Rationalize this damage for me please.

[asb]

I've always had to be cautious of warrior damage but never have i died that fast befor thats what really caught me by surprise. The only real difference is the Tyrannical weapon and if its that HUGE of an upgrade i can't imagine whats going to happen when everyone gets it.

Yeah, new weapons are a pretty big upgrade. I haven't done any of my own numbers on this, but I remember reading Veev comment that last season's t2 weapons were about a 12% damage increase over t1, and s13 honor to t1 is probably quite a comparable difference.

And yeah, I think damage could be pretty obscene this season. I'm especially worried about their 5.3 adjustments to battle fatigue and healer pvp power, since right now it's looking like healers will have pretty severely reduced throughput after that.

[Korgoth]

A. Ring of Peace has what a 45s CD and completely and totally counters his 3min CDs, and you didnt use it. B. You have other CDs you can use to counter his CDs effectively, disarm, touch of karma, pretty sure you bastard have a root and can move 100 yrds in like 2s, might want to try that. C. You only have 60% resil. 200k x .4 = 80, 200k x .32 = 64. That shit makes a real difference.

[Coraulten]

How did I know this thread would be complaining about warrior damage? Why is it so difficult for people to accept that the class that is designed to hit hard...

Actually hits hard?

Are you all this surprised when fire turns out to be hot after all, and water is indeed wet?

I wasn't aware an open discussion about some high numbers i experience recently was crying. Please state where blizzard said the design of the warrior class is to hit hard. Not that i disagree with the statement but you treat it as fact and as such i request your evidence.

You compare a concept that blizzard can change on a whim to a unchangeable aspect of nature.

---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 07:51 PM ----------

A. Ring of Peace has what a 45s CD and completely and totally counters his 3min CDs, and you didnt use it. B. You have other CDs you can use to counter his CDs effectively, disarm, touch of karma, pretty sure you bastard have a root and can move 100 yrds in like 2s, might want to try that. C. You only have 60% resil. 200k x .4 = 80, 200k x .32 = 64. That shit makes a real difference.

His sustained damage was enough to force my stuns at a moment that was not preferable. My resil aside because i know that plays a huge factor the picture from the time of the shockwave took roughly 5 seconds. In that time frame i trinketed the the shockwave and managed to get a single roll off and then he charged me to finish it. Touch of karma requires that i be faceing the target which i was not able to via roll and had i attempted to turn around ( you may look at this and be like "well it only takes a split second to turn around you must be a keyboard turner or something") i may have gotten hit by another 100k crit. Even if i managed to get the karma off he could have easily broken that threshold with his burst.

Please don't mistake this for me crying for warrior nurfs. I was a bit shocked at this due to my experience dueling many warriors and them not doing nearly this damage with similar to better gear and wondering what was up. I do believe the damage is at least manageable.

On a side note, theres your deep wounds crit

[Flaks]

Yeah skill trumps getting globaled in the time frame of a shockwave --> trinket ---> heroic leap---Charge

To put it in perspective you can see the amount of ticks deep wounds did from the application of it via the 85k mortal strike.

The gear discrepancy between him and the warriors has to be absolutely massive. AND the warrior has to have a t2 weapon to possibly get those types of numbers.

As it is, a warrior and the squishiest class in the game (mage without damage reduction armor) in equal gear will show you that its literally impossible for a warrior to get more than a 100k crit using any one ability unless some outside buffs are being included as well. Hell, I've personally never even seen 80k.

[Korgoth]

On a side note, theres your deep wounds crit

Actually I was off by 1k. The deep wounds QQ thread was claiming 60k crits.

58k x 160% for pvp power stacking = 92.8k, x .6 for base resilience = 55.68k, so you'd have to have almost no resilience. Now on a semi geared player with 60% resil that would be a 37.12 crit. With full 3min CDs, and a 16% crit chance, 37k on a player with 60% resil. At 68% resil, which you should be around, thats only about 30k on a crit; and again only during 3min CDs.

Then again why a monk is eating a warriors 3min CDs is beyond me. Trinket, ToK; that doesnt work why? "All damage you take is redirected to the enemy target as Nature damage over 6 sec instead of you. Damage cannot exceed your total health. Lasts for 10 sec." + Your damage you are still doing to him. That's 6s he either reck bursts himself, or stops attacking.

Or Trinket Ring of Peace.

2 CDs that guarantee you live through warrior burst.

[Coraulten]

The gear discrepancy between him and the warriors has to be absolutely massive. AND the warrior has to have a t2 weapon to possibly get those types of numbers.

As it is, a warrior and the squishiest class in the game (mage without damage reduction armor) in equal gear will show you that its literally impossible for a warrior to get more than a 100k crit using any one ability unless some outside buffs are being included as well. Hell, I've personally never even seen 80k.

