Resto druid tier 15 set bonuses

[dalliah1]

There's extremely little discussion about the tier 15 set bonuses. The 2 piece is extremely meh but the 4 piece seems like it could be very nice in heroic progression raids that have constant raid damage. Would it be worth losing the tier 14 3 second off swiftmend set though? The SOTF 4 piece t14 combo is pretty nice. What do you think?

[Deleted]

Tier 15 is better... the 2 set is great, but i guess only from a 25 man pov. Tbh the stat increases alone should be enough of a viable reason for you to make the change, unless you are in fully upgraded hc tier 14 gear. even so I suggest making the switch once you have 2 pieces of T15.

A lot of Rdruids are still playing SotF without the t14 set bonus, and seeing good results, but incarnation + 6652 haste is in the lead on the majority of TOT encounters.

[Deleted]

Hey guys! I Just want to ask a thing since it was mentioned here by sexfacejonny, so... from 3043 to 6652 you should gain an extra tick on (according to MMO guide)
1 tick on LB (2 if we let it bloom)
1tick on Regrowth (and since most of us use the glyph, no tick at all)
1tick on Wild Growth

So... and to do that we lose about 3609 rating (probably either crit>haste or mastery>haste)

that means 6% crit or 7.5% Harmony buff accross the board just for those 2 extra ticks (mainly even the extra tick on WG)

and acctually, according to Ysoph in another tread, mastery is so powerfull this days that

As stated elsewhere on this forum - with t15 gear 2 mastery becomes more valuable than 1 int. So int/mastery gems might be better than pure int for you, for exact math compare spellpower you have to 0.5843*mastery + 22605. If your sp is higher than number you got 2mastery is over 1int for you.

so... 1 tick of WG is better than those 7.5% mastery? not trying to be rude or anything... but seems weird that you should give up so much throughput accross the board for one extra tick that probably can go into overhealing anyway (imo).

anyone care to comment? (sorry If i went a little bit OT =/)

[Deleted]

I gave up spirit and crit to reach the breakpoint 6652.... no loss at all. (I currently raid with 8K spirit in 25 man and dont have mana issues)

If you can reach the 6652 without sacrificing Mastery / int then its the best option to increase your throughput.

As per Ysoph's equation, I find myself gemming mastery over int now anyway.

[Deleted]

Sorry - but i don´t see any reason to push up haste to 6652. Because of what? 1 tick for WG and that´s completely all you can give me? For this you are going to reforge spirit, crit or mastery perhaps some gems?

If you raid with 8k spirit in 25 man than the only one thing why you don´t have mana issues is - that your other healers heal so good and so much more than you that you don´t need to heal - question is why are you there. In 10man no way to use your strategy.

This idea is just a joke.

Anyway t15 bonuses are good i think, for 10 man for sure. In 25 man hard to tell - i will take other healers to 25 man than resto druid so hard to speak about these raids.

[Deleted]

Im consistantly top 3 in my 25 man team, consisting of 2 Hpalas, 1 Priest, 1 monk and 1 shaman and me. I am seeing good results and so are people using the same spec. If you can reach the 6652 breakpoint without sacrificing mastery and int then why shouldnt you go for it?

If on the other hand you arent skilled enough to manage your mana using inntervate, pots and incarnation then stack spirit to the heavens. I play to my own style which is working wonders for me, its not wrong as many people have confirmed the 6652 is a throughput increase.

Learn what "a joke" is before you come trolling without any information to back it up other than "idontlikedruidsgtfo"

[Deleted]

From a 10 man pov: 2 set t15 isn't all that awesome. It's good on stack fights like Jinrokh, Megaera and Iron Qon, but otherwise you won't see much mileage. The stat increases still make up for it though, assuming 496 to 522. If you have upgraded heroic t14, I wouldn't swap for normal until you have 4 piece. Losing the SM + WG with SotF sync kinda sucks, but it's not the end of the world. If you weren't using SotF anyway, it's a no-brainer.

[Deleted]

Man - no offence, but if you have on your 25 man group 2hpala, 1disc priest, 1monk and still you are in top 3 it doesn´t mean you are bad or wrong. It means something is wrong - in this case with them. If you believe you understand how to heal than don´t tell me you believe hpalas, disc priest and in most fights also monk schould be before you --- if they will be same skill? Rdruids now are pretty good for 10 man, but in 25 man if the other healers know their classes it´s hard.

Next true is - For 10 it´s for sure you have no chance to survive with 8k spirit at all.

You tell right:
- If you can reach the 6652 breakpoint without sacrificing mastery and int

When we will be on item lvl 520+ we can start to think about it, 522+ will be the break point perhaps. But till this moment soft haste cap and mastery is the way. That means you can use your reforge strategy ONLY for 25 man and ONLY for good geared druids.

It´s same with t15 bonuses. For 10 man 2piece bonus for let´s say 25% of ToT with good cooperation with the raid. 4 piece bonus is 40-50% or more going to overheal.

Also for the reforge teorie it could be true, it will be nice to have next haste cap but in the end for what - more ticks in overheal? In this fase where most of the players are 495-515 ilvl this is not very good way to go.

