"undercover sting operations" on the general public

[chrisberb]

Just read this article and was curious about how some of you feel about it.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/b...1#.UWrQALWG18F

For those who don't want to read the entire article, here's the scenario in question:

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The summer scene was interrupted by a bit of theater staged by police: A dark car raced down the block before stopping. Another vehicle carrying plainclothes officers wasn't far behind. When the driver got out and ran, the officers gave chase, yelling, "Stop! Police!" her suit says.

Myers' daughter, seeing that the driver left the car door open, went over and peered inside to see personal items that included what looked like a bundle of cash — in reality, a dollar bill wrapped around pieces of newspaper. The girl had called her mother over when another set of police officers suddenly pulled up in a van and forced them to the ground, according to Myers' account.

"Get on the floor? For what?" Myers recalled telling the officers
The officers took them into custody, even though they never touched anything inside the car, the suit says. While entering a stationhouse in handcuffs, Myers spotted the driver of the car standing outside, smoking a cigarette. It dawned on her that he was an undercover with a starring role in the sting — a suspicion supported by the court ruling.

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Bait cars are one thing, but leaving a wallet on the ground? Come on

[Deleted]

Simply shouldn't be legal.

[Sam the Wiser]

I've always wondered why cops can just bait people. Seems way to dirty of a trick if they want true justice.

[Theinquisition]

I've always wondered why cops can just bait people. Seems way to dirty of a trick if they want true justice.

I would argue that they aren't "tricking" anyone, the people involved have the option not to take something that doesn't belong to them.

[Bakis]

I would argue that they aren't "tricking" anyone, the people involved have the option not to take something that doesn't belong to them.

Still, with the limited resources law enforcement has there should be more fruitfull things to do outside arms and narcotics.

[Spectral]

Seems way to dirty of a trick if they want true justice.

The idea that police want "true justice" literally brought a smirk to my face.

[Theinquisition]

Still, with the limited resources law enforcement has there should be more fruitfull things to do outside arms and narcotics.

Idk honestly. Especially with bait cars. If someone will take the time to steal from a bait car than you know that they will steal from yours or mine. The person commiting the offense has the basic human choice of doing or not doing.

I think it is a viable way to prevent future crime.

[Bakis]

Idk honestly. Especially with bait cars. If someone will take the time to steal from a bait car than you know that they will steal from yours or mine. The person commiting the offense has the basic human choice of doing or not doing.

I think it is a viable way to prevent future crime.

Yea I think it should be allowed too but it need to be regulated to certain crimes that gives longtime sentences and not petty crimes

[Zonas]

Eh, I suppose if the person attempts to take something from the car, even if it was intentionally done so by the police, it's still illegal.

It just seems like a really bad waste of resources. "Let's leave our cars open to trick potential theives instead of solving that double rape murder of those two little girls."

And this just seems too easy to abuse, I'm sure there are plenty of cases where they attack someone when they were simply walking nearby.

[chrisberb]

Idk honestly. Especially with bait cars. If someone will take the time to steal from a bait car than you know that they will steal from yours or mine. The person commiting the offense has the basic human choice of doing or not doing.

I think it is a viable way to prevent future crime.

I agree with bait cars and the people who steal them or from them, they show more of a measure of intent. But I feel like a wallet/purse/random item demonstrates more a lack of honesty than intent. Add this on top of stop and frisk, and everyone is now just seen as a potential criminal.

[This name sucks]

So for the wallet thing.

What happens if you see a random wallet on the ground and you start fishing through it to find ID but halfway through the cops come and tackle you for taking the bait.

Theres no real way you can prove you were looking for a driver's license and not just going to pocket any cash.

[drwelfare]

I've always wondered why cops can just bait people. Seems way to dirty of a trick if they want true justice.

I see it as more of a case of them just following orders, they need to catch some people for something, they just make use of what tools the department has.

I see stings as abuse, there are lots of legitimate crimes out there being committed, but they let those slip by and entrap others instead.

[Theinquisition]

So for the wallet thing.

What happens if you see a random wallet on the ground and you start fishing through it to find ID but halfway through the cops come and tackle you for taking the bait.

Theres no real way you can prove you were looking for a driver's license and not just going to pocket any cash.

EAsier thing to do would be not touch something that doesn't belong to you.

[Reeve]

I have no problem with the idea of something like this. The police obviously shouldn't have arrested the person involved if she didn't take the bait, but that'll get worked out in court, where I'm sure she'll be acquitted.

It's not entrapment if the police don't solicit criminal activity directly.

[Tribunal]

This is the "modernization" of police work in this country, and it's scary. No, I'm not someone who believes the cops are out to get me or anything, but the degree to which current LE can toe the entrapment line is frightening.

It only gets worse under the good ol' Patriot Act umbrella. Spooks (can be CIA or FBI depending on some intricate jurisdictional rules, and occasionally the rest of the alphabet soup gets involved too) can approach someone they consider a potential terrorist (say, someone who just lost a relative as collateral damage), posing as fellow radicals, and offer them an opportunity to take part in an attack. The agency provides ALL the planning, materials, support, etc. All the person has to do to be arrested is go along with it and eventually show up at the final attack site.

So while yes, if they were truly willing to carry out the attack something should be done about them, there's also the case to be made for: would they have done any of it in the first place? Did they feel intimidated by the fact that extremists still rule large areas of the Middle East? Etc. Etc. And what happens when they give someone an idea and then aren't able to shut it down at the last moment?

It's just.. a non-professional, quick-and-dirty version of law enforcement that I find more troublesome than it's worth. I think we really need to bring back a focus on good, basic, police/detective work, including funding enough officers to have good community integration. There are sooooo many incidents that could be avoided if there was just someone there trained to notice signs and have the power to act upon them.

[Theinquisition]

I have no problem with the idea of something like this. The police obviously shouldn't have arrested the person involved if she didn't take the bait, but that'll get worked out in court, where I'm sure she'll be acquitted.

It's not entrapment if the police don't solicit criminal activity directly.

Exactly, you hit the nail on the head mr reeve

[Miseration]

EAsier thing to do would be not touch something that doesn't belong to you.

But they didn't touch a damn thing. I feel like your point is invalid in this instance.

[Arlon]

I really wish someone in US would smack the guys who authorize such actions for law enforcement.

[Raintola]

So for the wallet thing.

What happens if you see a random wallet on the ground and you start fishing through it to find ID but halfway through the cops come and tackle you for taking the bait.

Theres no real way you can prove you were looking for a driver's license and not just going to pocket any cash.

It's not a crime to pick a wallet up off the ground. It is a crime to drive off in a car that doesn't belong to you.

[Tribunal]

It's not a crime to pick a wallet up off the ground. It is a crime to drive off in a car that doesn't belong to you.

Which no one in this article or discussion did?

The ladies KID walked over to a car that had been abandoned and the woman followed her (per their account, and seemingly supported by the judge's ruling). A stupid idea? Perhaps. But in no way shape or form a crime.