Atonment Avg Heal Question

[Neji]

Hello everyone, had a question I wanted to run by a few folks as I couldn't find the root cause of the issue myself. I'm comparing a log of my healer Eyllis - US-Sargeras (currently in PvP gear, will update when I get home) and Dazs - US-Stormrage who I noticed on a top parse for Horridon I believe.

Anyways, I decided to look at his council fight and my kill on council and compare some numbers. Specifically I was looking at his average atonement heals and noticed that he is getting about 54.5k per atonement heal (non-crit) while I'm only averaging 17.2k per atonement heal. His gear isn't miles ahead of mine, we use the same meta, same spirit heavy gemming style and same glyphs. I notice I use Archangel waaaaaay more often and there isn't any sort of bonus damage taken to any of the council members as far as I am aware is there? I know on a fight like Horridon or Tortos as Horridon continues to run into doors he takes progressively more damage via the bonus damage debuff and Tortos takes 25% more bonus damage when concussed so those might skew atonement healing numbers.

So what gives? I believe I'm at around a 495 item level so I'm not terribly far behind him and I can't imagine going up to 517 is going to double my atonement healing average.

Here are links to the logs.

Dazs Log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3550&e=3883
Eyllis Log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...?s=5557&e=6034
Edit: Link for Eyllis log updated to public version

Any advice here would be a great help. I'm open to any sort of criticism if it can help me increase my output. My current style involves keeping holy fire up for the bonus damage provided by the glyph and smiting constantly to achieve a 5 stack of evangelism. I mix in penance offensively or defensively as needed but tend to hold back on the penance. When I compare our average damage done he's definitely using a lot more offensive penances and his averages for smite (51k per) and penance (64k per) are definitely better than my smite (30k per) and my penance (44k per). Is it really just a matter of difference in raw spell power? He is sporting a thunderforged staff while I'm rocking the LFR healing mace from Empress.

Thanks again in advance for any help or advice.

[Hyperbolic]

1) access denied to second link.
2) you don't appear to be using solace and insanity. He is. Therefore what would be Holy Fire damage is separated out of atonement healing and treated as a different healing ability in world of logs. The dot from holy fire heals in very very small amounts. This would bring your average atonement heal waaaaay down. This is probably what you are seeing.

[Neji]

My apologies - the link should now be made public.

Interest bit about the holy fire bringing down the average but even then - if you compare the average smite damage done (which translates 100% of that into a heal assuming it wasn't on me) then it still doesn't explain how his can be hitting for so much more.

I understand that the Atonement listing might be lower because of the Holy Fire bringing it down but looking at the damage done by each spell shows a huge discepency.

[blargh312]

My apologies - the link should now be made public.

Interest bit about the holy fire bringing down the average but even then - if you compare the average smite damage done (which translates 100% of that into a heal assuming it wasn't on me) then it still doesn't explain how his can be hitting for so much more.

I understand that the Atonement listing might be lower because of the Holy Fire bringing it down but looking at the damage done by each spell shows a huge discepency.

It's still private.

If you add his Solace into Atonement non-crits his average becomes ~27k. You logged out in PvP gear but judging by your max ilvl of 494, it's safe to say he has much better gear than you. Try comparing your healing to someone with gear that's similar to yours.

Also not sure if you're using the Smite glyph, but that could have something to do with it.

[Neji]

Name suprseckretlogguild
Realm US-Sargeras
Faction Alliance
Timezone America/New_York
Homepage No registered url
Default report visibility Public
Disable premium rankings No

Try refreshing the page? Hmm, I guess the jump from 494 to 517 really is larger than I imagine. I'll look for logs from folks closer to my item level. Thanks!

[blargh312]

You've gotta remember that this guy has over 35k SP fully buffed. With your ilvl you're probably about 10k under that, and offensive Penance, Smite and HF all have pretty big SP coefficients.

[espoire]

You've gotta remember that this guy has over 35k SP fully buffed. With your ilvl you're probably about 10k under that, and offensive Penance, Smite and HF all have pretty big SP coefficients.

