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  1. #1

    T16 Ret set bonus speculation and discussion

    We will soon see the 5.4 PTR with T16 items and set bonuses appear.

    This thread is aimed at discussing and speculating over the T16 Ret set bonuses. Which bonuses would you like to see? Which bonus would you NOT like to see?

    What I want to see is for EVERY class and spec to get a rotational changer and a raid changer:

    (2) Whenever your censure or seal of righteousness deal damage, you have a chance for damaging spells that consume holy power to add 10 seconds to your active inquisition buff.
    (4) Your avenging wrath now also increases the damage you and your party or raid members deal by 5% for 10 seconds.

    the 2P is 2.5 RPPM on censure or seal of righteousness dealing damage.

    What I don't want to see:

    1) a bland buff to one or more spells.
    2) a bland damage proc.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  2. #2
    Blademaster Filfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    .
    (4) Your avenging wrath now also increases the damage you and your party or raid members deal by 5% for 10 seconds.
    Please, no. Not as ret.
    To be completely honest I love our current T15 set bonus' but I'd love to see something that buffs our AoE/increases Holy Power generation.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by filfa View Post
    Please, no. Not as ret.
    To be completely honest I love our current T15 set bonus' but I'd love to see something that buffs our AoE/increases Holy Power generation.
    why not? I'd love to see every class and spec get a 2P that changes the rotation or at least augments it, and a 4P that is a boon to the raid in some way. DPS give damage buffs, tanks give survival buffs and healers give a healing taken buff.

    EDIT: you do NOT want your endgame tier set bonuses to be band aids for situational encounters. a buff to AoE damage will not help on bosses like Jin'Rokh, Lei Shen, Dark Animus, Twin Consorts, Ji-kun or any other boss with no reliable AoE.
    Last edited by nzall; 2013-06-06 at 02:47 PM.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  4. #4
    (2) Your Divine Storm now also refreshes the duration on all existing Censure debuffs.
    (4) Your Execution Sentence, Light's Hammer and Holy Prism causes your target to take 5% damage from all sources for 15 seconds (Holy Prism 5 second debuff, ES+LH 15 seconds)

  5. #5
    Given that the blues mentioned they want to see melee have a "niche" again, since all of the ranged "penalties" (like no mobility or moving while casting, etc) have been relaxed and ranged are now highly preferred due to mechanics, I would assume that we see some sort of buff to melee's cleaving ability.

    For ret, as we are already strong ST but very weak MT, I'd assume something like a 2pc that buffs cleave and a 4pc that alters rotation

    2pc: Your TV now hits an additional target(s) for 50% damage, and DS deals x% more damage if it strikes 3+ targets
    4pc: Your Exorcisms now have a [RPPM] chance to reset the CD on your t90 talents (obv higher chance on HPr, lower on ES/LH)

    First would give us some passive cleave that still allows a choice of DS vs TV.
    Second would be a throwback to the t10 DS-reset proc that was so awesome, but would likely be tough to balance given the 20sec vs 60sec CDs. Still, can you imagine lining up back to back ES's?
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  6. #6
    2pc: Inquisition bonus effects increased by 30%. (+39% holy damage, +13% crit)
    4pc: Hand of Light can now crit.

    Either way, the new set bonus will need to be quite powerful as incentive to move us away from the t15 4pc.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    to be honest i would love to see something simple to buff our sustained without making our burst even more stupid

    IE: 2p Your Censure now stacks to (insert random number above 5 here 10 for example) ...yes this is stupid strong .. but hey we can hope right?..this also wont blow our burst outa control
    4p your auto attacks have a chance (RPPM) to grant you 1 holy power ....maybe i got these backwards....

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    why not? I'd love to see every class and spec get a 2P that changes the rotation or at least augments it, and a 4P that is a boon to the raid in some way. DPS give damage buffs, tanks give survival buffs and healers give a healing taken buff.
    Because having such a wide reaching effect makes it prone to problems.

    Likely to end up in some annoying situation where it becomes optimal to sit on your CDs to stack them with other peoples, which is hardly fun when your dps is being throttled by other players, or you'll be sitting on them for fight mechanics so that you can buff other people, they also sound incredibly difficult to balance, especially in PVP and prone to abusing.

    I don't mind abilities that tweak your rotation a bit (I generally likes ones that make using an abilities trigger some sort of buff that mixes things up), but it shouldn't be so far reaching as impacting other players dps hugely, it's bad enough when tier pieces aren't dropping without them being "collect 4 to unlock bloodlust".

    EDIT: you do NOT want your endgame tier set bonuses to be band aids for situational encounters. a buff to AoE damage will not help on bosses like Jin'Rokh, Lei Shen, Dark Animus, Twin Consorts, Ji-kun or any other boss with no reliable AoE.
    Plenty of tier bonuses aren't universally useful, Warlock 2pc and 4pc is poor on single target and can plummet in value the more targets you add, just the way things are sometimes. Obviously not ideal, but it's certainly not unprecedented.

