Square Enix CEO resigns after major losses, Square announces "no more social games".

[ElderOrb]

Not surprising. SE is really doing a poor job these days, squandering their good line of game brands.
Not sure if giving up social games is the right move though. Some other Japanese companies are making good money there.

[Rukh]

It's fine for S-E to make handheld and smartphone games, they just need to not dilute out their main IPs to do it. They could easily make a new fantasy IP for handhelds. it would be for that target market and would have followers through sequels from that market.

As far as graphics, I don't know why companies don't go back to cell shading. Anime is still hugely popular, and not because there's 10 million polygons per inch.

There was a game called Auto Modellista way back in PS2 games, it wasn't a great game itself mainly due to controls but it's graphics have aged very well due to them going for a cel shading aesthetic instead of trying to dump truckloads of money on to rendering car panels.

http://www.giantbomb.com/auto-modellista/3030-19531/

That game was from way back in 2002.


It would be really cheap to go for an animated aesthetic and then actually put their giant boat of money in to things that matter to gamers.

[Kaosbringer]

Not surprising. SE is really doing a poor job these days, squandering their good line of game brands.
Not sure if giving up social games is the right move though. Some other Japanese companies are making good money there.

True, but are those other companies mainly remembered as RPG focused? The thing that I think we need to remember is that RPGs are very story driven, and the more social you make an RPG the more the story tends to suffer. Look at WoW it has a story but is that really why you play it? No. Now look at FF6 It has literally no social elements, but nearly 20 years later it still has a loyal following.

If your going to add social elements into an RPG it has to be done right, which has proven to be difficult to do.

[krunksmash]

they can start with a FF7 remake to include vioceovers. give the people what they ask for as an appology for failing then get back on track.

[Faroth]

I, too, want to believe.

---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 04:55 AM ----------

they can start with a FF7 remake to include vioceovers. give the people what they ask for as an appology for failing then get back on track.

I was half expecting a next-gen Final Fantasy 7 remake on PS4 to be announced. It would skyrocket PS4 sales and put Square back in the green. I don't think 7 is the greatest of the series like many do, but I can't deny the results a remake would have.

[Kaosbringer]

they can start with a FF7 remake to include vioceovers. give the people what they ask for as an appology for failing then get back on track.

I seriously have no clue why they haven't done this yet. I mean ever since the FF7 PS3 tech-demo the demand for it has been high. It's literally guaranteed money.

[krunksmash]

I, too, want to believe.

---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 04:55 AM ----------



I was half expecting a next-gen Final Fantasy 7 remake on PS4 to be announced. It would skyrocket PS4 sales and put Square back in the green. I don't think 7 is the greatest of the series like many do, but I can't deny the results a remake would have.

PS4 is doomed befor it launches due to no porting of PS3 digi from factory and if I remember not all PS3 games will play on PS4. if they remake it wi will be on all systems

[ElderOrb]

True, but are those other companies mainly remembered as RPG focused? The thing that I think we need to remember is that RPGs are very story driven, and the more social you make an RPG the more the story tends to suffer. Look at WoW it has a story but is that really why you play it? No. Now look at FF6 It has literally no social elements, but nearly 20 years later it still has a loyal following.

If your going to add social elements into an RPG it has to be done right, which has proven to be difficult to do.

Sorry I am not quite familiar with WoW - I play mostly Japanese games, where the appeal usually comes from storyline and character building. The more successful social games in that realm, to best of my understanding, is more like a Farmville based on popular characters. People pay money because they want to have their beloved character on their smartphone app with a special costume, because they want to show these things off to their friends, etc.

I don't think SE are particularly good at that - they didn't have much widely beloved character beyond FF7, and perhaps to a lesser extent, FF10. They don't seem to bother to run campaigns to appeal their core fan base either. Some other companies, like KOEI Tecmo, which are generally looked down upon in the west, are in contrast quite successful in Japan because they are willing to build their game character and appeal their fan base.

It's all very different.

[Zenko]

The problems I have/had with 12 was the fact it started so SLOOOOOOOOOOW. And it never really picked up. The story, which had tons of potential, ended up playing out at a snails pace and never really sucked me in and made me want to see what happens next the way previous games had. At big moments, I was left just thinking Meh every time. There was zero connection to the characters. They felt hollow. You could literally remove Penelo and to some extent Vaan, and miss nothing. Nobody was really built up. The entire game was a missed opportunity.

Yah I can agree with that. Thats exactly how I felt when I first went through it. FF12 wasnt really about the cast though. It really shines as a political thriller, in the same spirit that Tactics was. I think if the creator of Tactics/12 never left the company during the development of 12 we would have gotten way more out of the game. I think the game is a great example of Square not giving enough freedom to their own employees, and expecting quick cash in a market thats too saturated.

