Girl 14 raped on bus.

[Rodna]

So you think a young girl going off alone with a couple of unknown young men instead of staying downstairs among lots of random people doesn’t increase the likelihood of victimization? Are you really trying to put that forth?

Where in the article does it say she went off "with a couple of unknown young men"? It doesn't. See how you're inventing details that were not in the report, in order to make this the victim's fault? No, I don't suppose you do.

[A Day to Remember]

Where in the article does it say she went off "with a couple of unknown young men"? It doesn't. See how you're inventing details that were not in the report, in order to make this the victim's fault? No, I don't suppose you do.

"The 14-year-old sat downstairs with a friend but then moved to the upper deck where she was assaulted and raped by two men." "Detectives said the girl engaged in conversation with two men who had boarded the bus in the city centre."

Thats what the article says, like it or not.

[vetinari]

Advise young women to take precautions against being raped = rape supporter.

Advise young women to not take precautions against being raped = righteous crusader against rape.

...

[Felya]

Or those who think better choices could have been made on the victims part but that the rapists are monsters who need to b dealt with...You guys who scream blame the victim however can't seem to understand the idea that people DO make stupid choices..But that it doesn't mean we don't blame/want to punish the rapists themselves.

I think it should be pretty understandable why people can't get over the choices a rapist made, to get to the choices the victim made. I'm pretty sure if she had a choice to not be raped, she would take it. It doesn't mean you don't want to punish the rapist, it just means you would rather talk about the victims choices, instead of lack there of.

[DEATHETERNAL]

Where in the article does it say she went off "with a couple of unknown young men"? It doesn't. See how you're inventing details that were not in the report, in order to make this the victim's fault? No, I don't suppose you do.

"The 14-year-old sat downstairs with a friend but then moved to the upper deck where she was assaulted and raped by two men."

"Detectives said the girl engaged in conversation with two men who had boarded the bus in the city centre."

Reading really is hard isn't it?

[Rodna]

Where has ANYONE said such things?

If she never put herself in such huge risk then she likely would not have been raped

There's no way around interpreting that as anything other than "it's your fault you were raped".

---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 02:47 AM ----------

"The 14-year-old sat downstairs with a friend but then moved to the upper deck where she was assaulted and raped by two men."

"Detectives said the girl engaged in conversation with two men who had boarded the bus in the city centre."

Reading really is hard isn't it?

Apparently it is, since you are incapable of reading how it DOES NOT SAY she followed them upstairs. It's almost like you've never went to an area by yourself and then chatted with people already there or something.

[Felya]

Advise young women to take precautions against being raped = rape supporter.

Advise young women to not take precautions against being raped = righteous crusader against rape.

...

Do you understand why people might have a problem with saying she should have acted differently to avoid the rape? There is a reason why saying 'she shouldn't have worn that dress' is frowned upon and it's not the assumption that the criminal should avoid punishment.

[Mormolyce]

I'd like to live in that Disney world of yours. Actually, even Disney movies aren't as safe as your imaginary world.

There is nowhere here in Melbourne that I would call a rape victim "stupid" for being in. Not even Coburg.

---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 02:49 AM ----------

Advise young women to take precautions against being raped = rape supporter.

Advise young women to not take precautions against being raped = righteous crusader against rape.

...

Nobody here is advising young women anything, they're just calling a victim stupid after the fact. Or her parents.

[Rodna]

"The 14-year-old sat downstairs with a friend but then moved to the upper deck where she was assaulted and raped by two men." "Detectives said the girl engaged in conversation with two men who had boarded the bus in the city centre."

Thats what the article says, like it or not.

And like it or not it does not actually say she followed those men upstairs. It simply says "moved".

[Adam Jensen]

I'm not blaming the victim, just questioning her actions. It seems a bit pointless to simply ignore the huge risk she put herself in if you intend to actually do something about stopping these acts from happening. If she never put herself in such huge risk then she likely would not have been raped, or if the men came downstairs and attempted it, the driver could've intervened, or any of the passengers downstairs also.

Those men need to be made an example of, as I said, and she also needs to be educated on not doing this type of risky, pointless stuff in an obviously risky situation at best. Feel free to think only doing half the job to stop this sort of thing from happening again is enough though.

Yes, she put herself in a risk.

That doesn't excuse the rape, nor does it give any of those fucking cretins any leniency for what they did. Nor does it mean she doesn't deserve any help to cope with the crime.

