Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    356

    Horridon 10m, what went wrong?

    Hi, so our guild tried on Horridon for the first time today, we wiped 13 times, some tries went pretty good, on our best tries we came to the Amani door.

    Got some logs, would be appreciated if someone could look what our biggest issue with this fight is.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2f0b15p2f0de3ki6/

  2. #2
    Your DPS is pretty terrible. The faster you kill the balcony adds, the smoother the fight will go.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Theodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,817
    Yeah the DPS is by far too low. My guild was struggling a little at first and we were doing much more DPS, but then that was pre-nerf.

  4. #4
    Ignore the teribble advice in the two posts above. More dps doesn't hurt but the answer to "why did we die?" isn't always "moar dps!!!!"

    Each door has adds that have priority over others for different reasons.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...idon-Need-Help This is the best post I could find on the target prios but for example on the second door you have to assign interupters to inteupt the venom priests otherwise they will shit poisons all over you.
    This fight is about execution. If your dps is enough to stop you getting overrun (ie you are mopping up adds just after the door closes) then you are fine.

    Key points for us were:
    - 2nd door, interupt venom priests and nuke down one then the other. Focussing matters, despite tempation this isn't an aoe fest.
    - 3rd door, kite towards 4th door, this naturally prevents too much dmg from the frozen orbs
    - 4th door, flamecasters are huge prio. Then you need to kill a bear and its shammy then the next bear and its shammy. NEVER have more than one shammy up at a time, they are bad news.

    I looked at your last attempt and it seems you got there because you got the other sources of damage under control (blazing sunlight, sandtraps, venom bolt volley wasnt perfect but not a train wreck and so on) What got you there was the deadly plague. Thats applied on melee hits and I don't think those adds can be tanked. so stun them slow them, root them (hi priests!), fear them etc to stop that debuff being applied.

    Also, get your dru to symbi the pala so he can cleanse diseases I think it is. Don't dispel too early, dispel at one stack and it will get reapplied, think to dispel at higher stacks. Any class that can self dispel should.

    Anyway, hope my ramblings set you in the right direction.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    356
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Ignore the teribble advice in the two posts above. More dps doesn't hurt but the answer to "why did we die?" isn't always "moar dps!!!!"

    Each door has adds that have priority over others for different reasons.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...idon-Need-Help This is the best post I could find on the target prios but for example on the second door you have to assign interupters to inteupt the venom priests otherwise they will shit poisons all over you.
    This fight is about execution. If your dps is enough to stop you getting overrun (ie you are mopping up adds just after the door closes) then you are fine.

    Key points for us were:
    - 2nd door, interupt venom priests and nuke down one then the other. Focussing matters, despite tempation this isn't an aoe fest.
    - 3rd door, kite towards 4th door, this naturally prevents too much dmg from the frozen orbs
    - 4th door, flamecasters are huge prio. Then you need to kill a bear and its shammy then the next bear and its shammy. NEVER have more than one shammy up at a time, they are bad news.

    I looked at your last attempt and it seems you got there because you got the other sources of damage under control (blazing sunlight, sandtraps, venom bolt volley wasnt perfect but not a train wreck and so on) What got you there was the deadly plague. Thats applied on melee hits and I don't think those adds can be tanked. so stun them slow them, root them (hi priests!), fear them etc to stop that debuff being applied.

    Also, get your dru to symbi the pala so he can cleanse diseases I think it is. Don't dispel too early, dispel at one stack and it will get reapplied, think to dispel at higher stacks. Any class that can self dispel should.

    Anyway, hope my ramblings set you in the right direction.
    Thank you very much, will keep this in mind when we try again tomorrow=)

  6. #6
    Deja Thoris gave you some good advice, anyway, if you got to the Amani doors one or two times, it means you're pretty near of scoring the kill ).
    Using Bloodlust on 3rd door was key for us, it allowed us to destroy the 3rd door adds when the balcony adds went down, 4th door is easier, when there's only the boss, the only thing to watch out for is tank damage, they'll take a lot, so they must use CDs as much as possible and healer should really be focused.
    Once you pass 3rd door a few times it means the kill is going to happen soon

    So go get some loot )
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  7. #7
    The Patient Daleness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    anywhere you're not
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Deja Thoris gave you some good advice, anyway, if you got to the Amani doors one or two times, it means you're pretty near of scoring the kill ).
    Using Bloodlust on 3rd door was key for us, it allowed us to destroy the 3rd door adds when the balcony adds went down, 4th door is easier, when there's only the boss, the only thing to watch out for is tank damage, they'll take a lot, so they must use CDs as much as possible and healer should really be focused.
    Once you pass 3rd door a few times it means the kill is going to happen soon

    So go get some loot )
    Pretty much this, we were struggling most on the 3rd door and decided to pop hero a few seconds into the first warlord drops down, me as tank being aware of moving from frozen orbs and generalt mass CC on the running about adds.