Yasumi Matsuno is credited as the creator/writer of Tactics Ogre and the Ivalice series. All of his games since FF Tactics have been based in the world of Ivalice. He worked on FF12 for 3 years before he 'left.' After he left, Square changed a bunch of fundamentals of the game. Like changing the main character from Basche to Vaan, and removing the job system, which crudely ended up re-implemented for the Zodiac re-release that never left Japan for some reason. They had to change, but mostly remove a ton of story and gameplay elements because of this. These elements were going to be re-added with the Zodiac version but the Square execs only gave them 5 men to get the job done, so that never happened.

Basically, its apparent that the talent that is left at Square is being heavily restricted to appeal to the most common denominator. Im afraid that switching their CEO to someone whos even more worried about financial gains will only cause more problems.

[SodiumChloride]

FF12 gets so much flack, yet its the most non-linear of the entire franchise. I think if the international version was released outside of japan then it would have been a bigger hit here in the states. I didnt like it when i first played it, but recently going through it again with this improved version and I 'effin love the game.

You can explore 75% of the world map about 1/4 through the game. Certain areas are barred off by the main quest but you can find plenty of optional espers, amazing equipment/spells, and explore some of the endgame areas along the way. Its normal to have over 200 hours of gameplay on a 100% completion file.

Its like they went from a half-linear / half-open 1-9 to a super-linear FF10, to super-open FF12, then decided to backtrack to hyper-linear FF13 for some reason. Even FF12 international wasnt perfect, but they did so many right things that they need to bring back for future installments.

FF12 story sucked. It didn't pull you in. Unlike FFX, which had a heavily character driven story, FF12 seem to be mostly about politics. Zzzz.

A few hours in I stopped caring and dumped the game - the chaotic mess that was it combat didn't help and neither did the "flying blind" license board which doesn't "let you see where you are going".

[Kalyyn]

I seriously have no clue why they haven't done this yet. I mean ever since the FF7 PS3 tech-demo the demand for it has been high. It's literally guaranteed money.

I don't know what it is about the Japanese entertainment industry, but they have a long track record of intentionally making terrible business decisions. Cancelling successful shows, shutting down sequels to great games to divert resources to less profitable titles, outright refusing to port anything to PC...

They literally push all of their shit products as hard as possible, but as soon as something does well you have CEO's screaming "KILL IT WITH FIRE!"

It's the most ass-backwards perversion of capitalism I've ever seen.

[Kelesti]

well seeing what they did with ff 13 I am not surprised. god that game was just one big long tunnel to wade trough.
the story was okeish but that was where it ended for me as well
I made it till I landed on pulse went in to the cave by mistake and after I got vanillas summon I just promptly turned the game of and haven played it ever since >_>.
[...]
ff 10 was the last one I actually played through

>Complains of XIII's linearity.
>Actually finished X.

Am I the only one that sees this?

[Vocah]

>Complains of XIII's linearity.
>Actually finished X.

Am I the only one that sees this?

Maybe he thinks the FF13 tunnel was too narrow?

[Kelesti]

Maybe he thinks the FF13 tunnel was too narrow?

The thing that made X 'feel' different was story based. You were always doing something more than just pushing forwards, from a story point of view.

You were going to one temple (which had an interesting break in gameplay for puzzle solving). Then you were journeying, then you were at another temple. Then eventually you were taking a (still linear) "detour" and part of Operation Mi'hen. Before once again returning to get Ixion. Compare it to XIII, and I can get that impression where it goes from intro stage to running from Guardian Corps, to running from Psi Corps as well, to running to Gran Pulse, to running from all the scary things at Gran Pulse, to running to break Coccoon out of the sky... it gets exhausting, for sure.


Yet, back in Final Fantasy X, you never stop pushing forward on your controller, and in a lot of parts it's even more narrow hallways than XIII, but Gran Pulse came sooner than the Calm lands as far as that open-air-feeling is concerned. It's just, storyline wise it feels broken up, giving people the illusion of doing something more than pushing forward.

Is that it?

(Despite everyone hating XII's completely open world as well, huh go figure.)

[Vocah]

I really don't have a problem with open world/linear gameplay, as long as it fits the story.

The long tunnel/running away from stuff in FF13 did feel "natural" to me, I mean you are subject to a manhunt...
If your party is not hunted a more open world approach fits better, etc

[Kelesti]

I really don't have a problem with open world/linear gameplay, as long as it fits the story.

The long tunnel/running away from stuff in FF13 did feel "natural" to me, I mean you are subject to a manhunt...
If your party is not hunted a more open world approach fits better, etc

I'm one of those weirdos that actually enjoyed both XII and XIII each in their own rights, and didn't mind the man-hunt aspect of it at all actually. I was just trying to potentially empathize with why people who love X seem to forget how linear it is, and absolutely hate XIII because of it, and it's hard to come up with any reason beyond "amg they're playing Rammstein or at least what I think is Rammstein and all this other stuff and omg blitzball this is so cool" nostalgia factor.

I mean, X was just as linear (if not more so) than XIII. What's your take on it? Is it the 'feel' that could be pushing away these X fans from XIII? Is it the fact that a character with breasts can pass the Bechdel test, and have a story be more than just her relationship to a man, and that bothers the dudebros?

[Vocah]

I don't know, since I didn't have problems with it

My gripe with 13 were:
1) you don't really have control of the rest of your party
2) you had to beat the game once to unlock the last thingy (don't remember the name)
3) paradigm stuff (I prefer to have a role for my characters that are not switchable on the fly in-combat)

[Kelesti]

The thing about Paradigms that I didn't like was yes, it felt very rigid. Outside of Pet-Collection stuff (leave that to my Pokemon cart's please, I buy those every release for a reason), the improvements in XIII-2 were very felt with it. Formation control (Cross vs. Wide), having your roles and combinations (and therefore spells) available a lot sooner compared to how split up they were among your party, and that they shifted instantly rather than having a three second delay...

It definitely felt a lot more polished in the sequel than the original.

So for your first point, if the system of XIII-2 had been implemented in the first one (the change of leader, the ability to control formations), I feel that this would have rectified that almost instantly.

As for the second point, I agree that tying the final Crystarium Expansion to actually beating Orphan (and for what?!) was a stupid idea. Full stop.

For your third, they tried fluid style, but they've also tried omni-class and rigid class before, but outside of the X-2 inspired dress-spheres returning in Lightning Returns, I could easily see them returning to a rigid style or something completely new as well. I don't forsee Paradigms being a mechanic sticking around as much as the Draw/Junction system hasn't been seen since either.

[Mavecryst]

I'm one of those weirdos that actually enjoyed both XII and XIII each in their own rights, and didn't mind the man-hunt aspect of it at all actually. I was just trying to potentially empathize with why people who love X seem to forget how linear it is, and absolutely hate XIII because of it, and it's hard to come up with any reason beyond "amg they're playing Rammstein or at least what I think is Rammstein and all this other stuff and omg blitzball this is so cool" nostalgia factor.

I mean, X was just as linear (if not more so) than XIII. What's your take on it? Is it the 'feel' that could be pushing away these X fans from XIII? Is it the fact that a character with breasts can pass the Bechdel test, and have a story be more than just her relationship to a man, and that bothers the dudebros?

I didn't like either very much, though I didn't hate them. But it was more than just how one was "too" open ended the other "too" narrow. The illusion that X created was important. Most gamers don't normally delve into the reason why they hate or like a game beyond "cool characters" or "moving story" or whatever. Hence, the illusion works as long as you're not aware of the illusion. However, the thing is there's still other things to see/do even if most of the experience is on rails (referring to X still).

For example, you had to look out for items hidden away, Al bhed primers, you went through some towns, there was blitzball. Yes, you'd still be travelling in a straight line technically but the line was actually kinda fuzzy, and that fuzziness was important. I'll admit, the first time I played X, I actually didn't like it, and mostly replayed it the second time for blitzball. However, I grew to like it as I went along, able to get used to the new linearity cos I found it was still livable with.

Won't talk about 12 first, let's skip to 13. 13 didn't even bother creating an illusion of any sort, and that irritated me to no end. Every damn thing is linear! From the Crystarium to the normal storyline. To make things worse, they put you through this Gold Saucer wannabe area and nothing! Nothing from it! Grr. I tried to replay 13 to see if I could "get used" to it like I did with 10, but this time I was too bored. It's almost like watching a movie, the only thing I enjoyed was some scenes and the combat. And the some scenes I like were offset by other, horribly voice acted and just bad scenes.

FF10 had some flesh. 13 was just a skeleton of game, that's how I thought of it. If it had been a non-final fantasy game I may not have been as disappointed, but eh.

As for 12, I think people may not hate it so much for its open endedness as for its boringness. Unless you flat out hate open ended worlds, the problem with FF12 wasn't its open ended world exactly, but that the open ended world it had made things more boring than it already was. Combat was boring with the gambits (and unlike 13, where I didn't mind unnecessarily using paradigm switching to make things fun, I couldn't force myself to input commands during battle because I found the commands unresponsive). The story was boring, for the most part. Half the cast was boring. It's a pity, because they had some cool villains and characters, but they were overshadowed by the sheer amount of bore the others possessed.

What I think would be great would be a mix of the story pacing from 13 and the open endedness of 12. So, you could progress quickly (in a relatively straight line) if you chose to, or explore if you didn't want to move so fast. The linearity of the storyline will be hidden once again by the non-linearity of the world itself, and more people can relate to the experience, being able to choose the pace they progress at.