As you could imagine i was surprised being on the receiving end of it. He has T1 Tyrannical. And i've dueled warriors who have had similar to better gear who couldn't pull those numbers while bursting. He did not have any secondary buffs, the first thing i did after see that was inspect and look at his spec/buffs.

I dueled him a few times after and he didn't even pop cds those times due to his sustained damage easily forceing my CDs 50-60k MS crits were not rare.

[Illiterate]

As a monk you have many ways to counter his cd's instantly. Not only that but you are gemming pvp power and have dreadful gear, so idk what you expect.

[Coraulten]

Actually I was off by 1k. The deep wounds QQ thread was claiming 60k crits.



Then again why a monk is eating a warriors 3min CDs is beyond me. Trinket, ToK; that doesnt work why? "All damage you take is redirected to the enemy target as Nature damage over 6 sec instead of you. Damage cannot exceed your total health. Lasts for 10 sec." + Your damage you are still doing to him. That's 6s he either reck bursts himself, or stops attacking.

Or Trinket Ring of Peace.

2 CDs that guarantee you live through warrior burst.

Trying to get across how fast this actually happened look at the time when mortal strike was applied and how many ticks happened to put it into perspective. I literally could only trinket the shock wave then had time to roll, i couldn't even get off my Fort brew. And think about it, the Karma shield lasts for my health pool, he did my total health in damage in roughly 3 attacks counting Deepwound ticks and auto attacks. Even if i did manage to get karma off he could have easily broken it with pure damage. I was do 0 damage to him at that point i was sitting in execute range.

We can "theorycraft" all we want about what i could have done differently im not saying that needs to be nurfed due to mistakes i may have made (not saying it needs to be nurfed at all even though my opinion of it is that its too high >.<) . In the heat of the moment i had a split second decision to make, i chose to attempt to roll out of melee range long enough to get a Fort brew off along with it procing healing elixirs which could have possibly gotten me back out of execute range.

And i know people were saying like 60k ticks of deepwounds but at least this makes it somewhat more plausible.

---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 08:39 PM ----------

As a monk you have many ways to counter his cd's instantly. Not only that but you are gemming pvp power and have dreadful gear, so idk what you expect.

Oh the irony of your name. I feel as though you read merely a single sentence out of this whole thread and decided it was necessary to post based on that.

You assume that i'll have every stun/disarm/cd up when he decides to burst. Fighting against a warrior every time you engage him directly as a monk you need to have something be it your FoF, leg sweep, RoP, or disarm. Otherwise he will just destroy you.

As i stated befor in this thread multiple times a monks survivability is based on mobility and control. Controlling how much damage the target does when you go offensive, and avoiding as much uptime as possible when your control is down. So that leaves me with two cds to use defensively fortifying brew and touch of karma. As i attempted to explain earlier to someone els, the positional requirement of Touch of karma would not have let me get it off in time (in my opinion assessing the situation after it happened) so i attempted to Roll then use Fortifying brew.

Maybe if you read over the thread you would realize there was no need to state obvious facts such as my gear and cds that i have at my disposal and actually contribute to the discussion at hand.

[Valedus]

Because Windwalker monk survivability is, as you said, solely based on cooldowns and shutting down your opponent with things such as fists of fury, or a high parry chance.

With no ToK or RoP up, yeah, you're going to explode. WW takes more physical damage than a mage does. Especially if you have low resil and much less gear than him. I understand your thought process about gemming pvp power, but you will never really fully lock someone out long enough to take them down. Especially because WW needs time to build up TeB stacks, you need to be able to outlast your opponent.

[Korgoth]

Trying to get across how fast this actually happened look at the time when mortal strike was applied and how many ticks happened to put it into perspective. I literally could only trinket the shock wave then had time to roll, i couldn't even get off my Fort brew. And think about it, the Karma shield lasts for my health pool, he did my total health in damage in roughly 3 attacks counting Deepwound ticks and auto attacks. Even if i did manage to get karma off he could have easily broken it with pure damage. I was do 0 damage to him at that point i was sitting in execute range.

See your Screenshot proves you had at least 10s to react.



Also the Karma shield DOES ALL THAT DAMAGE TO HIM, so if it lasted your whole health poll, and he actually reck bursted into it, then he should be in Touch of Death range. GG you win.

[GrieverXIII]

I'm aware im not completely geared, missing out on about 5-8% resil. But this is just absurd.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...oramonk/simple

Tbh, its more a Monk issue than a Damage issue, my Monk is better geared and almost fully resil gemmed (he's in my sig) and i literally melt in seconds any time any melee connects with me, as soon as RoP and ToK are gone i'm pretty much dead guaranteed.

Being a leather class with no stealth mechanics or tanking stance (bear form) just makes monks close to unplayable atm, mobility is meant to counter that but does little when every classes have spammable snares and roots, 3 charges, 3 deathgrips, stuns and so on.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 04:11 AM ----------

See your Screenshot proves you had at least 10s to react.



