Pve enchant windsong/dancing steel

[Deleted]

I see some warriors use Windsong Main hand Dancing steel Offhand for fury TG is dancing steel x2 best for SMF only or windsong on main hand is nice for SMF aswell if you love crit?

[Revolutions]

I think they were skimping on their enchants.

[MrHappy]

windsong is poor-man's dancing steel. It is suboptimal to use that. 2x steel is the way to go...unless you can't afford it.

[Dungeonravor]

windsong is poor-man's dancing steel. It is suboptimal to use that. 2x steel is the way to go...unless you can't afford it.

How so? Ever seen the proc rate of Windsong? Its Pretty insane and also you can have more then one proc up at a time. Like 1500 Haste/Crit/Mastery compare that to Dancing Steel?

I rather run Dancing Steel/Windsong for the extra secondary stat procs especially in burst phases with a heck of allot of procs.

---------- Post added 2013-04-09 at 01:19 PM ----------

And Landsoul has been running Dancing Steel/Windsong for the whole Tier 14 and 15 and I do not think he is that poor to buy 2x Dancing Steel

[Deleted]

How so? Ever seen the proc rate of Windsong? Its Pretty insane and also you can have more then one proc up at a time. Like 1500 Haste/Crit/Mastery compare that to Dancing Steel?

I rather run Dancing Steel/Windsong for the extra secondary stat procs especially in burst phases with a heck of allot of procs.

---------- Post added 2013-04-09 at 01:19 PM ----------

And Landsoul has been running Dancing Steel/Windsong for the whole Tier 14 and 15 and I do not think he is that poor to buy 2x Dancing Steel

The procs are random and have a ~13.66% uptime on each of the buffs, that means you'll get 26% uptime where half is close to worthless.
And you only have 1 buff active at a time (i.e you cant have 2x crit buffs).
You can compare it to 205 crit/haste/mastery against dual procs of 1600 strength with higher uptime.

Im curious how you control when it procs and more importantly make it proc crit.
1500 haste in burst phases wont mean anything.

Landsoul is just being lazy from the time where it was best to have dancing on mh and windsong on oh, that was BEFORE the rppm changes. Thats not the case anymore.

(I took the proc values from tank pov.)

[Requiel]

How so? Ever seen the proc rate of Windsong? Its Pretty insane and also you can have more then one proc up at a time. Like 1500 Haste/Crit/Mastery compare that to Dancing Steel?

I rather run Dancing Steel/Windsong for the extra secondary stat procs especially in burst phases with a heck of allot of procs.

---------- Post added 2013-04-09 at 01:19 PM ----------

And Landsoul has been running Dancing Steel/Windsong for the whole Tier 14 and 15 and I do not think he is that poor to buy 2x Dancing Steel

Because if windsong is better than dancing steel then 2x windsong would be best, this whole half half thing doesn't make sense, each weapon enchant has its own individual proc which means they don't inhibit eachother, in other terms its either your have 2 windsongs or 2 dancing steels. There was a point in time where half half was true, when they first rolled out RPPM for weapon enchants, if you had two of the same enchants, both enchants shared the same enchant proc I.E. 1 dancing steel proc max or 1 of each windsong and each proc (regardless of which hand) would only refresh the duration and not create a second proc (which is what happens now). but they changed that within a week of dancing steel being converted to RPPM.

As for landsoul, I have no idea whats going on, but it wouldn't be the first time someones wrong.

[RoKPaNda]

If it was just some random warrior that was doing it, I'd agree that they were lazy, but since it's Landsoul I'm inclined to believe that he has a good reason for it, or at least thinks he does.

[Dungeonravor]

If it was just some random warrior that was doing it, I'd agree that they were lazy, but since it's Landsoul I'm inclined to believe that he has a good reason for it, or at least thinks he does.

There has to be a reason that he is running it in T14 and also in T15 now, cause if you remembered his spreadsheet it was damn accurate so I guees there is a reason to use it.

Can't wait for it to come out of beta

[Crushima]

The procs are random and have a ~13.66% uptime on each of the buffs, that means you'll get 26% uptime where half is close to worthless.
[/SIZE]

There is no time where either 1500 haste, mastery or crit are 'worthless'. Haste was buffed so much that its very similar to mastery now. Mastery is stil a fair bit behind crit, but still the procs are valuable.

[Recke]

If I recall, I may be wrong and if so I hope Landsoul will correct me for speaking in his stead, however:
In 5.1, when Dancing Steel went RPPM, there was a bug where both Dancing Steels couldn't proc at the same time for the double Strength buff. Instead, if the either weapon procced the Dancing Steel spell ID, it refreshed the buff, resulting in an increased uptime. However, since TG had crit slightly above strength in terms of stat weights, and mastery was relatively high, Windsong was optimal compared to the increase in uptime of Dancing Steel. So, DS/WS and WS/DS were better than DS/DS for TG (smf was slightly different since it valued Strength higher than Crit, so the increased uptime of Dancing Steel was better than the Windsong results). At some point, this was hotfixed to be able to proc both at once. It is still hard to track and probably to sim since they share a spell ID and have issues being differentiated via logs.
(http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-76...3/?s=496&e=746 logs of Lvazquez of ScrubBusters on Jin'rohk. If you check the Dancing Steel buff, he only had 23 procs over a 250 second fight. 12 second proc * 23 procs= 276 seconds of the buff. However, only 149 seconds were buffed, so much of it was double buffed, however the logs only show 1 buff.)
Why Landsoul hasn't changed his enchants/etc, I believe, is because he's been busy with work/moving/progression raiding so he hasn't gotten around to testing it himself to verify and thus do it.
Mind you, I can be absolutely wrong, but this is just my educated guess.

