryethe]

So is 5 the official breakpoint to CL spam vs LvB spam with Ascendance up?

[Kantoro]

Honestly, worrying about topping the meters is bad. Tip, stop worrying about topping the meters and do what makes the encounter go better. If Sul needs to go down 1st, which do you think is better...

[Judic]

Lava Beam on fights like the 4th boss of HoF is great. Spikes my DPS up to 300k when chain lightning only gets me to 180ish. When I get home I can try chaining the group of 4 dummies in Org and seeing which one is better. I know dummy tests arent the best but it at least helps a little.

[CHRONICGODX]

i dont use lava beam on principle. it doesnt look as cool as chain lightning. debate settled.

[kaikoraimi]

So is 5 the official breakpoint to CL spam vs LvB spam with Ascendance up?

Lava Beam increases by 10% with each jump (source) (note that the tooltips haven't been updated on live). So, if CL hits 5 targets for 5x damage, Lava Beam would hit them for 6.1051x damage. If CL hits four targets for 4x damage, Lava Beam would hit them for 4.641x damage. Therefore, Lava Beam is best when you will have five or more targets for the full duration of Ascendance.

Mathing out the comparison between Lava Beaming five targets and Lava Bursting one gets rather complicated, diving into the realms of probability and expected values (fortunately, haste is not involved: the cast times are the same for elem). Some quick napkin math and anecdotal experience suggests that Lava Beaming five does more damage than Lava Bursting one. (It may sometimes be the case that Lava Beaming four targets also pulls ahead of Lava Bursting one, but that is very reliant on your values for crit & mastery.)

[Recom]

Using Ascendance to aoe is most of the time a waste and not useful to beat the encounter. That said there are 2 fights were it's beneficial to the raid (not only to your damage meter) : Horridon on 2nd, 3rd or 4th door and Tortos on bats (I'm talking about hm here, it shouldn't be a problem in nm) and maybe Durumu for the walls but I doubt it.

Also you shouldn't use Lava Beam if there is less than 5 targets.

[felix014]

I only use it on trash

[Deleted]

Lava Beam seems to be worth it for 5 targets. I average around 250k per 5 lava beam hit with no mastery or crit but I average around 160k with chain lightning same criteria.
Is it me or does chain lightning seem to proc a lot more on mastery than lava beam?

Overall imo, Ascendance is your single target cooldown unless you want to cheese the meters.

[houndstooth]

Using Ascendance to aoe is most of the time a waste and not useful to beat the encounter. That said there are 2 fights were it's beneficial to the raid (not only to your damage meter) : Horridon on 2nd, 3rd or 4th door and Tortos on bats (I'm talking about hm here, it shouldn't be a problem in nm) and maybe Durumu for the walls but I doubt it.

Also you shouldn't use Lava Beam if there is less than 5 targets.

I agree with this. There are encounters were AOE can be useful, but I can't think of any encounter where 200-400k single target DPS isn't MORE useful. Single target DPS is king. Lava beam can be a blast for trash or humping meters, but I rarely find it's more useful than bursting down a single mob.