Ghostcrawler: "Hunter's Eyes of the Beast was 'bloat'"

[Alayea]

He didn't call 'Eyes of the Beast' bloat, you did.

/thread

any chance on removing some hunter ability bloat in 6.0?(maybe before?) seems too many buttons since MoP
We tried to remove some before but still get "Bring back Eyes of the Beast!" requests. We'll try again.

Not explicitly? Perhaps. But you would have to not have had your morning caffeine to interpret otherwise.

And yes, bring back EotB! I had fun with that ability, and was sad when it was removed. (Also, my shaman wants her Water Breathing back. Seriously, what was Blizzard thinking taking away something both iconic and still useful?)

[Tziva]

And yet this isn't actually happening. More fun abilities and glyphs have been added to the game since Mop went live than there are that have been removed. The sky isn't falling.

I'm not sure why the addition of fun abilities and glyphs is relevant to a discussion about those that are removed. Sure - maybe for every one we lose, we gain two... but no one here is arguing about raw quantity of fun abilities. They're lamenting particular abilities that are no longer available.

I absolutely agree that we've had many, many fun items, glyphs and abilities added to the game, especially in the last expansion. But I don't think that negates the objective truth that some have also been removed.

No one said the sky is falling. Not everyone who expresses criticism is some flailing chicken little.

[docterfreeze]

Blizzard loves to nerf fun, thought this was already known?

While we are at it why not just remove every single glyph/ability/talent that doesn't increase DPS/healing/threat? Cause they're so obviously bloat!

[Deleted]

And putting words in GC's mouth is one of the most annoying traits of mindless QQers.

I would love for you to point to any comment I've made in this thread and show me an instance of where I put words into Ghostcrawler's mouth which he has never said. I mean if you are going to accuse someone of being a "mindless QQer" solely on that basis I would like for you to show me my mindless QQing. I merely asked a question; what harm did EotB do and what good did it do taking it out? I really don't get where some people have to attack other's criticisms of the game; I assure you it's not hurting GC's feelings our questioning the decision to remove EotB and last I heard criticism was a positive thing whereas just assuming every decision that gets made by Blizzard is good because it's Blizzard making them is actually detrimental. It's amazing; I've simply asked what harm would have leaving EotB in done and I've had two people call me a either a hyperbolic angry man looking for a fight and a "mindless QQer".

[mvaliz]

You can keep it if you can think of a single decent use for it.

I can think of one... FUN!

Dude... it's a game. Not everything about gaming is about maximizing DPS counts and that crap.

I was seriously debating about rolling a hunter JUST for this... so I could just have fun going back to lower levels and, say, terrorizing camps of bloodsails and delfias with a killer rampaging turtle. That's DAMN fun for me! :P

[Faroth]

No one said the sky is falling.

But I heard it will be next expansion.

=3

[Urti]

But I heard it will be next expansion.

=3

Wait, I thought the next expansion was The Emerald Dream? /jk

[Wazooty]

This is turning into a linear arcade game, not an rpg.

Do your rotation in one of these specified areas.

Nothing else.

A harmless fun spell? Remove it, it's not part of their rotation in one of these specified areas.

Let's remove every single ability that aint used in combat since apparently it's all bloat.

[Lethey Alexandros]

I enjoyed eyes of the beast in Arathi Basin, If I was deffending a node or something I would use it to see what was happening at other nodes in AB. Used to use it to pull baron geddon in molten core, Also used to use it when they first introduced raid markers to mark things in a room that the player could not enter without pulling the whole room.

EotB was alaways a utility spell designed to be the hunters version of farsight with a little more flare.

Also while we are at it, can I have my Devine Intervention back please?

[Notos]

I feel the same way about Path of Blossoms. That was just a fun skill to run around and spam for the light show during raid prep time or just hanging out in 2 moons, but because it's not useful (though it can be, arguably moreso than eotb) they took it out.

[Whidbey]

Eyes of the Eagle is the one that is total bloat.. It has no real practical use in most situations

[Faroth]

Eyes of the Eagle is the one that is total bloat.. It has no real practical use in most situations

Bloat suggests it's needed on the hotkey bar. If it's totally optional (I can fire fireworks from my bow....), it's not really bloat if you can completely ignore it.

[Tziva]

You can keep it if you can think of a single decent use for it.

Considering this is a video game that people play primarily for entertainment, I think "because it's fun" is a perfectly valid "use" for it.

I'm not saying that "fun" should trump every thing else, but in this case there are no real other strong considerations like balance, storyline integrity, etc, that often put "fun" as a secondary consideration. The ability itself really has no negatives at all,; if anything, it is a victim of all the other hunter abilities that are not especially awesome or important clogging up the spellbook.

But I heard it will be next expansion.

Troublemaker!

[Crym]

Bloat suggests it's needed on the hotkey bar. If it's totally optional (I can fire fireworks from my bow....), it's not really bloat if you can completely ignore it.

Exactly, and personally I'd like to see more flavor abilities. I think it would encourage people to "mess around" more in game and remove some of the seriousness people let ruin their experience.

[Tziva]

Also while we are at it, can I have my Devine Intervention back please?

Although I miss it as well, DI at least created opportunities for cheesing certain fights or taking advantage of particular mechanics in a way that was gimmicky, so I can understand the reason they removed it.

[Raugnaut]

Blizz really doesn't make sense with ability removal.