  9. #9
    Anything that is useful for protection paladins
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #10
    I quite like the current set bonuses, I hope they somehow make the 4set baseline or replace divine purpose with it.

    For new ones, Hand of light being able to crit would be great but really strong, I'd love something like "Every holy power spent reduces the cooldown on Wings, HA and guardian by 1 second"
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    (2) Whenever your censure or seal of righteousness deal damage, you have a chance for damaging spells that consume holy power to add 10 seconds to your active inquisition buff.
    That seems like a bland buff you said you don't want. Basically just permanent inquisition. Sounds pretty dicey with respect to using HP too if you could drop HP at any point.

  12. #12
    I think at current (and t16, assuming they don't change anything) the holy power generation we have now is really strong, any additional from a bonus or anything would likely be a minimal increase.

    Faesroll... Maybe yes, maybe no; HoL being able to crit would likely be "on par" with a strong tier set. My napkin math estimates that it would be approximately a 5% dps increase, but would likely be closer to 4% once we lose 4pc t15. However, it would certainly increase the value of mastery and crit in the process.

    I suppose I just miss Righteous Vengeance and having it crit with the t9 2pc bonus. I would also welcome a new passive that grants our current 4pc to us... but that is just wishful thinking.
    Last edited by Aeoniel; 2013-06-06 at 08:58 PM.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeoniel View Post
    I would also welcome a new passive that grants our current 4pc to us... but that is just wishful thinking.
    In all honesty thats somthing they would add at the start of an expansion.. not the last tier ...sad panda =(

  14. #14
    2pc: Your Templar's Verdict, Divine Storm, Word of Glory and Inquisition spells only consume up to 2 Holy Power for their maximum effect.

    4pc: Your Templar's Verdict and Divine Storm spells have a 60% chance to reset the cooldown of your Holy Prism and a 100% chance to add 2 seconds of duration to your existing Execution Sentence and Light's Hammer spells.


    Note: This is essentially meant as a rolling feature like DK diseases, in the case of ES, it would keep the snapshotted stats and roll the last tick past the 10 second mark over and over, then bloom in the last one.
    Last edited by Veliane; 2013-06-06 at 10:39 PM.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    2pc: Your Templar's Verdict, Divine Storm, Word of Glory and Inquisition spells only consume up to 2 Holy Power for their maximum effect.

    4pc: Your Templar's Verdict and Divine Storm spells have a 60% chance to reset the cooldown of your Holy Prism and a 100% chance to add 2 seconds of duration to your existing Execution Sentence and Light's Hammer spells.


    Note: This is essentially meant as a rolling feature like DK diseases, in the case of ES, it would keep the snapshotted stats and roll the last tick past the 10 second mark over and over, then bloom in the last one.
    I really like the 4pc ... cant see it happening tho... =(

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  16. #16
    Blademaster Filfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeoniel View Post
    I would also welcome a new passive that grants our current 4pc to us... but that is just wishful thinking.
    Well... we have had a set bonus become passive since... T12? (Judge gives Holy Power) :3
    Last edited by Filfa; 2013-06-07 at 12:22 AM.

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    First of all the non tier changes.
    Divine Storm and Hammer of the Righteouss now has a 12 yard aoe range and HotR no longer requires a target.

    2set - Your Crusader Strike / Hammer of the Righteouss increases Censure / Seal of Righteousness damage by 20%/10% for 6 seconds.

    4set - Templar's Verdict / Divine Storm adds a dot on targets dealing 35% of the damage done as holy damage over 3 seconds and increases the damage of the next TV/DS by 5%/10%/15% (8 sec duration buff).





    I really, REALLY don't see why people want proc set bonuses... they're hell to work with and are utterly useless unless you're lucky. With cds on pull with hero and everything I can either burst out 3-400k dps all the way up to 6-700k dps depending on 4set crits and procrate... It's fucking stupid, NO TO FUCKING RNG!
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2013-06-07 at 03:32 AM.
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  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    First of all the non tier changes.
    Divine Storm and Hammer of the Righteouss now has a 12 yard aoe range and HotR no longer requires a target.
    I would LOVE to see this,, theres really nothing wrong with the dmg that our DS/HOTR does.. its just the clunky way they work.. its all mechanics thats teh problem with ret aoe... not the actual dmg they do... ret can do soem stupid aoe.. IF and only IF things are stacked like a game of jenga

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  19. #19
    Cosmic reverse psychology... it is totally a thing.

  20. #20
    Just remember that none of the changes will affect anything that prot uses (because they don't want to give prot even more incentive to use it)
    So it's probably going to be limited to : Inquisition / DS / TV / Mastery / Censure

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