[Deleted]

I agree, and indeed it does show, I am usually behind the palas and priest on meters, not on all fights but about 8/12 of them. Druids arent in a terrible place (Like where shamans were last patch) but we can still competitively heal if played correctly.

My ilevel is 518 currently, and i preety much fell into the 6652 haste breakpoint, therefore it was an easy choice for me.

10 man is not suited for a druid with 8K spirit definitely, but from my exp in 25 man raiding, the amount of utility other healers have to help me manage my mana is much higher, mana tides, mana hymns, Innervate from other druids if need be. All it takes is some brains and communication.

I think that 25 man receives a decent benefit from the T15 2pc, I would think that there is always a higher chance that 4 people will be in your swiftmend at all times in 25 unlike 10 man, wouldn't you agree? but for purposely stacked periods of time in encounters, then the hps would be higher with a 10 man. So its good in both scenarios.

I can say that if you are in an ilevel of below 505 then you should not consider the 6652 breakpoint.

[Sprucelee]

The next BP effects WG and Swiftmend, FWIW. Combined with 2 peice T15 that means you add an extra target and tick to all for SM, plus the +1 to WG.

4pc T15 is really nice, so everyone is going to have to through 4pcT14 withdrawals at some point. As for dropping secondary stats for the next haste BP, that is entirely on a case by case basis. Not only by ilvl, but if you have lots of haste gear etc.

Incarnation is a nice mana cooldowns. In the end, stacking spirit and getting 4pcT15 is my goal, in the harder fights it is really strong. Rejuv blanket for the win.

[Deleted]

I am going for 4pc T15 too. I don´t stack spirit, but always try to find a break point to stack mastery and spirit, where mana management is enough for the fights. Next I don´t use incarnation and prefer Soft haste buff combine with WG. I think (could be wrong) incarnation is also better for 25 man raid. For 10 man, healing output and full up your raid members as often as possible is 1 min CD with Soft much better.

Anyway 2pc bonus could work very well if your raid consist 2 tanks and 2 mele. Problem is MoP is not very good content for melee players So this bonus is much better for 25 man.

[NightZero88]

Anyway 2pc bonus could work very well if your raid consist 2 tanks and 2 mele. Problem is MoP is not very good content for melee players So this bonus is much better for 25 man.

This isn't necessarily true. I've found from my raiding which does contain 2 tanks and 2 melee sometimes 3 that SM range is too small. If I put it on a tank typically the melee standing behind the boss will not be close enough, especially on the massive boss models that seem to be every fight this tier. Sadly when I SM a tank, it only hits that tank or myself if I run in and drop it (typical strat in LFR).

[dalliah1]

My performance seems to have gone down since I got my tier 15 4 set. Perhaps I haven't broken it in yet but as far as numbers go, I haven't seen improvement, if anything it's gone down. O_o

[Deleted]

You should think what benefits you have from giving up 4set tier 14 for 2 set tier 15. Personally i believe that for 25man (doing it correctly) since i was trying it tonight in a group (2 other people with rejuv on them) and did't work they were not getting swiftmend heals as they should so not sure why it was happening . Unless i miss something if they have a rejuv and are in swiftmend circle they should get the heal also ("up to 4 targets").

Using 2 set bonus from each tier is quite good right now (25man). When you go to 3043 haste you sacrifice 1 tick of wg which is roughly how much heal? (x 6 targets then check your logs for how many times you cast wild growth in fights and see how much healing you lose vs having lets say 1% more on mastery * or more * ) make the maths and see if it helps or not . On the other hand you can keep a high ammount of spirit and mastery this way (though its abit difficult to reach 3043 exactly since kinda hard to reforge haste in our current pieces).

Personally if you use sotf there is no reason to go to 6652 and perhaps not even worth going to 5437 (and i had been using sotf since summer) for 1 extra tick. If you use incarnation and can get away (which i really want to see what gear you are using) with sacrificing spirit then the extra tick can show its power. But to be honest i havent seen many top druids as it was mentioned above with 6652 and incarnation . Most are around 3043 and using incarnation.

Back to the topic an interesting question is that our tier 15 4set is actually make the value of extra ticks of wild growth decreasing since a sotf rejuv can be a very powerful way to top a target (e.g. tank getting hit alot) with 4set bonus.

If only healing touch was viable as a spell and as a glyph it could help make swiftmend a real tool to be used.

p.s. i wish we could have 6 pieces of tier instead of 5 like in the past.

[Skouse]

I gave up spirit and crit to reach the breakpoint 6652.... no loss at all. (I currently raid with 8K spirit in 25 man and dont have mana issues)

If you can reach the 6652 without sacrificing Mastery / int then its the best option to increase your throughput.

As per Ysoph's equation, I find myself gemming mastery over int now anyway.