[Deleted]

There is no time where either 1500 haste, mastery or crit are 'worthless'. Haste was buffed so much that its very similar to mastery now. Mastery is stil a fair bit behind crit, but still the procs are valuable.

Maybe i should have bolded the 'CLOSE TO' part.
2/3 of the times the proc will be 'meeh' vs all procs from dancing will be more beneficial.

[Bloodletters]

The procs are random and have a ~13.66% uptime on each of the buffs, that means you'll get 26% uptime where half is close to worthless.
And you only have 1 buff active at a time (i.e you cant have 2x crit buffs).
You can compare it to 205 crit/haste/mastery against dual procs of 1600 strength with higher uptime.

Im curious how you control when it procs and more importantly make it proc crit.
1500 haste in burst phases wont mean anything.

Landsoul is just being lazy from the time where it was best to have dancing on mh and windsong on oh, that was BEFORE the rppm changes. Thats not the case anymore.

(I took the proc values from tank pov.)

It has nothing to do with laziness. The procs are not static, sometimes you'll have as much as 30% uptime on the crit buff and 15% on others. You can have all three running at the same time. The value of haste was buffed this patch, and haste plays an important role in the uptime on RPPM items (Dancing Steel, Trinkets). My guess is that has something to do with why he's using Windsong. I could be wrong though and am interested to know exactly why Quiks and Landsoul are running with that enchant setup.

[Wrekon]

there is alot of math involved here, what if you get consecutive 1500 haste/mastery buffs, that doesnt make it better then dancing steel. Yes it procs a lot but the procs are random. Of course if you get 1500 crit consecutively, itll be better than dancing steel. It is just too random in my opinion

[Deleted]

Bumping an old thread, I know, but just checked Landsoul's armory and he seems to be using double Windsong.
Thoughts on this?

[Darkfriend]

Bumping an old thread, I know, but just checked Landsoul's armory and he seems to be using double Windsong.
Thoughts on this?

He's testing something

[Deleted]

Frankly I've seen Soy, Landsoul and Quiks all using Ds/Ws, so im inclined to agree with them undoubtedly. However I noticed sinnermighty using dual Ds, and since he browses these forums maybe he can weigh in, but for now I think we have to go with the majority.

[Requiel]

Frankly I've seen Soy, Landsoul and Quiks all using Ds/Ws, so im inclined to agree with them undoubtedly. However I noticed sinnermighty using dual Ds, and since he browses these forums maybe he can weigh in, but for now I think we have to go with the majority.

Doing half-half enchants does nothing, they both proc at the same rate, each hand has its own buffs, main hand and off hand have the same up time, so theirs nothing that makes one of each special. you either have one enchant or the other.

[Bloodletters]

Doing half-half enchants does nothing, they both proc at the same rate, each hand has its own buffs, main hand and off hand have the same up time, so theirs nothing that makes one of each special. you either have one enchant or the other.

I don't know what the proc rate of Wind Song vs. Dancing Steel is. Perhaps there is some theoretical diminishing return to having multiple weapons with Windsong on them? Perhaps not? I don't really understand the reasoning that "one of each isn't special" though. I mean all of the stats we gain from them have value, and Windsong operates completely different from Dancing Steel based on how many buffs it can provide and the potential to have all three rolling at the same time. I think Windsong perhaps has added value because of the RPPM system now as well. So maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, idk but I don't understand that reasoning.

[Requiel]

I don't know what the proc rate of Wind Song vs. Dancing Steel is. Perhaps there is some theoretical diminishing return to having multiple weapons with Windsong on them? Perhaps not? I don't really understand the reasoning that "one of each isn't special" though. I mean all of the stats we gain from them have value, and Windsong operates completely different from Dancing Steel based on how many buffs it can provide and the potential to have all three rolling at the same time. I think Windsong perhaps has added value because of the RPPM system now as well. So maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, idk but I don't understand that reasoning.

windsong and dancing steel have the same proc rate. the reason why I said one of each isn't special is because they don't inhibit each other, there is not DR on having two of the same enchants, the main hand does care for whats in the off hand and vice versa, they don't interact, so there is no hidden bonus for having one of each (there was one before where each hand proced the same enchant).

[Sinnermighty]

Windsong/Dancing Steel is not better than Double DS in 5.2 as TG or SMF.

There are reasons outside of what enchant is the best as to why some warriors are WS/DS. Coming out of a progression tier, all of us are poor especially me and Soy, my weapons were acquired early in the progression and his later, thus he went with WS on the MH.

Good rule of thumb: Don't follow top warrior(*insert class here*) armouries blindly. Not everything is as it seems.