    Anyone that can dispell should atleast dispell themselves, dps is important but control is the key, having barely any poison from 2nd door is a huge savior of mana for the healers.

    Tank that got adds on 4th door takes Horridon until the War God is dead worked best for us, just be clear with CD's
    Have your dps save their personal cooldowns for when the War God drops down and nuke him asap.
    When the War God dies Horridon enrages and have a CD on the tank at that point or the other tank be quick to taunt off,
    our Pally died 2-3 times when the triple puncture happened right after.
    Woho! post count +1!

  8. #8
    Damage is far too low

    People are right in saying that high damage isn't a requirement for this fight, But it does make it exponentially easier the more you have, even with the 2 different health nerfs. The quicker the prio elite adds die, the less aoes go up, the less dots go up, less effusions are spawned etc.

    In an ideal world(we were able to accomplish this a few tries after the first nerf due to our poor gear, there has since been an additional nerf meaning even less is required) The first elite add should be dying before the other two spawn, and one of those two should be dying before the dinomancer spawns or very close at least.

    The logs i'm looking at show your damage dealers at 60-70k dps, give or take. This isn't acceptable. If you manage to break horridon. you're still going to have a lot of trouble on council.

    I quickly had a look at one of your dps, Namely. Alex. ( /wow/gear/eu/outland/alex ) I entered his information into mr robot to see how he could improve his reforges, enchants etc. Mr robot has him at 93% of his potential "points" which are given based on stats and itemization based on predetermined calculations and rules.(Some people argue to ask mr robot doesnt always give perfect results but considering alex has no reforges whatsoever on his armory, I'm going to assume for the sake of argument that mr robot knows better).

    Anybody who puts effort into their character will normally see either 99% when they've manually done their character and checked it on mr robot. Simply due to user error or mr robot just doing reforges better than most players. 93% shows absolute ignorance and incapability to do the bare minimum when it comes to maxing your character potential. And this is only one guy, i haven't checked anybody else but they could be just the same or worse

    I suggest you inform them of the tools they have available for maxing their dps and start imposing penalties for those who don't out of ignorance or laziness.


    Good luck, let us know how it goes.

  9. #9
    Use heroism on the third door, and also tell your DK to pop army of the dead, probably some time shortly after the two warlords jump down. Army will take care of the deadly plague for most of it till the Dinomancer comes. At that point just burn him asap to 50% and use the orb to stop the wave of door adds.

  10. #10
    My guild struggled here too until this week. The keys to our eventual victory:

    Door 1. Focus down the big guys one at a time. They drop down in pre determined spots so make sure everyone knows which to attack.
    Door 2: same deal, focus on the venom priests. However, we also assigned a rotation for interrupts. We had 2 melee DPS, each with a 13 second cool down on interrupts and 3 ranged DPS with 24 second interrupts. The first venompriest gets burned down so fast that usually we never needed to interrupt them, but we assigned one melee DPS to do it if needed. Then when the other 2 show up, we designated a melee DPS to one each. The rest of us focused on the left guy first. Again, the melee DPS would take the first interrupt on each. The Mage was assigned the second interrupt, but he usually didn't need to use it until we were on the last VP. The warlock was assigned to pick up and kill any venomous effusions and save his interrupt for it, and the hunter saved his interrupt for the dinomancer. On our more successful attempts, not a single poison cast went off.

    Door 3: this was the hardest door for us at first, but once we followed this strat it became the easiest. Have your DK pop army of the dead here. The extra minions gave the smaller adds something else to disease other than us. Also, everyone stack up on the tank. This way all of the adds can be aoe'd down. You still focus on the warlords, but cleave damage helps bring the smaller ones down fast. Have the tank move the group slowly towards door 4. We did not have to pop heroism here. When we did, killing the add at the end when Horridon was the only one left took too long, so we saved it for him.

    Door 4: focus on one warbear and one shaman at a time. Don't end up with 3 dead bears and 3 live shaman.

    One more thing that probably simplified the fight for us. Tank Horridon far away from each door. Just have one healer go with him. This way Horridon only charges the healer and never any of us fighting at the doors. Simpler to focus on DPS and stacking up. Tank and healer switches occurred after we got him to crash into the door. The transition from one door to the next allowed us to DPS Horridon a bit, but before long, he was dragged away again. I think Horridon had about 80% health left when we closed the last door. Pop hero when the big guy comes. We had 45 seconds to spare on the enrage timer when we killed Horridon.