Giving up that much spirit seems unprecedented for 25 man heroic progression. I don't know how you get by with the sheer amount of casts required for, say, Heroic Primordius or Council. But I'm curious how this works out - who is your character if you don't mind me asking? (I am Skouse on US-Blackrock)

I am doing something very different in that I value spirit a tremendous amount more, particularly for progression -- and this is working out fabulously. I plan on keeping 4pc T14 until I can get my hands on 4pc T15, just so that I can continue to use SotF seamlessly paired with WG.
--
As for the bonuses, 2pc is too situational for me to like it very much - 4 injured people stacked in an 8yd radius happens less often than it should for this to be considered a great bonus. 4pc is great for progression raiding - especially now that overhealing gets banked in mushrooms.

[Deleted]

@Skouse Chubbycáke on EU Draenor

I literally tried yesterday to move to the 3043 break-point and increase my spirit & mastery, but the lowest i could get my haste to was in the 4-5K region, I just have too much of it!!

On top of this, my mastery didn't see a huge increase 3-400 mastery increase and only managed to get my spirit to 10K. Therefore i didn't see any point of leaving the 6652 break-point when it was so easy to get to. So 5 minutes before raid last night I rushed a reforge and regem back to where I was so its not currently perfect.

I haven't had a lot of experience in Tot HC 25, spent a night on Jin' Rokh hc yesterday and I didn't have mana issues going to the 3rd pool so i feel everything is fine there, In my current set-up i cant actually get to a point where I'm in a good break-point and have plenty of spirit as well as not sacrificing mastery.

Any help is welcomed on my setup, and i emplor you to see if you can find a better reforge/ gemming option for me.

One question Skouse: I thought the preferred break-point for SOTF spec was 5730 haste, yet you run at 3047 haste, Something I've missed or don't know about?

[Deleted]

5730 hast give you a 15° tick on WG. 7% increase healing on a spell wich represent ~20% of your total healing.
While 2K6 mastery is around 5% more heal on all your spell.

[Thalur]

5730 hast give you a 15° tick on WG. 7% increase healing on a spell wich represent ~20% of your total healing.
While 2K6 mastery is around 5% more heal on all your spell.

No, this is not about SotF (and the SotF breakpoint you mean is 5437). 6652 haste gives a 9th tick to non-SotF Wild Growth. However, currently in no situation is it worth to get more than 3043 haste, regardless of spec.
The only reason to go for a higher breakpoint would be if you have so much haste on gear that you cannot reforge away enough. However, seeing that all VP gear is crit rather than haste, a better solution would be to switch some gear.

@Chubby with your current gear you can get down to 3970 haste, giving you 1200 more of both mastery and spirit (or crit). That means by replacing one haste item, you'll have no problems to get to the usual 3043 configuration.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

As a Druid your job is to spam rejuv, as always. To achieve this end, you should be stacking spirit. Being able to cast more rejuvs on more targets taking damage is going to be more effective for your raid than having the rejuvs you can currently cast be somewhat stronger. For 10 man,spirit may be less important, because there isn't really as much you need to do as a healer.

[Skouse]

Any help is welcomed on my setup, and i emplor you to see if you can find a better reforge/ gemming option for me.

One question Skouse: I thought the preferred break-point for SOTF spec was 5730 haste, yet you run at 3047 haste, Something I've missed or don't know about?

I am sticking with the 3043 window because, as Bouletos pointed out, I'm faced with increasing one spell's healing (with SotF) by ~7% at the cost of ~2400 worth of mastery or spirit (or crit, but taking into account that you'd otherwise be reforging that into mastery, it's really just an indirect loss to mastery). What this comes down to is either ~1354 Mp5, 5% mastery, or perhaps a combination of both. Because WG accounts for, give or take, 20% of total healing - math-wise, this does not equate to an overall healing gain.

The reason I place spirit so high on my priorities is really because of the unpredictable nature of healing. It is definitely troubling to end a fight with 20%+ mana left, but the only time I find this happens to me is when a boss is on farm, or even on the second kill. I feel like taking the reforge-out-of-spirit approach would boost my HPS, but only on fights where it is unnecessary for it to be boosted.

On H progression, the unfamiliar raid will likely take excess damage, and the fight may take longer than expected. Many times I find myself going into rejuv-blanket mode to keep the raid stabilized. Sure, more mastery would increase my healing per rejuv, but I wouldn't be able to apply it as liberally to as many people (which in cases like the later heroics, is most everyone at times). And sure, more haste would increase my WG healing done, but at the same time, my #1 Spell would be weakened as a consequence (not to mention every spell other than WG). I just feel it's more beneficial to have a good Mp5 safety net in these situations.

Regarding your setup, you seem to have pure throughput in mind. Bigger heal numbers, but less casts. I can understand why this would make sense for 10 mans (less than half the people = much less # of casts needed) however I do question its integrity with H25 progression in mind. I have to say the 6652 haste made me genuinely curious, because I have noticed some druids use it and live by it - and I still think it will at some point be worth achieving, with gearscores going up - but I don't think that time has come yet. If you're comfortable with your healing, and your group isn't suffering from anything that could be corrected with more healing, then I can't really suggest anything - but otherwise I'd recommend replacing a haste piece with ideally mastery, allowing yourself to effectively reforge to 3043 haste. For gemming I obviously prioritize spirit - with spi/mas being a good fit for yellows and spi/int for reds.