PvP - Shockwave or Dragons Roar

[Sheerzo]

Hey guys. After a long break with the Warrior, I finally came back, and am starting my RBG and Arena carrer again.

My question is now, is Shockwave a must as many Warriors assume, or is DR viable? 2v2, 3v3, Duels, RBG, what is best in which situation, if DR even is viable? I just think Shockwave seems to slow down my rotation or just the way things flow around. Discuss!

[Sanguinerd]

Personally I find it a lame ass ability for PvP and sigh whenever a warrior stuns me with it. Having said that, I recognize it's value and if I was the least bit serious about getting 2200 rating I'd probably take it aswel. For now though DR and even BS works just fine and are more fun imo.

[wrathblade]

shockwave has a way lower CD then dragon roar.

so unless you want the burst of dragon roar id go with shockwave.
atleast if never seen a warrior use dragon's roar on my mage appart from 1 terrible geared fury warrior.

[Auberdeen]

shockwave has a way lower CD then dragon roar.

so unless you want the burst of dragon roar id go with shockwave.
atleast if never seen a warrior use dragon's roar on my mage appart from 1 terrible geared fury warrior.

Nope, D.Roar CD=1m, SW CD=40secs, unless you hit multiple targets, and it then lowers it by 20seconds, but this is near impossible in PvP, and is primarily used as a tanking mechanic.

I have been playing my warrior for almost 8 years now, strictly PvP for about 3 years, and am IN LOVE with Dragon Roar, BUT it must be used correctly, like many burst talents in the game. As you know, it has a 1min CD. Having said that, you know as a warrior you have many talents/skills which increase either your dmg output, or critical strike(yes D.Roar is an auto-crit, but im segway'ing here shortly so hold your horses) that you can macro BEFORE the use of Dragon Roar to ABSOLUTELY explode someones face with. This, in conjunction with the new implementation of Taste for Blood and how we can stack 5 overpowers, AS WELL AS Warriors now benefiting from Haste 100% more as of 5.2, is IMO, bananas. But be cautious of your rage pool, because you want that baby to be close to full when you do your crazy burst

SO, as I stated before, macroing before DR use provides INSANE burst, especially when followed up with a stacked x5 Overpower, as well as your Colossal Smash procs.

my current macro:
/use Tyrannical Gladiator's Badge of Victory
/cast Blood Fury(Racial)
/cast Skull Banner
/cast Avatar
/cast Berserker Rage

followed by either OP stacks or a Recklessness + standard rotation. Casters explode, agi wearers shit themselves, and healers freak out blowing their CDs 90% of the time. So maybe hold onto your Reck and wait for your Beserker Rage to come off CD, then proceed in annihilating face.

Having said all that about using D.Roar and Avatar, I reeeeeaallllyy LOVE using Warbringer/Shockwave/Stormbolt in BG's because frankly, you can just own ppl left and right because their CD's are most likely down, leading to you sitting on their face. Stormbolt doesn't work so well in 2's I have found out just because the use of avatar in your burst window is pretty crucial, especially when running you & healer.

Have fun!!!

[Vojka]

my current macro:
/use Tyrannical Gladiator's Badge of Victory
/cast Blood Fury(Racial)
/cast Skull Banner
/cast Avatar
/cast Berserker Rage

Putting berserker rage in your burst macro is not really recommended at all, berserker rage is more used for the utility it gives rather then the damage, besides, being enraged can come from csmash and MS crits so i suggest getting enraged from them.

[Auberdeen]

Putting berserker rage in your burst macro is not really recommended at all, berserker rage is more used for the utility it gives rather then the damage, besides, being enraged can come from csmash and MS crits so i suggest getting enraged from them.

not true, at all. yes, it does provide a purpose to cleanse you of Fear/Sap/Incapacitation, but the increase dmg by 10% provides you with much harder burst when coupled with those other talents in the macro. and its definite.

Enrage(passive) only comes from mortal strike/colossal smash CRITS like you said. being able to line up burst at YOUR COMMAND is much more convenient than WAITING for the 6second window of enrage, because god forbid Enrage "procs" and your tunneling, or stunned, disarmed, slowed, LoS, poly'd, or pressed an attack that causes you to lose 1 sec of your 6sec Enrage buff due to a GCD. 1 sec can be life or death. or an extra crit.

[Hand Banana]

SO, as I stated before, macroing before DR use provides INSANE burst, especially when followed up with a stacked x5 Overpower, as well as your Colossal Smash procs.

my current macro:
/use Tyrannical Gladiator's Badge of Victory
/cast Blood Fury(Racial)
/cast Skull Banner
/cast Avatar
/cast Berserker Rage

followed by either OP stacks or a Recklessness + standard rotation. Casters explode, agi wearers shit themselves, and healers freak out blowing their CDs 90% of the time. So maybe hold onto your Reck and wait for your Beserker Rage to come off CD, then proceed in annihilating face.
Have fun!!!