    Hope this helps.

  11. #11
    #4th post's advice might be useful if u have certain amount of dps, but in this case ur dps is severely lacking and is certainly not enough to defeat this boss at this point.

    go back to heroic msv , hof and toes to get more gears, pickup free 522 from shado pan assault, nalak and oondasta
    Last edited by JIMM-; 2013-04-14 at 02:47 PM.

  12. #12
    I don't think the DPS is necessarily too low. I don't have a log, but I think our average DPS before focusing on Horridon was about 70k each for the 5 DPS. After burning him down, we each were up to 130-140k, but beforehand it wasn't much different than your guild's.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    356
    Quote Originally Posted by thek3mp View Post
    Damage is far too low

    People are right in saying that high damage isn't a requirement for this fight, But it does make it exponentially easier the more you have, even with the 2 different health nerfs. The quicker the prio elite adds die, the less aoes go up, the less dots go up, less effusions are spawned etc.

    In an ideal world(we were able to accomplish this a few tries after the first nerf due to our poor gear, there has since been an additional nerf meaning even less is required) The first elite add should be dying before the other two spawn, and one of those two should be dying before the dinomancer spawns or very close at least.

    The logs i'm looking at show your damage dealers at 60-70k dps, give or take. This isn't acceptable. If you manage to break horridon. you're still going to have a lot of trouble on council.

    I quickly had a look at one of your dps, Namely. Alex. ( /wow/gear/eu/outland/alex ) I entered his information into mr robot to see how he could improve his reforges, enchants etc. Mr robot has him at 93% of his potential "points" which are given based on stats and itemization based on predetermined calculations and rules.(Some people argue to ask mr robot doesnt always give perfect results but considering alex has no reforges whatsoever on his armory, I'm going to assume for the sake of argument that mr robot knows better).

    Anybody who puts effort into their character will normally see either 99% when they've manually done their character and checked it on mr robot. Simply due to user error or mr robot just doing reforges better than most players. 93% shows absolute ignorance and incapability to do the bare minimum when it comes to maxing your character potential. And this is only one guy, i haven't checked anybody else but they could be just the same or worse

    I suggest you inform them of the tools they have available for maxing their dps and start imposing penalties for those who don't out of ignorance or laziness.


    Good luck, let us know how it goes.
    Ah yes, that's one of my concerns, I am the raidleader and also the best geared one in the guild, I work hard to get as good gear as possible and also looking up guides, reforging etc. However I don't know how many of the raiders that tries to maximize their stats and performance, but I should inform them to look up guides etc.

  14. #14
    Overall your dps is very low. With all the cleaves and burning down adds you need to do on this fight I'm guessing you must be overwhelmed.

    Our successful strat recap :

    - Have one tank on Horridon uptil after 4th door, have a paladin bop remove his debuff when needed. 2nd tank deals with all adds.

    All doors:
    -Ideally you want to kill the 1st special add (walkers, priest, frosts, shamans) as soon as he spawns, before it ever gets to cast ANYTHING, this wont be the case on last 2 doors but you still want these to die fast.
    -Bring down dinomancer to 50% to be able to destroy a door, the faster you destroy a door, the less adds you will get.
    -Dispels are more effective than heal, if you can dispel, DO IT. Prioritize those who need it most (higher stacks, tanks, 2 debuffs etc)

    Door 1 :
    - Kill walker 1, kick gators, focus walker 2, zerg dino on spawn, kill walker 2 and 3, focus horridon, let melee and tanks kill remaining trash.

    Door 2 :
    - Attack 1st add but switch immediately to 1st priest. Kill it FAST, before it is able to cast anything. Focus second priest until dino spawn. Zerg dino and kill priest 2 and 3. Kill trash, use stuns to lower bleed debuffs.

    Door 3 :
    -This door is in my opinion the most difficult as adds randomly attack and immune to taunts. Nuke and kill 2 first adds (thee can be stunned), Kill 1st Frostweaver, Nuke dino, Switch to 2nd Frostweaver HOWEVER, don't hesitate to kill/cc any trash especially low hp ones. Kill 2nd frostweaver then kill remaining trash, Kill 3rd frostweaver.
    NOTE: Trash adds will apply diseases. If you are able to dps on the move while kiting/snaring/ccing these adds, do it to relieve healers.

