Roman Empire VS Mongol Horde !

[Deleted]

In a universe were everything is possible, the Roman Empire has survived, and come face to face with the Mongol Horde!

Note: Drawing not entirely accurate

Scenario:
In the 13th Century, the Mongol Horde slaughtered it's way through central and eastern Europe. With plans to control the Black Sea, the Mongol Empire attacks the Roman Empire in what is now Turkey and Romania. But who is victorious? That, is for you to decide. Feel free to edit the map if you like or discuss the short and long term effects of the war.

In my opinion, the Mongols would be victorious, but if they attacked further into Europe, then the Roman Empire would manage to defend themselves and defeat the invaders, possibly even pushing them back as far as the Caspian Sea.

[Deleted]

The Mongols, if you want to see what happens to Romans look at the Byzantine Empire, they WERE the Romans. Fact of the matter is, the Romans weren't used to dealing with cavalry, especially not the massive hordes of Mongolian Horsemen. We have the Polish and Lithuanians to thank for the stemming of the Mongols.

[Reeve]

The Mongols. Almost every time the Romans came up against steppe horse nomads they got their asses kicked.

---------- Post added 2013-03-29 at 01:06 AM ----------

The Mongols, if you want to see what happens to Romans look at the Byzantine Empire, they WERE the Romans. Fact of the matter is, the Romans weren't used to dealing with cavalry, especially not the massive hordes of Mongolian Horsemen. We have the Polish and Lithuanians to thank for the stemming of the Mongols.

We have Genghis Khan's death and his children's subsequent lack of ability to hold the empire together to thank for the stemming of the Mongols. I have no doubt Genghis Khan could have pushed all the way to Portugal.

[Deleted]

Romans..

Mongolians were only successful because they rushed relatively unprepared countries with a large horde using minimal tactics. If it was Romans at the height of their power vs Mongolians at theirs, Mongols wouldnt stand a chance. Rome was very militarized and had master tacticians and it was quick to adapt as well. They would have lost some territories initially but would then have taken them back with superior tactics, defense (horse archer raids wouldnt do much against heavily armored and shielded legions and stone garrisons). Plus romans had ships, stone throwers, greek fire and they were masters of forging alliances where it mattered and dividing their enemies.

[Jayburner]

but romans are prettier? how can this be?

[This name sucks]

why is this not a civ iv mod.

[Sam the Wiser]

Tough choice but going to give it to the Mongolian horde since Genghis Khan is my man.

[breadisfunny]

The Mongols, if you want to see what happens to Romans look at the Byzantine Empire, they WERE the Romans. Fact of the matter is, the Romans weren't used to dealing with cavalry, especially not the massive hordes of Mongolian Horsemen. We have the Polish and Lithuanians to thank for the stemming of the Mongols.

the byzantine empire was just a shadow of what the old roman empire was though.

[Venziir]

The Mongols, if you want to see what happens to Romans look at the Byzantine Empire, they WERE the Romans. Fact of the matter is, the Romans weren't used to dealing with cavalry, especially not the massive hordes of Mongolian Horsemen. We have the Polish and Lithuanians to thank for the stemming of the Mongols.

His first successor Ögedai did a marvelous job of crushing European templars, in fact it was his death that halted the invasion of Europea, since he had to be burried back in Mongolia and it was custom that all other dessendants of Genghis had to attend, which resulted in the horde withdrawing from Europe. Then came all the internal issues of the Mongol Empire.

Perhaps the most fascinating aspect of the Mongol Empire, and empire usually assumed to be nothing but a billion savages destroying and conquering everything, was perhaps the fact taht Genghis was a very tolerant and intelligent man, who supported world wide trading, freedom of religion (something usually not found in ancient Empires), a national alphabet, litteracy and wrote a lot of laws that actually worked - On the whole, the tight discipline made the Mongol Empire extremely safe and well-run; European travelers were amazed by the organization and strict discipline of the people within the Mongol Empire.

He truly was "The Great Khan".

[Simulacrum]

I have a huge hardon for the romans, but the mongols (at their peak, mind you) were probably the greatest army in all of human history up to well into napolean times.

Reading about the way their armies worked is fucking terrifying. They could very realistically have wiped out most of the population of europe they had set their minds to it. They totally kicked the asses of enormous european armies with tiny expeditionary forces. It's insane.

Perhaps the most fascinating aspect of the Mongol Empire, and empire usually assumed to be nothing but a billion savages destroying and conquering everything, was perhaps the fact taht Genghis was a very tolerant and intelligent man, who supported world wide trading, freedom of religion (something usually not found in ancient Empires), a national alphabet, litteracy and wrote a lot of laws that actually worked - On the whole, the tight discipline made the Mongol Empire extremely safe and well-run; European travelers were amazed by the organization and strict discipline of the people within the Mongol Empire.

He truly was "The Great Khan".

He killed millions of people, raped thousands of women. He wanted to depopulate mainland china to turn it into pasture land for his horses, and was supposedly only convined not to do it because chinese servants told him that you could tax the people and get more use out of them that way than you would if you just eradicated them all. He was a genocidal lunatic of proportions that are almost incomprehensible.

The mongols' cruelty in wiping out peoples puts the natzis to shame. They would do stuff like completely genocide an entire city, kill most of the men and women, and take the rest either as slaves, or take them along to use as cannon-fodder nfor the next city they took, driving them in front of them like cattle, and leading them in front of them during sieges to absorb all the casualties. After genociding cities, they'd send back forces a week or so later to kill everyone who was hiding when they first left, to make sure that they got absolutely everyone.

What's that quote I keep hearing about what the romans did? "They make a desert and call it peace"? What the mongols did was infinitely much worse than what the romans did. They were a great army, an impressive civilization, and they did create peace in one of the historically most dangerous parts of the world, but they were still fucking evil in as unhyperbolic a way as that description has ever been used. Calling Genghis "very tolerant" is like calling Hitler "very tolerant". It might even be worse.

[Venziir]

Romans..

Mongolians were only successful because they rushed relatively unprepared countries with a large horde using minimal tactics. If it was Romans at the height of their power vs Mongolians at theirs, Mongols wouldnt stand a chance. Rome was very militarized and had master tacticians and it was quick to adapt as well. They would have lost some territories initially but would then have taken them back with superior tactics, defense (horse archer raids wouldnt do much against heavily armored and shielded legions and stone garrisons). Plus romans had ships, stone throwers, greek fire and they were masters of forging alliances where it mattered and dividing their enemies.

Yet despite all this, the Roman Empire was also the Empire of Decadence, Corruption and Backstabbing. They could barely even deal with Attila and his forces, and honestly, Attila was nothing compared to Genghis. And horse archers couldn't do much against garrisons? And yet they conquered China, the empire with perhaps the biggest garrison in the world.

[bradok]

Yet despite all this, the Roman Empire was also the Empire of Decadence, Corruption and Backstabbing. They could barely even deal with Attila and his forces, and honestly, Attila was nothing compared to Genghis. And horse archers couldn't do much against garrisons? And yet they conquered China, the empire with perhaps the biggest garrison in the world.

Actually, they did end up dealing with Attila at Chalons, and had the Legions of Ceasars day been at the helm, Attila would have been a non-issue.
Since the question implies that the Empire was at its' height, then I would have to say that the disciplined Legions that conquered the Mediterranean world would definitely be able to hold back the Mongol hordes.

[Venziir]

Actually, they did end up dealing with Attila at Chalons, and had the Legions of Ceasars day been at the helm, Attila would have been a non-issue.
Since the question implies that the Empire was at its' height, then I would have to say that the disciplined Legions that conquered the Mediterranean world would definitely be able to hold back the Mongol hordes.

"Barely even deal" - Yes, they fought Attila, but he kept coming back, if they hadn't settled the conflict by giving him a wife and Atilla then dying of a *very* suspicious nosebleed, who knows?

[GennGreymane]

i would say the mongols them be cray!

[bradok]

"Barely even deal" - Yes, they fought Attila, but he kept coming back, if they hadn't settled the conflict by giving him a wife and Atilla then dying of a *very* suspicious nosebleed, who knows?

For some reason I seem to have missed the "barely even", and yeah, while Attilas' death did stop his ravaging of the Empire, I feel that the Empire at its' height could easily have dealt with him.

[Shakari]

Romans..

Mongolians were only successful because they rushed relatively unprepared countries with a large horde using minimal tactics. If it was Romans at the height of their power vs Mongolians at theirs, Mongols wouldnt stand a chance. Rome was very militarized and had master tacticians and it was quick to adapt as well. They would have lost some territories initially but would then have taken them back with superior tactics, defense (horse archer raids wouldnt do much against heavily armored and shielded legions and stone garrisons). Plus romans had ships, stone throwers, greek fire and they were masters of forging alliances where it mattered and dividing their enemies.

I think you need to do a little reading up before saying that hehe

The mongols especially Genghis Khan used advanced tactics and on many occasion especially while fighting china were outnumbers upto 5 to 1 yet still wonder overwhelming victories.

Romans were very poor at fighting again mobile enemies ie cavalry there conflicts and losses in the middle east proved that and again Genghis they would have been butchered.

Simply put in the roman theatre of war horse did not play or need to play a large part of the conflict but times changed and they never really adapted.

---------- Post added 2013-03-29 at 01:52 AM ----------

In a universe were everything is possible, the Roman Empire has survived, and come face to face with the Mongol Horde!

Note: Drawing not entirely accurate

Scenario:
In the 13th Century, the Mongol Horde slaughtered it's way through central and eastern Europe. With plans to control the Black Sea, the Mongol Empire attacks the Roman Empire in what is now Turkey and Romania. But who is victorious? That, is for you to decide. Feel free to edit the map if you like or discuss the short and long term effects of the war.

In my opinion, the Mongols would be victorious, but if they attacked further into Europe, then the Roman Empire would manage to defend themselves and defeat the invaders, possibly even pushing them back as far as the Caspian Sea.

If not for the death of Genghis Khan nothing in europe would have been capable of stopping the mongols heavy compound bows, horse back and excellent fighting skills made them pretty much invincible in there day.

[bradok]

If not for the death of Genghis Khan nothing in europe would have been capable of stopping the mongols heavy compound bows, horse back and excellent fighting skills made them pretty much invincible in there day.

Except for the wet, rainy weather.

[Mouri Kogorou]

2 interesting battles :

Ain jalut : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ain_Jalut
Yarmouk : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yarmouk

Basically no1 should fuk around that area...

[Bakis]

Not sure about mongols winning. They were the first masters of Blitzkrieg I will give them that but comming up against the romans which where masters of defensive fortifications, logisitics, discipline, weaponry I'm not sure. Comming into the Roman Empire via Bosporen and along that route would pose some impressive geographical obstacales, enough warning for the romans to move troops and entrench.
Im very unsure of how many tropps both sides could muster and considering an attack would demand a much higher ration per roman... I DUNNO

[Adam Jensen]

Mongols.

The Romans were pretty badass but they'd be wiped off the face of the earth against the Mongols. It would be pretty epic though.