Yep. Atonement healing is extremely gear-dependent.

[Neji]

Hmm, even so, I just picked up a new staff tonight and am sitting at approx 25k spell power while Dazs is at 28k. Is 3000 spell power really going to double the average my smites? That seems... a bit extreme. Guess I'll find out when I reach that level of spell power. Thanks for the help guys.

[twistedmynd]

The trick to good atonements is to take advantage of your multipliers. Really be good at hitting things in execute range for twist of fate procs, and use Horridon for the increased damage taken modifier.

[babylon]

he is getting about 54.5k per atonement heal (non-crit) while I'm only averaging 17.2k per atonement heal.

something to remember - if your smite* crits, the heal coming from it does not have to be a crit but it still has the size of a smite* crit, so perhaps it would be worth to check "damage by spell" tab and see amounts of crits there (i cannot access your logs so icould not check that myself)

*and other spells triggering atonement

[Neji]

Ah crap, I think I figured out why nobody could see my own log - had no idea the logs could be public or private per individual report. I went in and made my Throne of Thunder (as well as a ToES 10) public as well. Sorry for the confusion. Also I'm currently logged out in my PvE gear for what it is worth. @babylon - I did compare the damage done as that was my primary indicator since the atonement listing mushes anything that causes atonement together. This is where I was pulling the averages from initially.

Edited initial post at the top with new link to my own log.

[Deleted]

I noticed you just aquired new weapon which makes my wild guess bit harder... Average ilevel doesnt matter that much if you're wearing lower ilevel weapon due to sheer amount of spellpower you get from weapon. Also remember that in raid enviroment you have 20% increased spellpower from buffs (inner fire and mage buff, you are using inner fire right?).

Currently you have with new weapon 22.8k sp *1.2 = 27.36K
Other guy 28.2k sp * 1.2 = 33.8K.

Smite coefficient is 85.6% so ---> (33.8K-27.36)*0.856 = 5.51K. You have roughly 3.5K difference in intellect. This should be pretty close the difference you and him have now. What weapon were you using before? Or do new log with new weapon? He gets some more stats from buffs due to higher intelligence but that is worth only 200 damage per smite.

The numbers are off a lot since there's ~17k difference on average smite damage. For comparasion I have 24.2k spellpower and my smite hits for 47k average in raid enviroment without damage buffs (checked from log).

So overall seems really bizarre and I can't think what's causing it... Best way would be to do new log with your new weapon and compare the numbers then. Sorry I couldn't really help. Maybe someone notices error in my post and gets us on right track.

[Chrispotter]

Name suprseckretlogguild
Realm US-Sargeras
Faction Alliance
Timezone America/New_York
Homepage No registered url
Default report visibility Public
Disable premium rankings No

Try refreshing the page? Hmm, I guess the jump from 494 to 517 really is larger than I imagine. I'll look for logs from folks closer to my item level. Thanks!

Yes 23 ilvls is alot of gear. This is bassically the reason why. When you said " we are close in gear" i was imagining a gear difference of maybe 2-3 ilvls. 23 ilvls is a crazy amount. Bassically, he is a whole tier of gear ahead of you.

[Neji]

I noticed you just aquired new weapon which makes my wild guess bit harder... Average ilevel doesnt matter that much if you're wearing lower ilevel weapon due to sheer amount of spellpower you get from weapon. Also remember that in raid enviroment you have 20% increased spellpower from buffs (inner fire and mage buff, you are using inner fire right?).

Currently you have with new weapon 22.8k sp *1.2 = 27.36K
Other guy 28.2k sp * 1.2 = 33.8K.

Smite coefficient is 85.6% so ---> (33.8K-27.36)*0.856 = 5.51K. You have roughly 3.5K difference in intellect. This should be pretty close the difference you and him have now. What weapon were you using before? Or do new log with new weapon? He gets some more stats from buffs due to higher intelligence but that is worth only 200 damage per smite.

The numbers are off a lot since there's ~17k difference on average smite damage. For comparasion I have 24.2k spellpower and my smite hits for 47k average in raid enviroment without damage buffs (checked from log).