    Door 4 :
    -Nuke 2 trash. Kill bear, Focus 1st shaman, Kill second flamecaster, Focus 1st shaman, Focus dino on spawn and kill shaman, KILL ALL REMAINING FLAMECASTERS (!!!!), Kill a bear and a shaman as a priority but don't hesitate to cleave kill 2nd bear. Kill 3rd shaman and move boss next to god spawn point.

    Final phase :
    -Have your entire raid excluding tanks on the bosses flank in one tight spot to minimise raid movement and increase healing potential.
    -All people charged need to move right in front or right behind the boss, so he essentially never moves.
    -You will want to lust when god spawns. Nuke the god, all dps CDs on him. You want him only to do 2 raidwide AOEs.
    -1st god aoe will be very very close to the bosses dire call, you want all your raid to use a cooldown for this, and healthstone on whichever one hits you first. A priest bubble is great for this.
    -Healers, after this your absolute priority are the tanks. The raid won't take ANY damage until the next dire call after 2nd AOE, (roughly 1 minute). You have PLENTY of time for the raid to heal up through area heals etc. The tanks lives will however will be yoyoing on our screen, spam your fingers off on them and COMMUNICATE. Cooldowns are REQUIRED during this phase, line them up correctly.
    -Roughly every minute the boss will cast DIRE CALL, have your entire raid use a preventative cooldown for it, DO NOT HEAL YOUR RAID AFTERWARDS, heal your tanks (raid will not take damage for another minute, so 1 hp is fine!).
    -Most likely one of your tanks will die in this phase, Brez him up, if not available have your entire raid spread out, and pray. Most fights (looking a vids and our very own attempt) ends with the boss going after dps, if you've dpsed him enough you should be able to take him down.

    Here's a video of our first kill which sums up the above.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrWAqExAMAs

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,505
    what I also suggest is using the heroic strategy for dealing with the adds if your dps is a tad on the low side. Dinomancers do not need to be killed right away. If you are having trouble with the door adds then you can try this=> When the dinomancer is out get him to 50% (and interrupt his healing) so he turns into a t-rex and drops the orb. After that you can prioritize the door adds over the Dinomancer as he doesn't do that much except melee.

    Your DPS is a bit low and the biggest thing is that your Lock and Spriest should keep up the dots on horridon to make the last phase (the soft enrage) shorter if your tanks/heals are lacking in gear and CD's. Also AOE stuns for Venom and Frost Orb doors help quit a bit on the tanks.

    here is our log from this week
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-r4ouzqtuemo7gp4p/
    www.cherishyourit.ca MCTS - Win 7, MCTS - AD, A+, Security+

  16. #16
    Ill throw some penny's of mine. For 2nd gate definitely assign interrupts (but remember 1 interrupt must be free for Dinomancer). Focus on effusions even when Dino shows up. Have your ele shammy pop Ancestral Guidance on effusions (when there are many pools of poison).
    For 3rd gate focus your dps on smallest adds (they have 800k hp dies quickly but if you leave them they'll wipe your raid). Ignore warlords, you have time to kill them after gate is closed. Pop BL and all cd's on warlords and remember to kite it SLOWLY to gate 4 so they won't shit ur whole area for gate 4. As for gate 4 it's for me easiest phase, you just focus Bear, kill Dino, clear rest of trash, it should be smooth.

  17. #17
    Seems that many are having trouble with gate 3. We just have everyone except the tank stack up and then just kill shit. No need for the BL, alot easier for the healers to heal if everyone are stacked and the small adds die faster aswell.

  18. #18
    Honestly, main issue is probably dps. Your sand trap damage is also pretty high as is your frozen orb damage. The high damage from dispelable debuffs is most likely due to your dps. If you are ~500 ilvl, 90k is fair for most classes for the add phase (higher for anyone putting decent damage on horridon during the adds obviously). Half of your dps is in the 60k range which even for a 480 ilvl is rather horrible.

    Specifically your rogue (because I am one) should be doing probably around 100k during the add phase and he probably wants to take Marked for Death and be rupturing more as even if something dies with a rupture left, you get energy back.

  19. #19
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    South Georgia - US
    Posts
    147
    The bears are much more dangerous than the shamans on the fourth door, assuming that your raid has the awareness to not get hit by totems.
    d=(^_^)z
    Hondoom#1436

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Alahondor View Post
    The bears are much more dangerous than the shamans on the fourth door, assuming that your raid has the awareness to not get hit by totems.
    Not really. Unless you are claiming that the awareness required to stay behind something is much higher than running out of an AE.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •