Lack of male teachers.

[Deleted]

I'm curious to hear opinions on the dramatic lack of male teachers in Western nations. Great Britain, the US and most* nations have about a 4:1 ration between women and men. It fluctuates from nation to nation, Scotland for example only has 8% primary male teachers.

Being a teacher myself this is self evident. Only in all boys private schools have I found this trend to break, typically this isn't due to sexist hiring policies though. It's actually the school hiring past pupils and being an all boys school what else can one expect?

Whilst listening to the radio the other afternoon I heard a political activist being interviewed about the lack of female politicians in Ireland. She was asked why women weren't involved in politics, her response was to state women are actively discouraged from politics. Going on to state that men are to blame for the current European economic situation. The host (I think it was on 96fm) asked her about why there is a severe lack of male teachers internationally, her response was that men just don't want to be teachers. Now she was clearly a nut, but nuts get their voices heard more often than not.

That last part is only partially true. As a male teacher my biggest "fear" is the whole abuse scandal. Male teachers are advised by administration to never, under any circumstances, be in a room with a student with a closed door. We can't comfort students if they're upset, or discuss any sort of touchy issue. We've just got to send them to the counselor. To me it feels wrong, especially when I've worked in schools where this policy is focused heavily, almost exclusively, on the male staff.

But what do you think? Is it appropriate that men are being passively removed from the teaching profession? I can't honestly see an active process, society just finds that male teachers are weird in the current climate.

Please remember I AM biased in this. My work has coloured my opinions, so take that with a grain of salt.

[xindralol]

the whole abuse thing is kinda overrated like the super high malpractice insurance premiums for doctors while they are almost never actually found guilty. it happens rarely but when it does, the media usually pick it up.
if you look at higher ed the m/f teacher ratio kind of shifts - I think it's simply because more women enjoy working with kids / toddlers (yeah we could look at female dominated preschools as well) while men who enjoy teaching would rather skip the social aspect and just give lectures. *shrug*

[Grummgug]

My gut instinct says that cultural values teach men to be the breadwinner of the family. Most teachers don't make a lot of money, so if you're going to go to college to earn a degree it should be in something more lucrative so that you can be breadwinner. Women aren't under pressure to be the breadwinner, so teaching is just fine.

[Deleted]

the whole abuse thing is kinda overrated like the super high malpractice insurance premiums for doctors while they are almost never actually found guilty. it happens rarely but when it does, the media usually pick it up.
if you look at higher ed the m/f teacher ratio kind of shifts - I think it's simply because more women enjoy working with kids / toddlers (yeah we could look at female dominated preschools as well) while men who enjoy teaching would rather skip the social aspect and just give lectures. *shrug*

That's not how it works. A teaching degree does not mean you can work in a University, typically speaking a PhD is required for long term employment. As for lecturing, the divide is much less apparent.

[Dezerte]

Hmm, my experiences don't seem to match. Then again, anecdotal evidence, I don't know what the average ratios overall for Sweden is.

[Deleted]

Hmm, my experiences don't seem to match. Then again, anecdotal evidence, I don't know what the average ratios overall for Sweden is.

Very hard to find any statistics on teacher employment for Sweden. Might be a lack of English articles. That being said Sweden has a stupidly ideal scenario. Excellent investment in education, amazing benefits for teachers and a realistic gender policy. Pity I can't teach there :P

[caractacus]

I was a Male primary school teacher for a short time.

The money wasn't a problem, the societal and cultural implications of it being a profession for women wasn't a problem and I was never really worried about false allegations

I could spend all day discussing what did drive me off as it is very long and complicated but essentially it boils down to the ridiculous nature of the education system we have in our country (UK)

[xindralol]

That's not how it works. A teaching degree does not mean you can work in a University, typically speaking a PhD is required for long term employment. As for lecturing, the divide is much less apparent.

well I was talking about teaching in general - besides, most teachers at good schools have a least a masters and you can still teach at a university while working on your phd. it's not like women (or high school teachers for that matter) are not *smart enough* to earn a phd / graduate degree.

[Deleted]

I was a Male primary school teacher for a short time.

The money wasn't a problem, the societal and cultural implications of it being a profession for women wasn't a problem and I was never really worried about false allegations

I could spend all day discussing what did drive me off as it is very long and complicated but essentially it boils down to the ridiculous nature of the education system we have in our country (UK)

Care to elaborate? I'm quite familiar with the UK (and yes it's weird) as I'll be emigrating there soon. Ah history, loves it's patterns.

---------- Post added 2013-03-31 at 06:54 PM ----------

well I was talking about teaching in general - besides, most teachers at good schools have a least a masters and you can still teach at a university while working on your phd. it's not like women (or high school teachers for that matter) are not *smart enough* to earn a phd / graduate degree.

I'm sorry but that's totally irrelevant, I've no idea why you felt you needed to point that out to me. And the "at least a masters" depends on how your nation attributes their teaching qualification. In Ireland ours is a level 8 qualification. So I've had to do a level 8 BA, a level 8 TQ and a level 9 Masters. Total five years study, stupid but that's Ireland for you.

[Deleted]

Very hard to find any statistics on teacher employment for Sweden. Might be a lack of English articles. That being said Sweden has a stupidly ideal scenario. Excellent investment in education, amazing benefits for teachers and a realistic gender policy. Pity I can't teach there :P

What are you talking about? I haven't heard much of excellent investment in schools, the opposite rather, teachers go around with one of the lowest salaries in Sweden, and as for realistic gender policies... okay, well, Sweden is pretty good when it comes to gender policies all-around so I can't argue with that.

[Paladin885]

I'm sorry but that's totally irrelevant, I've no idea why you felt you needed to point that out to me. And the "at least a masters" depends on how your nation attributes their teaching qualification. In Ireland ours is a level 8 qualification. So I've had to do a level 8 BA, a level 8 TQ and a level 9 Masters. Total five years study, stupid but that's Ireland for you.

It's so bad here in the states that having a masters can label you as "over qualified" for a teaching position in public schools. "Red" states have cut back on education so much that it's damaging the quality of teachers who will actually teach and making the salary not worth the education to become a teacher.

[xindralol]

[...] I'm sorry but that's totally irrelevant, I've no idea why you felt you needed to point that out to me. And the "at least a masters" depends on how your nation attributes their teaching qualification. In Ireland ours is a level 8 qualification. So I've had to do a level 8 BA, a level 8 TQ and a level 9 Masters. Total five years study, stupid but that's Ireland for you.

maybe I misunderstood you, my bad. I felt it necessary to show that I'm not misogynistic, that imo there is a different reason for female teacher dominated high schools. a masters isn't necessary afaik but schools in high ses districts have enough applicants so they can be picky.
I realize the situation is very different in some low ses / minority districts, but then again I know of a lot of students who are volunteering and organizations like tfa (am I allowed to write out the names on this forum?!) or jumpstart (for preschool) help alleviate the problem.

[theredviola]

I'm a male teacher and OP hit the nail on the head. It's all about the stigma and fear of an accusation. What a LOT of people don't realize is that, in some school districts, an accusation of misconduct is all a kid needs to get a teacher fired. Some districts are more intelligent about it. They'll just up and suspend you with pay until an investigation has been gone through then completely reinstate you and erase the suspension from your record.

The best advice given to me was from my mentor teacher during my student teaching. She told me that sometimes there's just no avoiding being alone with a student. The best thing to do is create an evidence trial of the exact opposite. Text, or better if you call, your wife or husband, a good friend, your mom. Someone that can give you an alibi with a time stamp on it.

Luckily, I haven't heard of a male teacher (or any teacher for that example) being fired solely on the accusation of sexual misconduct -- only on proof that an act was committed in my area. But you never know. Kids can be very VERY vengeful and spiteful for any number of reasons and I wouldn't put it past a few to try and pull something like that in the future.

[AeneasBK]

I'd LOVE to teach maths. It clicks with me and I enjoy trying to describe functions in lots of different ways to find the one that "clicks" with the student.

I'd hate to be a surrogate parent. In the UK teachers are expected to be parents to children whos parents never wanted them anyway, fuck that.

[This name sucks]

All male teachers are paedophiles.

inb4 someone thinks I'm serious

Infracted - Please do not bait other posters

[caractacus]

Care to elaborate? I'm quite familiar with the UK (and yes it's weird) as I'll be emigrating there soon. Ah history, loves it's patterns.[COLOR="red"]

The best place to start would be this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY He explains it a lot better than I do.
The main problem is standardisation. It's not the only one but a massive part of it.

Have you heard of the square peg in a round hole? If I was to use an analogy to describe my contempt of the current system it would be this. If you imagine those things you get as a small child where you have all different shaped blocks and you have to fit them through slots, well that is a lot like school. Only imagine having lots of different shapes but only one slot, that's how the current system works, some will fit through perfectly, some will fit through if you turn them around and jam them through but some won't fit through at all.

The way it works at the moment is much like a factory production line, it treats all children like empty slates which are all identical and they all have the same learning capacity and aptitudes, when in reality this is far from the truth.

In the UK kids have to do an hour of maths and an hour or literacy everyday. This is because we think standards of maths and literacy are too low. This suits some children but others aren't naturally inclined to these subjects and simply forcing them to do more and more doesn't work. This isn't to say these children will never learn these subjects but they learn them in different ways. For example a child can learn maths through science or another child may learn literacy through studying history. A lot of children (and I've witnessed this first hand) are becoming more and more disaffected by the current system because they are getting funnelled into this "one size fits all" mentality.

I can give you a particular heartbreaking example from my own experience. The way literacy works is that it is graded on levels 1-6. So for example if you do a very basic piece of writing that includes capital letters and full stops in the right places you get a level 1. If you can incorporate things like speech marks you may move up to level 2. Start to use features like metaphors and similes and you get higher levels all the way up to level 6. Now this wasn't my class, I was standing in for there teacher, but I had to mark their work. I just found it really disturbing, every piece of work featured the same arbitrary phrases which were forcibly inserted into each piece for the sole purpose of gaining levels. Every piece of writing was almost identical and void of any creative content. I felt so sorry for these children, it was like they were being brainwashed.

[proteen]

Lack of male teachers? More like lack of competitive pay.

[Deleted]

I'd LOVE to teach maths. It clicks with me and I enjoy trying to describe functions in lots of different ways to find the one that "clicks" with the student.

I'd hate to be a surrogate parent. In the UK teachers are expected to be parents to children whos parents never wanted them anyway, fuck that.

Pastoral care is a major component, coupled with media scares this makes for a very anxious schools environ.

@theredviola I typically keep a record of all interactions on paper, plus mentioning it offhand to superiors. Fear, what a motivation for paperwork :P

[Wolfbear]

Primary school education just doesn't appeal as much I guess.. Females more maternal so they prefer teaching small kids? lol Fuck knows.
Plenty of male teachers in my high school, possibly more males than females actually, at least equal.

[Deleted]

Primary school education just doesn't appeal as much I guess.. Females more maternal so they prefer teaching small kids? lol Fuck knows.
Plenty of male teachers in my high school, possibly more males than females actually, at least equal.

Statistically men are at a massive minority.