Im really confused at 1) Why you would ever blow trinket/banner/avatar without recklessness, and 2) Why would you overpower with cds up? Our burst right now is pool 80+ rage then CS -> Macro like above +reck -> MS (if you dont have enrage up) -> Slam x10000 and maybe a HS or 2 if you have alot of rage. Overpower is a low damage filler for when you have low rage / are sitting in D stance.

And dragons roar hits for almost nothing, dont take it. If there is any more targets than 1 its damaged is like halved per target, its so bad. Shockwave is miles ahead since we dont use warbringer anymore and stormbolt is still iffy.

[Tyrionlol]

Shockwave if playing a comp without stun dr's
Bladestorm if playing a comp with stun dr's (rogues for example)

[Auberdeen]

Im really confused at 1) Why you would ever blow trinket/banner/avatar without recklessness, and 2) Why would you overpower with cds up? Our burst right now is pool 80+ rage then CS -> Macro like above +reck -> MS (if you dont have enrage up) -> Slam x10000 and maybe a HS or 2 if you have alot of rage. Overpower is a low damage filler for when you have low rage / are sitting in D stance.

And dragons roar hits for almost nothing, dont take it. If there is any more targets than 1 its damaged is like halved per target, its so bad. Shockwave is miles ahead since we dont use warbringer anymore and stormbolt is still iffy.

I got no problem explaining the obvious.
I:
1)blow trinket/banner/avatar without recklessness because I immediately dragon roar the target after i pop the macro. Reck=auto crti, D.Roar IS auto-crit. waste of a GCD if I was to bake in Reck to that macro. I know what your think, why not bake D.Roar into the macro. Well, because sometime you get cc'd IMMEDIATELY after you pop your CD's, and your burst has then evaporated. Gotta make sure your ontop of em for D.Roar.
2)I OVERPOWER with CD's up is because CD's = DAMAGE INCREASE + CRIT INCREASE?! OP is a 60% crit, not 100%

"Our burst right now is pool 80+ rage then CS -> Macro like above +reck -> MS (if you dont have enrage up) -> Slam x10000 and maybe a HS or 2 if you have alot of rage"
wrong. you clearly dont know how to play warrior if you just go by that noxxic or simcraft guide lol. full rage pool(always common in BGS, not arena tho) using OP+CD's with Slam-H.Strike macro = 100k OP crit + 50-90k-30-60k hits

"And dragons roar hits for almost nothing, dont take it."
also wrong. it hits like a freight train if you know how to use it (see above)

"Shockwave is miles ahead since we dont use warbringer anymore and stormbolt is still iffy.
" again, wrong, for 2 main reasons. 1. "since we dont use warbring anymore? so, your saying Shockwave gets a NERF and is now CD is 40sec instead of 20sec and now we don't use Warbringer? that make absolutely zero sense. 2. if you are running double DPS in 2's, especially with BM, Rogue, Feral, Mage, Enhance, you don't even need the shockwave stun. the burst is unhealable. and even if they do manage to survive, you don't have Reck baked into your macro so you can wait for Zerk Rage to come off CD and stack them and proceed with the rape.

D.Roar pic crit (with no battle shout up by mistake >.<)

[Deleted]

1)blow trinket/banner/avatar without recklessness because I immediately dragon roar the target after i pop the macro. Reck=auto crti, D.Roar IS auto-crit. waste of a GCD if I was to bake in Reck to that macro. I know what your think, why not bake D.Roar into the macro. Well, because sometime you get cc'd IMMEDIATELY after you pop your CD's, and your burst has then evaporated. Gotta make sure your ontop of em for D.Roar.

Hmm Recklessness is not on the global cooldown, and why would you save your Recklessness if you are bursting?

2)I OVERPOWER with CD's up is because CD's = DAMAGE INCREASE + CRIT INCREASE?! OP is a 60% crit, not 100%

"Our burst right now is pool 80+ rage then CS -> Macro like above +reck -> MS (if you dont have enrage up) -> Slam x10000 and maybe a HS or 2 if you have alot of rage"
wrong. you clearly dont know how to play warrior if you just go by that noxxic or simcraft guide lol. full rage pool(always common in BGS, not arena tho) using OP+CD's with Slam-H.Strike macro = 100k OP crit + 50-90k-30-60k hits

You know that Slam hits harder than Overpower in a Colossus Smash window with cooldowns up right?