[Felya]

"The 14-year-old sat downstairs with a friend but then moved to the upper deck where she was assaulted and raped by two men."

"Detectives said the girl engaged in conversation with two men who had boarded the bus in the city centre."

Reading really is hard isn't it?

Why do you think they didn't approach her, because she was sitting alone? She was with a friend, who I think due to the size of busses, was a few feet away.

[Rodna]

Are you serious? You are literally the definition of a hypocrite, your quoting me when I asked you to provide a proper argument

I supplied the argument in my first reply. You've continuously ignored it in favour of delving into bickering about being insulted, so I'm going to assume you have no retort.

[Austilias]

The girl's parents should be given ample opportunity to castrate the perpetrator at their leisure. Given that society seems to have no real concept of justice these days, i'd say the perpetrator will get...2 years, tops.

[Mormolyce]

Yes, they can how about accompanying their 14 years old daughter during night? or ensuring that their children stay safe... like parents actually do.

So a 14 year old needs a parent to chaperone her everywhere at night? It was only 10:30pm even...

What kind of Mad Max area of the UK do YOU live in?

[Crissi]

But its a completely different thing in this case, what everyone is rightfully shocked at is that a 14 year old girl was taking a night bus with her 14 year old friend in a city. Without parents or even an older friend, theres a multitude of things that can happen, robbery ect.

and the fault completely lies with the men who did it, not the woman. The woman did nothing illegal, the men did. it doesnt matter what actions she took.

[AeneasBK]

I don't really think its "victim blaming" to questions someones actions that let to them being a victim of a crime, provided you still are in favor of prosecution of the criminal. I'm not the most eloquent person so that phrase may fall victim to people who want to see it their way to make a point of it but anyway...

If I left my car running while I went into Wal-Mart for an hour and it was gone when I came back, would you not shake your head at my stupidity, while still supporting my right to prosecute the people who took it (if they found them)?

If I went to a drug den to buy crack and got shot, would you not call me a fool, even while still wanting the shooter to face punishment?

If I get hit by a drunk driver, but I way jaywalking at midnight wearing black while texting with headphones in, wouldn't you laugh at how dumb it is to walk into roads paying no attention, but still want the drunk driver to go to jail?

I guess my point is its possible to discuss how crime can be prevented better, without saying that the person who did not take those preventative measures is "at fault".

Or at least I think it is.

Only sensible post so far. I'd comment on the other interesting thing in this thread but it got me infrated for remarking on it before

[DEATHETERNAL]

And like it or not it does not actually say she followed those men upstairs. It simply says "moved".

So you think a young girl going off alone with a couple of unknown young men instead of staying downstairs among lots of random people doesn’t increase the likelihood of victimization? Are you really trying to put that forth?

And if she moved up there to be alone with them as you are implying, then you are affirming the correctness of my statement that you stated was made up. If she went up there to be alone with them, she went off and was alone with a couple of unknown men instead of staying downstairs among lots of random people. At least get your argument straight.

Why do you think they didn't approach her, because she was sitting alone? She was with a friend, who I think due to the size of busses, was a few feet away.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. She left her friend to go upstairs.

[vetinari]

There is nowhere here in Melbourne that I would call a rape victim "stupid" for being in. Not even Coburg.[COLOR="red"]

Sunshine at 2 am.

Nobody here is advising young women anything, they're just calling a victim stupid after the fact. Or her parents.

When you say, "this woman did something stupid" or "her parents were stupid", the implication is "don't do what they did".

[Mormolyce]

No, but choosing to be alone with two older guys that you dont know is far from wise. Sure you shouldnt expect to get raped in a public place but putting yourself in dangerous situations is fucking retarded. If someone goes swimming with sharks... and gets eaten by a shark do we place no blame on the idiotic victim? OMG IM SUCH A RAPE ENABLER!!!!111!!eleven!!!11!11!!!

I'll remember that next time I sit next to an older man on public transport. Which is to say every day.

Man I'm retarded! Serves me right if I get raped.

[Felya]

But its a completely different thing in this case, what everyone is rightfully shocked at is that a 14 year old girl was taking a night bus with her 14 year old friend in a city.

People are shocked that 14 year olds use public transportation when accompanied by a friend? It doesn't seem shocking... I grew up in NYC, it's common to see kids on public transportation at night. You are always told to bring a friend, which it appears she did. I was working at 14 and there was little option but take the bus in a city at night.