Doors open to flat out Transgender discrimination laws in AZ

[Kelesti]

Arizona Senate Bill 1045 was recently called the "Bathroom bill" and would require an individual to be using the bathroom of their birth certificate or face a $2500 fine and six months in jail, being fronted by Rep. John Kavanagh, who has gone on record with statements referring to "so-called transgender people" as "weird" and equating them to "predators who are coming after the women and children."


So now it's been rewritten, openly targetting Pheonix's equality ordinance. It seems that requiring papers to see a bathroom is uncool, so instead it's now just perfectly okay for businesses (both public and private) to openly allow anyone to discriminate against a trans person for employement, housing, public accomodation, access to the business itself, and offers absolutely no legal recourse in the State of Arizona.

And this has passed with a vote of 7-4 as of tonight.
Huffington Post coverage because you won't really find it anywhere else, including any support from the HRC.

[Uennie]

Tell me again, what fucking good those red equal logos are for again? No, go ahead, tell me.

Because:

Because it's a symbol and coming down on a symbol (which is silly) is the same thing as coming down on the rainbow flag or the pink triangle?

They do the people who believe in them a whole lot of good. That's the point of symbols, no matter where they originate from.

On the rest of the topic that's pretty fucked up.

And on that note I bid thee adieu!

[Lysah]

Heteronormativity exists even within the LGBT community, I'm not too surprised that this sort of thing happens. If society is going to make baby steps toward gay rights someone else has to be the whipping boy, in so few words.

[Mormolyce]

Well this ruling seems excessively harsh and the guy sure sounds like an ass, but I can understand why transsexuals using the bathroom of their trans-gender rather than cis- is a contentious issue. I can also understand how it would be upsetting for transsexuals to be refused access to the bathroom they identify with. I don't really see a clear answer to the issue.

This was in Arizona was it? Anyone know what the existing penalty is for using the wrong gendered toilet in Arizona? Is there one?

[Kelesti]

Because:



They do the people who believe in them a whole lot of good. That's the point of symbols, no matter where they originate from.

On the rest of the topic that's pretty fucked up.

And on that note I bid thee adieu!

A symbol originating from a group that picks and chooses who it deems "equal" means the group is shitty, and so is the symbol from them.

[Uennie]

A symbol originating from a group that picks and chooses who it deems "equal" means the group is shitty, and so is the symbol from them.

It still means something to them, which was my point. Aside from which, that symbol has evolved completely out of their control at this point. No matter what they say, millions of people view it the way it (in my opinion) should be. That's a positive thing. Thousands of transgender individuals are using it as we speak, so it has already changed. I guarantee you the response to this will be "Fuck you, equal means equal, and it'll mean what it means to me". I mean they're already doing that, they don't care, they have claimed that symbol and there's nothing that organization can do to get it back.

[Kelesti]

Well this ruling seems excessively harsh and the guy sure sounds like an ass, but I can understand why transsexuals using the bathroom of their trans-gender rather than cis- is a contentious issue. I can also understand how it would be upsetting for transsexuals to be refused access to the bathroom they identify with. I don't really see a clear answer to the issue.

This was in Arizona was it? Anyone know what the existing penalty is for using the wrong gendered toilet in Arizona? Is there one?

Clear answer is "They're segregated stalls". I don't know about you, but generally speaking, I've yet to see anyone walk out of a non-residential bathroom with their pants around their ankles/off. You know, throwing that out there.

The whole risk thing? What do laws like this actually change that they're necessary? Already doing so would count as exposing oneself (which is already an offense), creating a disturbance (which is already an offense), exposing oneself to a minor (a much more severe offense) as well as some potential sexual assault related charges pending on possible legalities of the jurisdiction. Adding another one to specifically target trans people, and using "children" as some bastion of defense is politically endorsed bigotry.


Every single case involving violence and a trans person in a bathroom have put the trans person as the victim of that offense, not the perpetrator. Every single one. But yet, they're out to get you. Now you don't want to keep them from your bathrooms, but their workplace, their homes, your place of business, the public... just in case. Maybe lock them up, stop them from breeding and they'll just die out, save cis people the trouble.

[draganid]

well I'm sure when ftm transsexuals start using the women's bathrooms there will be some pretty frightened women and children lol. hopefully enough to get this retarded law removed.

[Sunseeker]

Clear answer is "They're segregated stalls".

Not in the mens room they're not. It's very common for urinals to have little more than a one-foot square between two urinals.

[Kelesti]

well I'm sure when ftm transsexuals start using the women's bathrooms there will be some pretty frightened women and children lol. hopefully enough to get this retarded law removed.

And some frightened ftm's, too. And I really wouldn't want to put them in that position, but I see charges happening long before the retarded law's removed.

Remember, it's still in arizona's constitution against interracial marriage.

[DEATHETERNAL]

Discrimination shouldn't be illegal in the first place for a private individual or private entitiy. It is a violation of liberty that is not justified by a corresponding protection of liberty. As such, I have no objection to laws that do nothing but allow discrimination.

[mjolnir1122]

Woah woah woah, listen I'm all for equality, whether it be straight, gay, transgender, and whatnot.