For instance, Druid's Thorns. In Wrath, it was a castable buff that caused melee attackers to take a very, very small amount of damage. As a tank, I would use it glyphed w/ spellcasting armor for a decent amount of AoE threat, as this was the era where all druids had for AoE threat was swipe.
s
In Cata, it was changed to a buff, 20 seconds uptime, with a 45/25 second CD, that did a melee hits worth of damage to melee attackers. Pretty decent, except that tanks had to use it before pulls. It was a dps gain for boomkins/ferals to use on the tank on fast hitting bosses/mobs (On alysrazor, for instance, druids could get a good million+ damage off per cast of thorns on the hatchling tanks, even more if ppl were solo tanking)

In Mists, it was removed. I was sad about it, but became enraged/confused when they gave us back the Wrath form of thorns, except you could only get it if a shaman was in the group. ?.?

[Noorri]

Divine Intervention was prone to cheese, so I understand that.

What I would consider bloat is that I have over 25 base abilities on my bars as a Protection Paladin, each and every one useful in different raid situations. Add in my macros and your looking at 30-35 buttons. I can't redo my action bars every boss fight, that would be insanely tedious for a normal raider. So I am going to make a suggestion on how to remove alot of bloat from my bars and make the abilities alot less tiresome to deal with. Keep in mind I only want to remove/change these abilities from Protection and not necessarily from either Holy or Retri.

All 3 seals are removed, as they serve no function since I am only using Seal of Insight anyway. Might be fun if you make Seals only visual changes to your character instead of functional. So for example Seal of Truth causes it's activation graphic to pop up when you enter combat, Seal of Righteousness causes wings to appear on your back like Avenging Wrath (but permanently) and Seal of Insight occasionally causes it's activation graphic to appear when using rotational abilities.
Hammer of Wrath is removed, as it is basically the definition of bloat. Why on earth do I need an execute mechanic? Moar DPS?
Every man for himself no longer works on anything raid or dungeon mobs do, or remove it altogether.
Healthstones are now only for the Warlock him/herself.
The function of Consecration and Holy Wrath are now combined into one spell that also causes the weakened blows debuff for 30 seconds to anything the Holy Wrath part of it hits.
Hammer of the Righteous no longer causes Weakened Blows, and the damage to the main target is increased to the same as Crusader Strike currently has.
Crusader Strike is removed.
Avenging Wrath is removed. Even more DPS bloat for a tank.
Ardent Defender is removed. Having 3-4 "damage reduced" cooldowns is bloat. Better to have 2 baseline and one more you can talent for.
Hand of Sacrifice is removed.
Cleanse is removed.
Divine Shield is removed.
The Hand of Protection buff can no longer be clicked away, and Hand of Protection now removes damage taken from all sources for 8 seconds.
Remove Devotion aura. In my opinion only healers should have these raid wall abilities, it's their job to reduce and heal damage the raid takes.
Blinding Light is removed.

That's 13 things removed or baked into other things. Obviously number balance would be required as well.

This is how you remove bloat, because bloat is actually on your action bars. Eyes of the Beast is like Contenplation for Paladins; and ability you use very rarely and never with such a sense of urgency that you can't just open your spellbook and use it from there.

[xanzul]

I'm not sure why the addition of fun abilities and glyphs is relevant to a discussion about those that are removed. Sure - maybe for every one we lose, we gain two... but no one here is arguing about raw quantity of fun abilities. They're lamenting particular abilities that are no longer available.

I absolutely agree that we've had many, many fun items, glyphs and abilities added to the game, especially in the last expansion. But I don't think that negates the objective truth that some have also been removed.

No one said the sky is falling. Not everyone who expresses criticism is some flailing chicken little.

You have got to be kidding. Did you seriously just say all the new fun abilities and fluff glyphs added in Mop has nothing to do with a thread about a fun ability being removed and claims that Blizzard doesn't like fun? Come on now I expect a little more critical thought and common sense from a moderator.

---------- Post added 2013-04-12 at 07:31 AM ----------

Blizzard loves to nerf fun, thought this was already known?

While we are at it why not just remove every single glyph/ability/talent that doesn't increase DPS/healing/threat? Cause they're so obviously bloat!

Again more fun abilities and glyphs have been added to the game than have been removed. Hyperbole like this serves no purpose in a constructive discussion and only detracts from what may be valid complaints.

[pandaman]

Just me who use to use it to kill duelers from a safe distance?

Also, I never did it myself because it was so cruel, but people used to tame a rare pet, rename it to the same name, then make it walk around the same location as the elite so lowbies would get PvP tagged... worked best as Nelf because the pet tag disappeared in Shadowmeld

[xanzul]

Bloat suggests it's needed on the hotkey bar. If it's totally optional (I can fire fireworks from my bow....), it's not really bloat if you can completely ignore it.

Actually bloat suggests that there are too many abilities regardless of whether players put them on their action bars or not.

---------- Post added 2013-04-12 at 07:40 AM ----------

Considering this is a video game that people play primarily for entertainment, I think "because it's fun" is a perfectly valid "use" for it.

I'm not saying that "fun" should trump every thing else, but in this case there are no real other strong considerations like balance, storyline integrity, etc, that often put "fun" as a secondary consideration. The ability itself really has no negatives at all,; if anything, it is a victim of all the other hunter abilities that are not especially awesome or important clogging up the spellbook.


Troublemaker!

I'm not exactly understanding why you people keep pointing out video games are for fun. Who has said otherwise? Fun abilities with purpose aren't clutter but abilities that are fun for the sake of fun is clutter. There is a significant difference that most of you seem unable to comprehend.