Thread: Low Poison Dmg

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  1. #1

    Low Poison Dmg

    So trying to figure out why my dps has been shitty of late I'm looking at logs and whats jumping out most at me is poison dmg being lower than all the other rogues. Avg hit and procs are all lower. Envenom also seems to be hitting lower. I have no clue why this would be any help or explanation would be helpful.

    WoL DP dmg:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/j...780/?enc=kills
    WoL Envenom dmg:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/j...645/?enc=kills
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yworgen/simple
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    I have no clue why this would be any help or explanation would be helpful.
    Erm, mastery.

  3. #3
    Yeah you have some pretty low mastery. On your duru kill you're not that far behind tho

  4. #4
    2 of them have 2k more mastery than you. Shadowmeld, I'm not sure; may have reforged/geared since that log, or had better luck with agility procs; in either case, all have gear priorities which more strongly favor harder hitting DP/envenom. ToB supports more of them, not harder hitting ones, as an outlier.

  5. #5
    I have no clue about rogues, but may it be that you still need more hit for poison stuff than for melee attacks?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ripponesan View Post
    I have no clue about rogues, but may it be that you still need more hit for poison stuff than for melee attacks?
    Just the opposite. 7.5% melee hit for specials and poisons, LOTS for melee white hits.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    2 of them have 2k more mastery than you. Shadowmeld, I'm not sure; may have reforged/geared since that log, or had better luck with agility procs; in either case, all have gear priorities which more strongly favor harder hitting DP/envenom. ToB supports more of them, not harder hitting ones, as an outlier.
    Shadows gear is the same from the log. The only rogue who had different gear from the log would be twiga. He got his 2 set last night, after these logs though you can see in our attempts on Iron Qon that impact, so his current page might be different than the logs.

    Shadow did get luckier with his procs 32.5% Bad Juju vs 21.8% for me. The only other major difference between our gear is his vp trink where I have bloodlust. But his avg poison dmg is the highest and he only has 143 more mastery. He also has 2k more haste than me which I don't understand either. Point being if this was purely a mastery thing his poison dmg should be near mine and its not. Now maybe this is all luck which makes me mad.

    Is their anything else in these logs where you can point to where I am doing something wrong. Its frustrating.

    Edit: Looks like I have 2k more agility than he does, 600 more crit, and 2k more ap which is probably the agility.
    Last edited by theturn; 2013-04-12 at 04:53 PM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    Shadows gear is the same from the log. The only rogue who had different gear from the log would be twiga. He got his 2 set last night, after these logs though you can see in our attempts on Iron Qon that impact, so his current page might be different than the logs.

    Shadow did get luckier with his procs 32.5% Bad Juju vs 21.8% for me. The only other major difference between our gear is his vp trink where I have bloodlust. But his avg poison dmg is the highest and he only has 143 more mastery. He also has 2k more haste than me which I don't understand either. Point being if this was purely a mastery thing his poison dmg should be near mine and its not. Now maybe this is all luck which makes me mad.

    Is their anything else in these logs where you can point to where I am doing something wrong. Its frustrating.

    Edit: Looks like I have 2k more agility than he does.
    His poison damage is near you ( he does about 3% more dmg), I don't understand how that's lucky or unimaginable? Then he does 33% more attacks with poisons which explains the difference in total damage. Extra haste would cause him to attack more frequently but he absolutely spanks you on envenom uptime (looking at durumu) which only adds to the poison damage.

    I would just focus on more envenom uptime and then post a log in the future, no reason to be frustrated or call the "luck card".

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    His poison damage is near you ( he does about 3% more dmg), I don't understand how that's lucky or unimaginable? Then he does 33% more attacks with poisons which explains the difference in total damage. Extra haste would cause him to attack more frequently but he absolutely spanks you on envenom uptime (looking at durumu) which only adds to the poison damage.

    I would just focus on more envenom uptime and then post a log in the future, no reason to be frustrated or call the "luck card".
    I never play the luck card, I would be upset if luck had anything to do with it. I want this to be purely on skill. Which is why I am here. I'm assuming that I am doing something wrong. As for envenom maybe you have us confused. My uptime 72.2% his 66.9% on Durumu. I beat him on Dark Animus in that regard too. Only reason he beat me on Primordius was because I was having a really hard time finding pools in between mutated phases.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    I never play the luck card, I would be upset if luck had anything to do with it. I want this to be purely on skill. Which is why I am here. I'm assuming that I am doing something wrong. As for envenom maybe you have us confused. My uptime 72.2% his 66.9% on Durumu. I beat him on Dark Animus in that regard too. Only reason he beat me on Primordius was because I was having a really hard time finding pools in between mutated phases.
    Sorry I was looking at twiga, thought that was you for no apparent reason. Well looking at durumu again (with the right people :P) he's hitting 12% more than you (haste or using mutilate in envenom well) which accounts for a good chunk of dmg. Other than that his mastery just pushed that much more damage.

    It seems, considering you have talisman of BL you're getting really unlucky as you should really be winning on hits (all that extra haste). Other than that you shouldn't be too concerned, he's clearly outputting more damage on other moves because of the 2 agility procs.

    Again to summarise, with the talisman of BL I'm expecting lots more hits but it just doesn't seem to come to anything which is strange check next time that you have envenom up when you get a TOB proc. Other than that, simc yourself and check what you're meant to be doing; your performance looks admirable from where i'm standing.

