Worried with the lack of content, and Rift's future.

[Lathais]

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post4227429

Yeah, when I played DnD and I had a cool idea for a quest I'd write it down too. Doesn't mean I actually did anything with it, ever. But you write it down just in case. I actually never did anything with any of it, though I am thinking of doing something with it all soon. It's great to have ideas and some direction but when you do things like open world raids.....I just don't know what to say anymore.

[Calliso]

I get the feeling that white board is just there to tease us and might not even be serious in anyway. Of course it could also include actually potential ideas but doesn't mean something will come of it. Anyway I prefer to see actual solid info and not speculate on some random stuff on a white board.

[Pua]

There is always the potential a company will make a poor F2P transition [TOR].

SW:TOR has risen to over 2 million subscribers since going F2P, utterly rejuvinating the game - can you define what you mean by "poor"?

[Kelimbror]

SW:TOR has risen to over 2 million subscribers since going F2P, utterly rejuvinating the game - can you define what you mean by "poor"?

Oh really? 2 million subscribers? Can I see the link to that gem of made up data? Since you know, they haven't given concrete sub numbers since before they went F2P. And let me stop you before you try to say that new accounts = subscribers.

If you're going to randomly defend a game in another games thread, at least have facts to back you up.

[Synoviarift]

SW:TOR has risen to over 2 million subscribers since going F2P, utterly rejuvinating the game - can you define what you mean by "poor"?

I believe you when you say the game is utterly rejuvenated. All the evidence points in this direction. However, to say that it has over 2 million subscribers since going F2P is unsubstantiated. All we have to go off of is within the following:

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20130321

Specifically, this paragraph:

So how did it go? Well, you can see for yourself when you log in to the game. Our new, high capacity servers are teeming with people. Since launch of the Free-to-Play option we have had over 2 million new accounts created and have thousands of new players jumping in every single day. This means more people to play with, more growth for your guilds, more Warzone matches, and more ways for players to continue to advance their characters.

Having 2 million "new accounts created" is substantially different than having 2 million subscribers. What that does mean, however, is that at least 2 million people picked up the game since it went F2P - which is outstanding. Of that, you can probably expect only a fraction to actually send in a credit card number to open a subscription. That's simply the nature of the sub-based model.

[RoninaThorstone]

Swtor is more a testament to how bad your F2P model can be... And still be better than subscription only.

I don't think that Rift is going to go F2P, but if it does... I would hope they would look to the rest of the MMO genre for clues as to how to do it right (and in the case of swtor, how to avoid doing it wrong)

[Synoviarift]

Swtor is more a testament to how bad your F2P model can be... And still be better than subscription only.

I don't think that Rift is going to go F2P, but if it does... I would hope they would look to the rest of the MMO genre for clues as to how to do it right (and in the case of swtor, how to avoid doing it wrong)

From what I've read, Tera has done the F2P transition quite well. I don't have any solid evidence supporting this but I've spoken to quite a few folks who actively play Tera who have attested to how smooth and how well-done the F2P transition was. Further, there's some relatively decent evidence out there pointing to how well Tera is currently doing as a result.

If Rift went F2P (I don't think it will anytime within the next year), I would not be opposed but I hope they do their homework. I've long been an avid supporter of leveraging Deeps Depot in a great capacity. I would absolutely LOVE to see vanity items of all sorts in the Depot much the same way that Blizzard stocked their online store with all kinds of companions, mounts, and more. If Rift were to put out some cool mounts and pets at, say $10-15 a pop, I'd drop some cash in a hurry.

[Pua]

Oh really? 2 million subscribers? Can I see the link to that gem of made up data? Since you know, they haven't given concrete sub numbers since before they went F2P. And let me stop you before you try to say that new accounts = subscribers.

If you're going to randomly defend a game in another games thread, at least have facts to back you up.

It's not made up - it was part of my Raptr news feed approximately a month ago, and I'll find the link for you when I get home.

Don't get so upset. Seriously. If you're going to cry about someone posting something that you don't like online, go find the information for yourself rather than get irate.

Edit:

Here's the section from my Rapr feed, with what I assume to be the source:

"The once ailing MMORPG has gained two million new subscriptions following the switch to free-to-play. When Star Wars: The Old Republic first launched, it looked like it could be the game to challenge World of Warcraft's dominance of subscription-based MMOs. Its subscription base was the fastest growing in the genre's history, with more than 1.7 million people joining the game in less than two months. Things didn't stay rosy for long, though. Despite high early subscription rates, players began to leave the game. In an attempt to boost its faltering membership, the game's publisher, Electronic Arts, decided to switch The Old Republic to a free-to-play model in late 2012. It's a move that seems to have paid off. In the months since, The Old Republic has added more than two million new players."

