Frost gets about 8% out of it over burning, at about 43% uptime. Elemental, the highest rate, gets about 7% at ~50%. Realize those are two of the three highest modifier specs, on high haste value specs. Destro, one of the lower rates but still haste stacking, gets about 2% over burning at ~16% uptime. I'd check more specs, but I'm lazy and it takes a while to sim each one twice.
Fire's in a pretty damned good spot, and it only gets better as the patches go by. Inflating its damage because of a bug puts it out of line.Are we 'that good' with the way it was before? And at what point does nerfing the legendary gem make it not feel very much 'legendary' anymore?
What about our first legendary gem? We can't even use it anymore. And you can't really talk of a legendary feel. Everyone and their dog has, or will have, this gem. It's like Dragonwrath, casters got balanced around having it, and we're balanced around having this gem as well. Feeling legendary doesn't really hold much water these days.
That's a fair complaint, but also entirely subjective. We've had some pretty low uptime trinkets. I can't help you there.[...]also, the gem has to feel useful, something up 10% of the time isn't very fun either.
Then again, why are you so up in arms about it specifically? You have said you don't want to use MI for DPS. MI does nearly the DPS this gem provides for fire. It'll do even more if it procs during MI's duration, and more again in 5.3 when they get pets to queue casts.
The problem here is that legendary is starting to feel like it doesn't mean anything anymore with stuff like this. IMO that's pretty damaging unless they make a new item classification that's higher which is kinda lame. Its the same thing as the degradation of epic over the last few expansions. At lvl 100 are we going to be wearing legendary gems and enchants in everything and trying to make our new super awesome epic legendary supreme weapons in some kind of screwed up DBZ mentality? lol
Last edited by Turkey One; 2013-04-20 at 06:55 AM.
Well, they've still got artifact as an item class. But yeah. People wanted to be part of the legendary, so now everyone is. Though, if memory serves, we're supposed to get one of those one/two per guild items come 5.4. We'll see if they abandoned that idea entirely soon enough.
If they have, then legendary simply means quested, slightly better than raid quality item. Which isn't a terrible idea either, but they then need that new carrot to go for at the high end...
Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2013-04-20 at 06:58 AM.
What i dont get is why people are talking about combustion. Even if the meta procs when combustion is off cd, what are the chance you will build up(or already have it build) ignite in the 10s time window ? ill tell you, very slim.
My biggest problem is the duration of the meta for fire, not the proc rate, even though that is ridicules as well. Its the same reason i am sceptical about the animus trinket as well, I am going to use it, but i dont count on the proc to be a gain for my combustion. The meta along with every other 10s duration proc is in practice a bomb buff where you can have 2 buffed bombs for its proc(one at start and one just before it expires), and ofc a buff to Fb/pyro.
This combined with getting your procs at bad times, movement, not being able to dps the boss etc will decrease the benefit even more than the 3% avg dmg gain that kuni stated above. And with such a low amount of procs it is likely that we will be wasting or partially wasting a lot of them.
Like others have mentioned this meta is just Rng ontop of Rng spiced with some more rng, its pretty stupid. And with that said keep in mind that i normally laugh at people calling fire Rng, when in fact there is little rng left in fire.
So what is the proc rate supposed to be for fire after that hotfix ? 5% ?
If so that's really silly , and the normal legendary is way better...
Nice, got it thursday and now it's nerfed, good WoW...had 4 procs (8% uptime) against horridon lfr. That's what I call a legandary, NOT! Well, ofc it procced when it had alter time.
Yeah , considering it procs way more often on horridon , that's roughly a 5-6% uptime.
So i guess that's a 3% dps boost. Considering the old one is like a 4-5% dps boost , there's no reason to keep it , and even more since it is a rppm proc , and it can proc 2 times in a row and no more for 6 minutes.
And Horridon as a multidot encounter should not have any influence on an increased uptime since RPPM "does not care" about multiple targets.
EDIT: Was there any annoucement that the rppm rates should be "fixed" with the last server restart?
Last edited by Smaikiii; 2013-04-20 at 03:36 PM.
Kinda does , since you get more target , so the chance to proc is way greater .
The overall uptime should be a bit higher , since your chance to get procs is higher.
Btw , no announcement about the fix .
What is the point in making a legendary gem that can be 10 times better for a class than for another ?
---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 12:21 PM ----------
Regardless, they really need to fix this. Fire shouldn't even be considering the Burning meta especially when you can just buy that while we had to do a TON of raiding in both T14 and T15 to get to this point.
if you consider switching a 3% dps upgrade to an old meta then you aren't a real deeps player.
That's like really dumb , and just makes me wonder if they're playing their own game at this point.
And they're always , always below locks , on every fight.
Edit: Looking closer, Warlocks STILL beat Mages (even Fire) on 25H, 25N, 10H, and 10N (For average parses; top parses are unfair to judge Fire on due to RNG), and yet their coefficients are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than ours. Why the fuck are they getting great RPPM and we get shit RPPM, especially when if it proccs w/o Combustion, it doesn't do us much good?
---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 12:59 PM ----------
Seriously though, someone needs to get ahold of Blizzard about this.
- Fire is lower than Warlocks on average parses across the board (all 4 difficulties).
- Fire's coefficient is way too low to be of any real use, especially when the odds of it lining up with Combustion are abysmal. In addition, All 3 Warlock speccs have a higher coefficient despite being higher DPS (and Affliction benefits significantly more than we do, since their DoTs need no preparation to use).
- Fire doesn't NEED to be nerfed because it's middle/above middle of the pack. (or if Fire's nerfed, Warlocks need an even bigger nerf to keep us all in line).
Feel free to use my parses on the dummy to post to them. (Links will take you to the posts in the forum. Click the links in them for my WoLs)
- http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20882209 (Tests 1 and 2, both being Fire with a somewhat-normal rotation. Duration: ~6m)
- http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20883621 (Test 3, checking Frost's RPPM on it, and it definitely works as intended. Duration: ~6m)
- http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20884008 (Test 4, trying Fire again, but only using Scorch, and Frost Armor to make up for the missing raid Haste [which is actually +2% above it, but whatever]. Duration: ~20m)
Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-04-20 at 05:01 PM.
Not a single post about this on blizzard forums? What gives?? I'd do it but im perma-forum banned.
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