Big Bang Potentially Wrong. Galaxy that Shouldn't Exist.

[Theodon]

where did you get this strange notion that people are created equal?

I was rereading that to see if there was some misinterpretation on my part. People are definitely not created equally. not only do birth defects occur in individuals, but families bearing those children provide advantages or disadvantages, or the hundreds of other things.

The galaxy in the youtube video doesn't seem to disprove the big bang theory from what I have read, but merely make astronomers question their understanding on what sort of galaxies could exist during the early periods of the universe. The spiral shape for a galaxy that old wasn't thought possible because of the chaotic nature of the universe back then (lots of galaxies crashing in to each other and black holes growing very fast) but there is a small dwarf galaxy nearby that possibly gave it the spiral shape it has now, much in the way Sagittarius may have provided ours with that shape too.

http://www.space.com/16641-oldest-sp...telescope.html

[zorkuus]

Anyone that thinks we could have any real idea as to how the universe came into existance when we have barely even gotten off our own planet needs to rethink things. I mean there is nothing wrong with having Theories about it, but to take it as a fact is just wrong.

In science theories are more important than facts. A fact is merely an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed. A theory is there to explain what that observation means.

[Kalis]

We will never know the answer to this million dollar question until we're dead. Believe what you want people need to stop trying to discredit the beliefs of others and move on.

When you're dead you will never know the answer to anything, let alone everything.

[Dundebuns]

If you believe that the Big Bang was the creator of all Nature and forces. Gravity, space and time. Then within the boundaries of the Big Bang resides Time. That being said, for some odd reason (and maybe to our own salvation) we believe that the Human existence is an AFTER affect of the Big Bang. That it "happened" awhile back, oh say 100000000 million years ago and we're this GREAT and GRAND end result of such.

The four forces that you are familiar with, Gravity, Weak, Strong and Electromagnetic, did not exist in their current form until some time after the Big Bang occurred. It is thought that one force existed for a time, until the energy in the Universe could spread out a bit, and objects like Protons and Electrons could exist. Space and Time are man made constructs that help us to understand what we observe around us (they need to be 'removed' to be able to conceptualise Quantum Gravity, the unification of Relativity and Quantum mechanics, for example)

But, having a closed mind and following scientific religion without doubt is fun too. There are a lot of leaps of faith that scientific communities take for granted, and not saying they are wrong or right ... there is inherently an echo chamber in humanity; and those who voice things outside of it, are usually looked at as heretics.

There is no such thing as scientific religion, at least not amojng proper scientists. It might exist about the general public who have never had the opportunity to observe that which they may take for granted. Science functions, albeit this is a basic description, thusly. We make a guess, we try to prove said guess, we change our guess depending on what we observe. There is no inherent belief, because we attempt to prove what we guess at. Religion takes a guess, and then sets it in stone without further investigation.

Anyway, the whole thread is hyperbole. So an odd galaxy is found. Theory will be adjusted, and we will continue to do Science.

[s_bushido]

Anyone that thinks we could have any real idea as to how the universe came into existance when we have barely even gotten off our own planet needs to rethink things. I mean there is nothing wrong with having Theories about it, but to take it as a fact is just wrong.

Ridiculous. I don't have to know how to make a phaser to know the physics behind a lightning strike.

[Darkrulerxxx]

Theories get modified over time with improved observations and understanding. You're not going to dismantle such a well-supported cosmological model by stamping your feet and crying foul over such a small mismatch (and particularly when other explanations still may account for the discrepancy). I get the impression from these last couple of posts that you have a rather twisted view of cosmology.

Not at all, if you read that last post i did say further research is required. I guess you forget the days when everybody was absolutely convinced that the world was flat and all the theories saying it wasn't was thrown away as blasphemy. All i am saying is that it's nice that we have the Big Bang theory, but its not the true answer to the universe we see now, it's only what we understand currently.

[NineSpine]

Not at all, if you read that last post i did say further research is required. I guess you forget the days when everybody was absolutely convinced that the world was flat and all the theories saying it wasn't was thrown away as blasphemy. All i am saying is that it's nice that we have the Big Bang theory, but its not the true answer to the universe we see now, it's only what we understand currently.

That never happened. People have basically always known the world isn't flat.

[Tychus]

they so firmly tout that this must be the answer

No. It has nothing to do with "must". It is simply "currently the best" answer.

we only currently understand 5% of the universe

This handwavy non-information doesn't actually mean anything useful or practical. Pseudo-quantification.

they sweep it under the rug to continue propagating...

People don't seem to understand the magnitude of evidence, both direct and indirect, for the big bang. It's one of the best supported theories, if not the best.

You're suggestion is like saying that, by finding a rough stone in a riverbed, it "calls into question" everything we know about rivers, water, stones, friction and everything else that goes into making smooth riverbed stones. In reality that's a bit extreme, especially when there exist possibilities for how it came to be there.

Every scientist, young and old, knows that by overturning something well established (such as the big bang, for example) they'll become legends of science and potentially rich and widely famous. Hell, that's why half of these crackpots are out there. There really is no incentive to propagate anthing in particular.

...that needs to be desperately updated

Some people also seem to think the big bang theory hasn't changed since it's initial development. In reality, many aspects have been revised over the years.