  11. #11
    Looking at total damage rather than the average hits (sorry, thought that was your original question), I'm not really seeing any good reason for the discrepancy. Your luck was laughably bad for ToB on Durumu, but that doesn't quite seem to explain the difference. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but I can at least say I don't see any serious errors in your play.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Looking at total damage rather than the average hits (sorry, thought that was your original question), I'm not really seeing any good reason for the discrepancy. Your luck was laughably bad for ToB on Durumu, but that doesn't quite seem to explain the difference. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but I can at least say I don't see any serious errors in your play.
    Well one big reason his total damage is lower is that Shadowmeld got ~16% more auto attacks on Durumu which has a lot to do with why Shadowmeld got ~12.6% more poison procs than the OP. This plus the other explanation about why his average hit is less will explain quite a bit of the difference.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Well one big reason his total damage is lower is that Shadowmeld got ~16% more auto attacks on Durumu which has a lot to do with why Shadowmeld got ~12.6% more poison procs than the OP. This plus the other explanation about why his average hit is less will explain quite a bit of the difference.
    And that means?

    Right now I think its a latency problem. I've been getting latency spikes ever since ToT was released but only in ToT. Havn't found a solution for it yet. Started a thread on the offcial forums with ping test and the like to see if its a problem with my connection. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8568889342 Still waiting for any helpful advice on that.

    I Did notice that it appears Durumo has a really weird hit box. One attempt I was just standing there not auto attacking at all but able to mutilate, envenom, etc. Been wondering if its a bug with the worgen model or just really dumb programming on blizz part.
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  14. #14
    I honestly don't know what that means. You don't look like you ever stopped hitting because your dps doesn't ever plummet and 16% more auto attacks isn't going to be because of a haste difference and you didn't drop SnD at all. I didn't mention it earlier but you both had the same percentage of your melee attacks not land so this isn't due to some really lucky rng on white hits. I do know that one of our other rogues has a similar problem. He asked me why I was doing so much more damage and I saw basically the same thing I saw comparing you to shadowmeld: a significant difference in the number of melee hits.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    16% more auto attacks isn't going to be because of a haste difference
    That's exactly what it could be and under normal circumstances I can believe that, but not when said individual is using talisman of bl. Shadowmeld is beating you due to a combination of more attacks (haste) and more poison damage (mastery). How much gear does he have?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    That's exactly what it could be and under normal circumstances I can believe that, but not when said individual is using talisman of bl. Shadowmeld is beating you due to a combination of more attacks (haste) and more poison damage (mastery). How much gear does he have?
    And why is a situation aside from this one being discussed exactly? Might as well discuss how that difference could be SnD dropping off under normal circumstances... Yes, shadowmeld has more haste but the OP's ToB should pretty much bridge the gap. So no, that 16% isn't going to be because of a haste difference. Now a portion of the attack difference is probably haste related but not the entire 16%.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    And why is a situation aside from this one being discussed exactly? Might as well discuss how that difference could be SnD dropping off under normal circumstances... Yes, shadowmeld has more haste but the OP's ToB should pretty much bridge the gap. So no, that 16% isn't going to be because of a haste difference. Now a portion of the attack difference is probably haste related but not the entire 16%.
    But it is a haste difference, they both miss the same amount and have almost identical uptimes. Furthermore, melee is unaffected by any of your actions, it simply exists and ticks at a consistent rate.

    I see 3 ways this goes down:
    1) All your downtime was when you had procs/BL (seems unlikely considering your damage)
    2) You have much less haste then the other rogue, debatable considering your trinket
    3) You have a /stopautoattack macro somewhere?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    But it is a haste difference, they both miss the same amount and have almost identical uptimes. Furthermore, melee is unaffected by any of your actions, it simply exists and ticks at a consistent rate.

    I see 3 ways this goes down:
    1) All your downtime was when you had procs/BL (seems unlikely considering your damage)
    2) You have much less haste then the other rogue, debatable considering your trinket
    3) You have a /stopautoattack macro somewhere?
    1) Did you actually see any significant down time? I didn't.
    2) He does have less baseline, but as you are admitting, if you count the trinket proc, it will add a considerable amount of haste and the lower baseline haste certainly isn't the 16% difference. So again, the 16% difference is not explained by haste.
    3) Same thing as for 1, did you actually see anything to suggest this or are you just throwing out crap?
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2013-04-14 at 01:39 AM.

  19. #19
    I'd assume we're at the point of "throwing out crap" because nothing easily lifted from the logs seems to be indicating there should be this discrepancy. That leaves:

    1) not facing the boss for minute periods of time at a time throughout the fight
    2) a /stopattack macro being used by accident that gets turned on and off throughout the fight
    3) a bug that's only affecting some people or
    4) something radically different that hasn't been mentioned.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    1) Did you actually see any significant down time? I didn't.
    2) He does have less baseline, but as you are admitting, if you count the trinket proc, it will add a considerable amount of haste and the lower baseline haste certainly isn't the 16% difference. So again, the 16% difference is not explained by haste.
    3) Same thing as for 1, did you actually see anything to suggest this or are you just throwing out crap?
    Did you read what I put? I said it's unlikely considering his damage. As for the stopattack macro, did I see it anywhere? Errm, yer I was going through all the macros he used using the video he obviously posted.

    I'm trying to cover all bases that might be causing a problem here, do you have anything that could disprove that or can I try and help the guy? To the OP: do check your macros, I once was randomly whispering people 's' or saying 's' in bgs and couldn't work out what it was, turned out it was the following:

    /cast ambush
    s

    Somethings can be picked up and are very detrimental! To test it maybe log 2 identical dummy runs (preferably same time as durumu), 1 sitting there refreshing slice and dice and the other playing as if it was a raid. That way it should be easy to spot discrepancies.

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