Going from a game that was dying to thriving servers again, thanks to the F2P model, my question to Fencers stands.

What do you define as "poor", given that SW:TOR has done extremely well since going to F2P?

[Aeula]

Bah! Just when i was considering going back to RIFT aswell...WoW is boring and TESO is begining to look like a flop to me...

Hopefuly Trion get back on their feet again soon.

[Fencers]

SW:TOR has risen to over 2 million subscribers since going F2P, utterly rejuvinating the game - can you define what you mean by "poor"?

Controversial, divisive of the player base, bad press &/or marketing.

It is fair to say SWTOR's F2P transition was wrought with a ton of controversy that was mostly negative in the press and intelligentsia of the video game industry.

That is divorced from SWTOR finding success in F2P eventually. But their transition was less than smooth.

A poor transition.

[Pua]

Controversial, divisive of the player base, bad press &/or marketing.

It is fair to say SWTOR's F2P transition was wrought with a ton of controversy that was mostly negative in the press and intelligentsia of the video game industry.

That is divorced from SWTOR finding success in F2P eventually. But their transition was less than smooth.

A poor transition.

I want to keep this on topic.

If you're implying that the launch of F2P was poor, I can get onboard with that - it's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. But the model itself has been very successful with a game that looked like it was going to sink like a stone not long after its release. Rift, now into its first expansion, is in need of a shot in the arm; I think the SW:TOR F2P model can work as it's been proven to do so elsewhere, essentially by providing enough of the game to encourage people to subscribe.

My biggest concern with Trion is that they fall into the content > systems trap. That can work when you devote large swathes of your resource budget to it, but it's hard to pull off if you're a smaller design studio working on another game.

[Fencers]

Bah! Just when i was considering going back to RIFT aswell...WoW is boring and TESO is begining to look like a flop to me...

Hopefuly Trion get back on their feet again soon.

There is nothing actually wrong with the content now if you were to start up. We haven't had a major content delay either. So a "lack of content" is a bit of a skewed view if reading this thread alone.

The current state is such: last patch was pretty light in content for veteran players. There are still some long reputation grinds.

A new player would likely be busy for a few months or more. Rift is a looooong game compared to other current MMOs.

By the time most new/returning players cap out on any one system in Rift, the next patch would be out. Which we are on track for in line with all the other patches. Historically speaking.

Don't misconstrue veteran players running out of raid content after 6 months with Rift having a dearth of content overall.

Once again, this thread is not totally accurate or relevant for new/returning players. It would take them months to burn through everything.

Not coincidentally veteran have had months to burn through that content. Natch.

If you're implying that the launch of F2P was poor, I can get onboard with that - it's a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

This is what I am saying.

I do believe F2P to be the most viable form of MMO sustainability in the long term. I even worked for a F2P MMO publisher.

How TOR converted, amid controversy and bizarre public relations, was a poor execution.

[Kelimbror]

It's not made up

Yes, it is. SWTOR has gained 2 million new accounts since going F2P. NOT SUBSCRIBERS.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/star-wa...switch-6405722
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/SWT...F2P,21664.html

Go ahead and Google it if you wish. That way you can have the hundreds of links that all report the same thing. You know how many links confirm your made up data? Zero. Zero links. So in your haste, by saying people are 'crying' because they call you out on BS, you are just making yourself look confrontational and ridiculous.

Furthermore, no one is saying that it didn't get them players or money. That's how you want to define success. People are talking about a) the horrible transition b) the horrible model. Those concepts aren't mutually exclusive with it gaining players. (not subscribers)

And to top it all off, this is a Rift forum. SWTOR has it's own subforum where you are free to praise the game to the high heavens at your desire.

[RoninaThorstone]

*snip*

You took gameinformers "reporting" over Biowares?

If swtor had gained 2 million subscribers it would be plastered on every MMO website add banner, something like "WE HAVE MORE SUBSCRIBERS THAN EVER. SUCK IT.- EA"

You do realize that at it's peak, swtor had 1.7 million subscribers right?

F2P, for swtor, has clearly saved the game (from bad management mainly)
and F2P isn't the 'future' of MMOs, it's the 'now' of MMOs. If you don't include some sort of F2P option in your game... You are going to have a bad time. The past 5 years have hammered that lesson in so hard that many MMOs are now launching as f2p or b2p.

Rift has managed to survive as P2P by being better at WoW at what WoW does best, PVE content. Rift, if anything, has proven that even if you do "out wow" wow. You still won't have 12 million players.