So overall seems really bizarre and I can't think what's causing it... Best way would be to do new log with your new weapon and compare the numbers then. Sorry I couldn't really help. Maybe someone notices error in my post and gets us on right track.

Before I was using the LFR Empresses weapon with the 500 intellect gem (no bonus socket) and the inscribed fan from crafting for my weapons.

I took a look at a disc priest in another guild I run with and she's sporting a 504 item level and her smites average 40k per. I guess it really is the gap in the gear. (Link to her log)

Eyllis Smites @ 495 item level: 33k/per
Io Smites @ 504 item level: 40k/per
Dazs Smites @ 517 item level: 55k/per

Seems like the scaling just gets crazy the higher the gear and spell power. Very interesting. Thanks for all the advice and help so far. I'll be running with Eyllis this weekend and should have a new log. Hopefully things improve!

[MattCauthron]

Scaling this tier is ridiculous. We bring in new recruits with ilvl just slightly higher than you and they get outhealed by our shadowpriest and tanks not to mention dying to every other AoE because of blizzard tuning based on certain ilvl stam values. With just a 20 ilvl gap I'll often put out 3x the hps.

You have to be very much completely carried until your gear catches up to everyone else... I'm not sure what I think about the system. Gear scaling has never been so drastic.

[Zene]

Before I was using the LFR Empresses weapon with the 500 intellect gem (no bonus socket) and the inscribed fan from crafting for my weapons.

I took a look at a disc priest in another guild I run with and she's sporting a 504 item level and her smites average 40k per. I guess it really is the gap in the gear. (Link to her log)

Eyllis Smites @ 495 item level: 33k/per
Io Smites @ 504 item level: 40k/per
Dazs Smites @ 517 item level: 55k/per

Seems like the scaling just gets crazy the higher the gear and spell power. Very interesting. Thanks for all the advice and help so far. I'll be running with Eyllis this weekend and should have a new log. Hopefully things improve!

That's real interesting. Do you know if the Smite glyph was being used at all? I'm a new disc priest and have been using it. Is it a non standard glyph? I'm curious how many smites will be boosted by 20% and how effective it would be over a fight.

[Wuga]

Beyond just the base gear differences (as people have mentioned, smite/penance both have >1x sp coefficients), you should also keep in mind buff/proc uptimes... for example:

- you use AA much more than him, which means your evangelism is below 5 stacks much more often (and 20% is a big damage buff to throw away)
- he has 50% jade spirit uptime, which is another ~1k sp, while you are using windsong, which is 0 sp
- he has 50% tof uptime, which is about another 7% damage... you are using pi, which does nothing for average hit

I'm also not sure whether you're using inner fire or not but that's another ~2.5k sp as well.

[Neji]

That's real interesting. Do you know if the Smite glyph was being used at all? I'm a new disc priest and have been using it. Is it a non standard glyph? I'm curious how many smites will be boosted by 20% and how effective it would be over a fight.

Yes, all 3 of us are using the glyph for the 20% when holy fire is up.

Beyond just the base gear differences (as people have mentioned, smite/penance both have >1x sp coefficients), you should also keep in mind buff/proc uptimes... for example:

- you use AA much more than him, which means your evangelism is below 5 stacks much more often (and 20% is a big damage buff to throw away)
- he has 50% jade spirit uptime, which is another ~1k sp, while you are using windsong, which is 0 sp
- he has 50% tof uptime, which is about another 7% damage... you are using pi, which does nothing for average hit

I'm also not sure whether you're using inner fire or not but that's another ~2.5k sp as well.

Ohh, I had totally forgotten about the jade spirit enchant. Being an alt that is rather strapped for cash I usually don't buy the most expensive enchants out there, especially for LFR gear. Hmm, I'll have to look into ToF - can't see it being useful on single target fights like Horridon where he'll be my primary focus for smite/holy fire as the adds die too quickly to benefit from the glyph and give that he'll not be at low enough health until the end of the fight...

Either way you guys have given me a lot to think on. Perhaps I'll bite the bullet and pick up jade spirit enchant.