"Shockwave is miles ahead since we dont use warbringer anymore and stormbolt is still iffy.
" again, wrong, for 2 main reasons. 1. "since we dont use warbring anymore? so, your saying Shockwave gets a NERF and is now CD is 40sec instead of 20sec and now we don't use Warbringer? that make absolutely zero sense. 2. if you are running double DPS in 2's, especially with BM, Rogue, Feral, Mage, Enhance, you don't even need the shockwave stun. the burst is unhealable. and even if they do manage to survive, you don't have Reck baked into your macro so you can wait for Zerk Rage to come off CD and stack them and proceed with the rape.

If you are using Shockwave you should not be using Warbringer and vice versa, mainly due to diminishing returns.

I do agree that Dragon Roar is useful in some situations, but I simply prefer Shockwave because of its ability to stun several enemies at the same time and that Shockwave actually does quite some damage.

[Auberdeen]

Hmm Recklessness is not on the global cooldown, and why would you save your Recklessness if you are bursting?



You know that Slam hits harder than Overpower in a Colossus Smash window with cooldowns up right?



If you are using Shockwave you should not be using Warbringer and vice versa, mainly due to diminishing returns.

I do agree that Dragon Roar is useful in some situations, but I simply prefer Shockwave because of its ability to stun several enemies at the same time and that Shockwave actually does quite some damage.

"Hmm Recklessness is not on the global cooldown, and why would you save your Recklessness if you are bursting?"
I save recklessness when i'm bursting because I immediately follow my burst macro with D.Roar, which is an auto crit. Having Recklessness up while using D.Roar is 100% pointless, and a waste of a GCD.

"You know that Slam hits harder than Overpower in a Colossus Smash window with cooldowns up right?"
Agreed yes Slam hits harder than OP in a C.Smash window with CD's up, but like I said I macro Slam-H.Strike together(since h.strike is off the GCD) firstly, than continue with OP stacks.

"If you are using Shockwave you should not be using Warbringer and vice versa, mainly due to diminishing returns."
That is just not true. Yes Warbringer, Shockwave, Stormbolt all share the same diminishing return class, but using them in sync one after another provides a 7sec stunlock, provided you are not playing with another class that has just used an ability that shares the same DR class. A 7sec lock with an enraged warrior on you... have fun with that.

[Rorke]

Dragon Roar is inferior to both Bladestorm and Shockwave. Shockwave is still the best because you need a stun. The only time you should spec into Bladestorm is if you're doing RBG's, or your arena teammate is a Rogue.

[Hand Banana]

I got no problem explaining the obvious.
I:
1)blow trinket/banner/avatar without recklessness because I immediately dragon roar the target after i pop the macro. Reck=auto crti, D.Roar IS auto-crit. waste of a GCD if I was to bake in Reck to that macro. I know what your think, why not bake D.Roar into the macro. Well, because sometime you get cc'd IMMEDIATELY after you pop your CD's, and your burst has then evaporated. Gotta make sure your ontop of em for D.Roar.
2)I OVERPOWER with CD's up is because CD's = DAMAGE INCREASE + CRIT INCREASE?! OP is a 60% crit, not 100%

"Our burst right now is pool 80+ rage then CS -> Macro like above +reck -> MS (if you dont have enrage up) -> Slam x10000 and maybe a HS or 2 if you have alot of rage"
wrong. you clearly dont know how to play warrior if you just go by that noxxic or simcraft guide lol. full rage pool(always common in BGS, not arena tho) using OP+CD's with Slam-H.Strike macro = 100k OP crit + 50-90k-30-60k hits

"And dragons roar hits for almost nothing, dont take it."
also wrong. it hits like a freight train if you know how to use it (see above)

"Shockwave is miles ahead since we dont use warbringer anymore and stormbolt is still iffy.
" again, wrong, for 2 main reasons. 1. "since we dont use warbring anymore? so, your saying Shockwave gets a NERF and is now CD is 40sec instead of 20sec and now we don't use Warbringer? that make absolutely zero sense. 2. if you are running double DPS in 2's, especially with BM, Rogue, Feral, Mage, Enhance, you don't even need the shockwave stun. the burst is unhealable. and even if they do manage to survive, you don't have Reck baked into your macro so you can wait for Zerk Rage to come off CD and stack them and proceed with the rape.

Ahh, double dps 2s, I get it now.

OP hits for shit, probably about 1/3 of what slam hits for during reck thats why you dont use it unless you have too aka no rage. Slam noncrit > OP crit.

Most ive ever been hit for with D.roar is 50kish with full cds. Its split with any targets, so any person with a pet, or any team with a hunter's stampede for instance, your lucky to get of 30k hit with it. Shockwave is vastly superior with the stun and usually does more damage. D.roar "when you know how to use it" does more? Like when, with all the rest of your cds like anything else? If you really want to convince people grab a friend with 67+% resil and try your perfect way to do it, I would be honestly surprised if it hit for more than 100k, which shockwave can get close too.