But remember, not all Transgender have had a sex change operation. So essentially, people want to get rid of guns altogether to be proactive in the fight against crime, but remove gender restrictions for bathrooms wouldn't possibly open the door for the possibility of sexual assault by someone posing as a transgender?

If you still have something dangling between your legs, use the mens bathroom. If you don't, then by all means, use the ladies room.

[Uennie]

And some frightened ftm's, too. And I really wouldn't want to put them in that position, but I see charges happening long before the retarded law's removed.

Remember, it's still in arizona's constitution against interracial marriage.

Actually this reminds me, did you see that messed up Cake Boss episode where they essentially tricked Carmen Carrera (mtf) into coming on the show under another pretense while using her as a prank?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-disaster.html

Pretty horrifyingly degrading.

[Kelesti]

Not in the mens room they're not. It's very common for urinals to have little more than a one-foot square between two urinals.

True. I had been running with Kavanagh's own argument about protecting the "women and children" with what he refers to as "men" in the women's restrooms. While I was attempting to make a point, I had left out DFAB(or FAAB) people and I do apologize for that.

[draganid]

And some frightened ftm's, too. And I really wouldn't want to put them in that position, but I see charges happening long before the retarded law's removed.

Remember, it's still in arizona's constitution against interracial marriage.

honestly, the ftms ive met wouldnt be too scared, due to taking testosterone some of them can get really jacked in the gym.

i feel much worse for the mtfs in the mens bathroom, how many rapes and beat downs will it take for this law to be repealed if it is put into effect?

[Kelesti]

Woah woah woah, listen I'm all for equality, whether it be straight, gay, transgender, and whatnot.

But remember, not all Transgender have had a sex change operation. So essentially, people want to get rid of guns altogether to be proactive in the fight against crime, but remove gender restrictions for bathrooms wouldn't possibly open the door for the possibility of sexual assault by someone posing as a transgender?

Shitty thing about american culture, a person can do that with or without that legislation in hand (same words you use in defending gun legislation). It's actually already illegal. This doesn't change that.

If you still have something dangling between your legs, use the mens bathroom. If you don't, then by all means, use the ladies room.

Blatant ignorance regarding violence directed against trans people of all parts of the spectrum.

[Noomz]

Arizona Senate Bill 1432 was recently called the "Bathroom bill" and would require an individual to be using the bathroom of their birth certificate or face a $2500 fine and six months in jail, being fronted by Rep. John Kavanagh, who has gone on record with statements referring to "so-called transgender people" as "weird" and equating them to "predators who are coming after the women and children."


So now it's been rewritten, openly targetting Pheonix's equality ordinance. It seems that requiring papers to see a bathroom is uncool, so instead it's now just perfectly okay for businesses (both public and private) to openly allow anyone to discriminate against a trans person for employement, housing, public accomodation, access to the business itself, and offers absolutely no legal recourse in the State of Arizona.

And this has passed with a vote of 7-4 as of tonight.
Huffington Post coverage because you won't really find it anywhere else.



And the amount of coverage from your lovely Human Rights Campaign? The same Human Rights Campaign that while standing outside the SCOTUS tells people to take down trans*flags because Equal Marriage isn't a Trans* issue? Zero. Won't cover it, not as "important" as cis white gay men shouting as loud as they can that their issues are the only ones that matter.

What good do those red equal signs tell you? Equal for who? Tell me, please.

Reminds me of this video.


I think it's ridiculous, profoundly ridiculous. Why discriminate against such a tiny, miniscule amount of people like this? It's mind-blowingly stupid.
And I thought Republicans were against government telling people what to do and how to live.

And to even say "predators who are coming after the women and children.", I mean REALLY? Yeah those transgenders sure are dangerous! Hide you wife and children!

[Simulacrum]

And the amount of coverage from your lovely Human Rights Campaign? The same Human Rights Campaign that while standing outside the SCOTUS tells people to take down trans*flags because Equal Marriage isn't a Trans* issue? Zero. Won't cover it, not as "important" as cis white gay men shouting as loud as they can that their issues are the only ones that matter.

I bet as soon as somebody can come up with some disadvantage FtMs have that MtFs don't have, that will be blamed on white males too.

Wouldn't surprise me if that conversation is already happening all over the internet, in places that I don't go to. The LGBT community isn't any less bigoted or prejudiced than any other community is.

[Kelesti]

honestly, the ftms ive met wouldnt be too scared, due to taking testosterone some of them can get really jacked in the gym.

Most of them. Seen a few that hadn't quite amped up that much just yet.

i feel much worse for the mtfs in the mens bathroom, how many rapes and beat downs will it take for this law to be repealed if it is put into effect?

Arizona. No one will care.

[Noomz]

Woah woah woah, listen I'm all for equality, whether it be straight, gay, transgender, and whatnot.

But remember, not all Transgender have had a sex change operation. So essentially, people want to get rid of guns altogether to be proactive in the fight against crime, but remove gender restrictions for bathrooms wouldn't possibly open the door for the possibility of sexual assault by someone posing as a transgender?

If you still have something dangling between your legs, use the mens bathroom. If you don't, then by all means, use the ladies room.

You know, I don't think someone that wants to rape or sexually assault someone gives a rats ass about which restroom is for which gender.