[Darkrulerxxx]

That never happened. People have basically always known the world isn't flat.

Please don't post nonsense without actually knowing what your saying. The general consensus was that the world was flat, save from the astronomers and scientists at that time that didn't believe that and religion played a large part in silencing these scientists.

[NineSpine]

Please don't post nonsense without actually knowing what your saying. The general consensus was that the world was flat, save from the astronomers and scientists at that time that didn't believe that and religion played a large part in silencing these scientists.

"Please don't post nonsense without actually knowing what your saying. "

Right back atchya buddy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

[Adam Jensen]

So, they use a theory to determine the age of this galaxy? In other words, they are merely guessing that age? They are assuming the galaxies age, and you know what the word assume means don't you?

That's not what the word "theory" means in science.

Page has to do with evolution, but it describes what a scientific theory is: http://www.notjustatheory.com/

[Redmage]

I don't believe the universe simply came into existence 13.7 billion years ago, I believe the universe has always existed.

I think the matter that makes up the universe has always existed. I think the Big Bang theory is an excellent theory for explaining how that matter got arranged in the way it did to create what we see as the observable universe.

Even if this video is true (which I don't think it is, crappy youtube videos aren't great sources) all it does for me is confirm the suspicion I have had that the big bang wasn't a one time event.

[Sayl]

Not at all, if you read that last post i did say further research is required.

Paying special attention to what you typed, you accused cosmologists of hiding problems to tweak a theory (which you think needs more special attention than it's received, if not complete replacement). I'm sure we can all read what you wrote, and your statement is not as innocuous as you're now pretending.

I guess you forget the days when everybody was absolutely convinced that the world was flat and all the theories saying it wasn't was thrown away as blasphemy.

I wish people stop would stop throwing around the Flat Earth myth as if it were an argument. The Earth was known to be spherical in classical antiquity. You're just confusing that with early resistance to the heliocentric model of the solar system. That you're unable to recognize the difference is telling.

All i am saying is that it's nice that we have the Big Bang theory, but its not the true answer to the universe we see now, it's only what we understand currently.

What you're saying is misguided, and I'm quite skeptical of your comprehension.

[NineSpine]

I think the matter that make up the universe has always existed. I think the Big Bang theory is an excellent theory for explaining how that matter got arranged in the way it did to create what we see as the observable universe.

Even if this video is true (which I don't think it is, crappy youtube videos aren't great sources) all it does for me is confirm the suspicion I have had that the big bang wasn't a one time event.

Suspicion? That's a pretty common theory that scientists have worked with for decades.

[The King in Yellow]

"Please don't post nonsense without actually knowing what your saying. "

Right back atchya buddy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

This, even the Egyptians knew the world was round.... and the Babylonians, etc.

And this study is quite interesting, I wonder where it will go.

[Darkrulerxxx]

"Please don't post nonsense without actually knowing what your saying. "

Right back atchya buddy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

Since we are posting wikipedia. Here you go

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

[Adam Jensen]

still primarily an educated guess based on their understanding of the information they use to come to their conclusions, which as humans, have nearly a zero chance of being completely unbiased by how the individual interprets information based on past experiences and learning techniques usually also influenced by the ones that helped teach or those they idolized/looked up to and/or inspired them to get into the fields of study in the first place.

It is basically called paradigms; and throughout history, ours shift, sometimes on grand scales ... such as 'world is flat' 'earth is center of everything' ... and I'm sure a lot of things people assume today, will be turned on its head or completely rewritten in the future as our understandings change and our ability to conceptualize things expand.

But, having a closed mind and following scientific religion without doubt is fun too. There are a lot of leaps of faith that scientific communities take for granted, and not saying they are wrong or right ... there is inherently an echo chamber in humanity; and those who voice things outside of it, are usually looked at as heretics.

Not saying anything about this guy and his video, just the general openness to outside theories, and needing a more generalized questioning of the status quo would be good for us to always continue to move forward, because if you look in a box so deep you bury your head in it, you can't see what is outside of it.

Science is not a fucking religion. It is based on logic and empirical evidence. Doubt and skepticism is a major keystone to scientific thinking. Questioning and criticising your peers is a major part of developing any theory. That's the whole basis of the peer review system. However, ideas with little to no evidence are tossed aside until stronger evidence is found.

[Sycantha]

The Big Bang theory is 'wrong' and it's no news. In fact, a lot of our theories for a lot of things are 'wrong'. Like how our laws of physics break down at the quantum level; thus demonstrating inconsistency or inaccuracy. The Universe (and most everything in it) is currently just too far out of our reach of understanding. Science should provide a relief for that insurmountable feeling of insignificance we should all feel when contemplating the vastness (in every meaning of the word) of the Universe; but to some, it's interpreted as law or just completely ignored.
On an abstractly related topic and thinking broadly, how cool would it be if 'Cthulhu' is the universe we live in?

[Aleksej89]

Omg yu nubs, g0dz created everytingz!

Jokes aside, theory is just theory - don't break your head over it unless you are the mumbo jumbo scientist who's job that is

[Adam Jensen]

Unless they were there when it began, they are only guessing. Yes, it is the best estimate to date, but it is still merely a guess.

You don't have to be there. We know from observation the universe is expanding. We know the mathematics behind this expansion. It is a matter of working backwards using what we already know.