But anyways, it's 2 million new accounts. Not subscribers.

[WarpedAcorn]

Rift has managed to survive as P2P by being better at WoW at what WoW does best, PVE content. Rift, if anything, has proven that even if you do "out wow" wow. You still won't have 12 million players.

This right here is something I think the industry is starting to realize. When I played Rift I tried to get my WoW crew over here because it was way better than WoW in everything they cared about (namely PvE Content and Raiding). But they just flat out refused. WoW is quite frankly a cultural icon, and the best a franchise can hope for is to carve out a reliable niche. Rift has successfully done that, but it does concern me (as a fan on the sidelines) that they might be neglecting that niche.

[Pua]

So in your haste, by saying people are 'crying' because they call you out on BS, you are just making yourself look confrontational and ridiculous.

Please take a moment to step back and cool down before replying to me again. So mad. So confrontational. People subscribing to the game, in the sense I mentioned, are those making their accounts and and starting to play it. Maybe they'll buy the full subscription, maybe they'll make do with cartel coins, maybe they'll toddle off and play another game.

All I said was the move to F2P for SW:TOR wasn't poor, and that's the only mistake I made (with regard to Fencers precisely because I misunderstood his or her point). You and Bardarian immediately read a single sentence, started foaming at the mouth, and drooled all over your keyboard in a slack-jawed rush to correct what I'd written.

I'm actually sat laughing at how seriously you both take this. Give yourselves a shake for crying out loud.

And to top it all off, this is a Rift forum. SWTOR has it's own subforum where you are free to praise the game to the high heavens at your desire.

First you say I'm making things up, then you put words in my mouth because you clearly believe I'm nothing more than a blind franchise supporter who came to praise a game I happen to be playing. You're a clown. You require only the squeaky nose and squirty flower to complete the image. Now go away, have your bath, and get some perspective of discussions on the Internet.

We're talking about Rift's future, and SW:TOR proves that the F2P model can be successful. Other games have managed to do pretty well in the past too, so long as people don't say "lol 12 million" and be more realistic. I would imagine a PAYING subscriber base of between 750,000 and 1,000,000 would be very profitable longer term, but you need to build a product that people want to pay for.

F2P should be designed to showcase parts of the game that make a player interested, and then want to take that extra step. If you combine that with a monthly fee option, as well as microtransactions, you can make a game profitable enough to see more content and make the company some more cash. I suspect Rift's problem may well be that any transition to this type of thing would be viewed as a failure (as is typical), but also that the game isn't really designed from the bottom up with this finance model in mind.

[Kelimbror]

they might be neglecting that niche.

It's what I'm afraid of, because it seems like they have thrown their hat into the FPS genre in order to have less competition for a bigger slice of pie. While there are several FPS games, those players tend to play more of those genres compared to people paying for MMOs. Sure people play tons of F2P mmos, but not that many actually pay for multiple ones.

FPS players do tend to pay for a plethora of shooters though.

[RoninaThorstone]

All I said was the move to F2P for SW:TOR wasn't poor, and that's the only mistake I made (with regard to Fencers precisely because I misunderstood his or her point). You and Bardarian immediately read a single sentence, started foaming at the mouth, and drooled all over your keyboard in a slack-jawed rush to correct what I'd written.

You also wrote that swtor gained 2 million subscribers since nov15th and then tried to defend that statement with an article from... gameinformer.

If you don't like being corrected, then double check your sources.

[Pua]

FPS players do tend to pay for a plethora of shooters though.

Most of them are B2P, however, with limited replay value in a lot of cases. I'm not sure what Trion have to learn there with regards to Rift and the OP's concerns, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

You also wrote that swtor gained 2 million subscribers since nov15th and then tried to defend that statement with an article from... gameinformer.

If you don't like being corrected, then double check your sources.

No, I wrote that SW:TOR gained two million subscribers according to a story from Raptr and then linked where that story was sourced from. There are plenty of pages, linked by others, relating to the information I cited and it's accurate. If you want to go down the troll route of bickering about your definition of a word (a debate that other posters have moved on from due to its irrelevance), just to congratulate yourself for apparently being right about something meaningless, while also ignoring the entire context of what was said, be my guest. There are plenty of trolls out there, just like yourself, who help themselves sleep by doing so.

Better people will be discussing the topic and shaking their head at you, sweetie.

We can do without the insults or calling others trolls. Infracted. -Edge

[Edge-]

Let's keep this discussion on Rift please. If you want to discuss SWTOR, there's a whole other forum for the.