Also the Karma shield DOES ALL THAT DAMAGE TO HIM, so if it lasted your whole health poll, and he actually reck bursted into it, then he should be in Touch of Death range. GG you win.

No, ToK damage is reduced by resil twice (your resil and your oponents resil), it does close to no damage. Besides, can't use ToK while stunned.

[Buxton McGraff]

You only have about 348k HP so you can't be that geared. Probably why you take so much dmg.

[Nekrosislol]

How did I know this thread would be complaining about warrior damage? Why is it so difficult for people to accept that the class that is designed to hit hard...

Actually hits hard?

Are you all this surprised when fire turns out to be hot after all, and water is indeed wet?

I remember when I hit hard as a destro lock, which was more avoidable then the insane warrior dmg now. Just sayin *nerfbatttt*

[Jawless Jones]

you have a crap load of old dreadful gear

the warrior has more pvp power than your resilience

he probably used cds

/rationalised

[Coraulten]

See your Screenshot proves you had at least 10s to react.



Also the Karma shield DOES ALL THAT DAMAGE TO HIM, so if it lasted your whole health poll, and he actually reck bursted into it, then he should be in Touch of Death range. GG you win.

He poped his burst roughly a second into the shockwave which i wasn't going to trinket until he did pop it so factoring in my reaction time i would say thats about 1.5seconds i sat in the shockwave the charge stun about 1.5 seconds. The shockwave to the ending slam is roughly 5 seconds the last 1.5sec your counting as if the i died after the full global was finished opposed to when the attack landed. I don't deny there was time to react, i argue that the time it would have taken to spin round and hit ToK i would have died reguardless. I said trinket this whole time but i think it was nimble brew due to me being healed for 52k via healing elixir.

[Deleted]

Warrior damage is good, comparable to monk imo.

I am just glad warriors dont have as much control and survivability though :-)


Also this is what happens when you gem pure PvP power and running around at 60% resil.
At least you're consistent though, even the helm socket that would net you an extra 20 PvP power + bonus stats if you took the socket bonus ;-P

[Coraulten]

Is this a joke? Half your gear is blue, you don't have a single resi gem (or resi chest enchant), and you wonder why someone with a Tyrannical weapon can destroy you...

Whats a joke is your inability to read posts. 60% resil on my part opposed to being full Malev with some Tyrannical pushing 70% roughly 10% more resil. Have explained multiple times why i have full pvp power. I'm aware more than you are at the state of my gear i know full well how resil works. If you read previous posts in this thread you would have seen where i mentioned MULTIPLE times that i've dueled many warriors with similar to better gear that have not done nearly this much damage so i was utterly taken by surprise.

---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 09:37 PM ----------

Warrior damage is good, comparable to monk imo.

I am just glad warriors dont have as much control and survivability though :-)


Also this is what happens when you gem pure PvP power and running around at 60% resil.
At least you're consistent though, even the helm socket that would net you an extra 20 PvP power + bonus stats if you took the socket bonus ;-P

Lol'd at the last part, thats more due to laziness than consistancy . But yeah as stated previously i've been manageing with my current set up and then suddenly i take a few 100k crits and its like "da fuck?". I guess the gear difference is finally catching up to my limited amount of skill.

[ebah]

Warrior probably 490+ geared and your missing 4k resi, ofc your getting raped by better geared.

[cFortyfive]

You play random bgs and do duels only, refuse to acknowledge the gear difference and as a consequence thereof the lack of ~2k resillience, ask people to rationalize why someone with a whopping 11 itemlvls advantage on you could kill you in a random string of crits in a 1on1 situation while for all we know from that screenshot you didn't happen to react at all despite having multiple tools at your disposal.
I don't know something sounds not right here.

[Terahertz]

60% resi and stacking PVP power gems not res. You're gemmed offensively when the vast majority go defensive(No idea if monks are an exception). My priest at 60% resi had the same issue if a warrior or most melee trained, it it meant I would die while putting out very low pressure. I hit 65% resi and it made a hell of a big difference.

I could save my trinket for later and play more offensive from it. I am by no means some great PVPer but I like to think I have more than a basic understanding of most things (Monks not being one).

I really don't see a need to justify the damage. Was this a duel, BG arena? Did he have any big buffs? flask, berserker? What sort of gear was he in? Warriors are not the OP class they were in 5.1-2. They are in a good place now. DK's and rogues surpass warriors currently imo.

The warrior in question I presume

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...in/Isop/simple

I presume that's the warrior yeah. Considering the warrior his gear and the OP his gear, I would've most likely hit OP with 120k-130k obliterates on my frost DK. Though the deep wounds tick is what really shocked me. No dot should hit for so much :S