Warbringer is garbage, with the HL glyph nerf and rage problems some wars are moving out of the glyphs that help mobility (like heroic leap and hindering strikes) so we need the uptime from jug or doubletime. Yea if your playing go full retard blow cds double dps 2s you dont need it, but in 3s you do as you will get kited.

[Deleted]

That is just not true. Yes Warbringer, Shockwave, Stormbolt all share the same diminishing return class, but using them in sync one after another provides a 7sec stunlock.

Warrior stuns that last 7 sec if they are synced into each other is not true this patch. This was true last patch with Warbringer and Shockwave, because the stun from Warbringer was not on DR with Shockwave. Now you cannot get stunned for 7 sec in a row by a warrior, because that is quite impossible because of how DR works.

[pkm]

Probably shockwave in arena but then again an instant crit on 1 min cooldown is pretty darn good burst.

[Deleted]

Warrior stuns that last 7 sec if they are synced into each other is not true this patch. This was true last patch with Warbringer and Shockwave, because the stun from Warbringer was not on DR with Shockwave. Now you cannot get stunned for 7 sec in a row by a warrior, because that is quite impossible because of how DR works.

4.0s shockwave
1.5s warbringer
1.0s stormbolt

6.5s, i guess he rounded up

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I can't see how Auberdeen/Reebarus managed a 600k crit single target with Dragon Roar in pvp gear. I tried to reconstruct it and came only up with HALF (300k) of that damage (popped a mogu potion to counter the racial) with trinket, avatar, skull banner, dancing steel procc + being enraged. 400k when i traded insignia for Shado Pan rep trinket (8800 strength on procc) but it took me quite a while to line that up with dancing steel. What i'm missing here? Must be something crucial.

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I regulary prefer avatar + shockwave, having a 4s lockdown on at least 2/3 of the cooldown of a guaranteed burst comes more handy for me while capping points in 2s and stunning two people at once for a rather long time in 3s is huge as well. Don't forget that you can also use it to disable the zoo (stampede) and it clearly helps me get away when somebody else gets "red & angry".

[Spectral]

For what it's worth, playing 2v2 Arena on my RDruid with Ele Shaman partner, a Rogue/Warrior team essentially globaled my Shaman partner while he had Shamanistic Rage up, inside a smokebomb. He told me Dragon Roar hit him for 115K. With Mail, PvP Resilience, and -30% damage CD up, that's a BIG hit. I wouldn't say that Dragon Roar is generally as good as Shockwave, but it can situationally deliver a ton of burst.

[Korgoth]

For what it's worth, playing 2v2 Arena on my RDruid with Ele Shaman partner, a Rogue/Warrior team essentially globaled my Shaman partner while he had Shamanistic Rage up, inside a smokebomb. He told me Dragon Roar hit him for 115K. With Mail, PvP Resilience, and -30% damage CD up, that's a BIG hit. I wouldn't say that Dragon Roar is generally as good as Shockwave, but it can situationally deliver a ton of burst.

No its not. 115 is not big. My Frost DK does that on Obliterate almost every 10s. Rogues do that with Eviscerate. Mages are doing 200K+ as arcane now. Chaos Bolt is doing over 200k now.


To the OP, I am actually preferring Bladestorm these days, for 3 reasons, its ok single target damage, its unstoppable damage most of the time, and it can stop CC on you. At 40s on the CD Shockwave just cant compete with other stuns in the game, so since I am almost always playing with someone else that has a better stun I find its value not great. Dragon Roar is a gimmick, its a 1min damage button thats damage is not spectacular. I did just get the Strength trinket, so maybe Ill see what I can crit D Roar for with that, but if 115k is the standard its meh at best.

[Deleted]

For what it's worth, playing 2v2 Arena on my RDruid with Ele Shaman partner, a Rogue/Warrior team essentially globaled my Shaman partner while he had Shamanistic Rage up, inside a smokebomb. He told me Dragon Roar hit him for 115K. With Mail, PvP Resilience, and -30% damage CD up, that's a BIG hit. I wouldn't say that Dragon Roar is generally as good as Shockwave, but it can situationally deliver a ton of burst.

His Mail armor will not really help him against Dragon Roar since it ignores all armor. On the other hand a 155k crit is not that high if you consider that Dragon Roar is on a 1 minute cooldown. Like Korgoth said, frost death knights crit the same as Dragon Roar with Obliterate but with a much lower cooldown. There is nothing to complain about Dragon Roar, other than it gives bursty warriors even more burst.