Page 13 of 16 FirstFirst ...
3
11
12
13
14
15
... LastLast
  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    A lot of people have said they'd kill Garrosh. Saurfang, Vol'jin, Jaina, Varian, I think Sylvanas has indicated she would, Lorth'emar.
    this. Its pretty much anyones game by the looks of it..

  2. #242
    The Lightbringer Wildberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Waiting for WoD (..To be scrapped completely)
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    As for Warchief of the Horde, Saurang is mostly a "military Orc". He probably isn't interested in politics. So the Horde will either be ruled by "council" or Lor'themar/Vol'jin. Lor'themar seems likely, for a military guy he is a surprisingly good political leader. Vol'jin ... He doesn't seem to be much of a politician but if the left over trolls from the ToT joins the Horde ...
    I don't really think a Council is the best thing for the Horde, I mean we've had a strong Central leader since Warcraft I, Councils are more of an Ally thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    I don't really think a Council is the best thing for the Horde, I mean we've had a strong Central leader since Warcraft I, Councils are more of an Ally thing.
    The reason I lean toward more of a Council type structure is because the consolidation of leadership was pretty much part of the Orcish culture's shift due to corruption, and the direct meddling of Gul'dan. Until Doomhammer's usurpation of it, the Horde *was* led by a Council - the Shadow Council in fact, with the Warchief being nothing but a figurehead through which Gul'dan could steer the Horde to his whim. Before the corruption and Gul'dan, the Horde didn't have a centralized leadership... just the Elder Shamans occasionally meeting during a festival period, who seemed to provide a rough course for the Orcish clans to follow based on the wisdom of the ancestors and elemental spirits.

    One of the merits of a strong, centralized leadership is decisiveness and speed to act... but in a world rife with both political intrigue and the very real possibility of magical or spiritual corruption from any of a variety of sources, the flaws tend to outweigh the merits. WoW has played this trope over and over again - from Arthas to Kael'thas, strong leaders or leaders-to-be brought down by circumstances and forces not entirely in their control.
     /l、
    (゚、 。 7
     l、 ~ヽ
     じしf_, )ノ <-- I am a proud Death Knight.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The reason I lean toward more of a Council type structure is because the consolidation of leadership was pretty much part of the Orcish culture's shift due to corruption, and the direct meddling of Gul'dan. Until Doomhammer's usurpation of it, the Horde *was* led by a Council - the Shadow Council in fact, with the Warchief being nothing but a figurehead through which Gul'dan could steer the Horde to his whim. Before the corruption and Gul'dan, the Horde didn't have a centralized leadership... just the Elder Shamans occasionally meeting during a festival period, who seemed to provide a rough course for the Orcish clans to follow based on the wisdom of the ancestors and elemental spirits.

    One of the merits of a strong, centralized leadership is decisiveness and speed to act... but in a world rife with both political intrigue and the very real possibility of magical or spiritual corruption from any of a variety of sources, the flaws tend to outweigh the merits. WoW has played this trope over and over again - from Arthas to Kael'thas, strong leaders or leaders-to-be brought down by circumstances and forces not entirely in their control.
    But he is right. Horde withoug a Warchief is no longer a Horde. It's all system works on having the ultimate ruler, without it it will be just Alliance 2.0

  5. #245
    Herald of the Titans Desaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tempest Keep
    Posts
    2,806
    well... they're trying to cram the Alliance under Varian as the ultimate ruler

    They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle. Your gods are not your gods, outsider.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Before the corruption and Gul'dan, the Horde didn't have a centralized leadership... just the Elder Shamans occasionally meeting during a festival period, who seemed to provide a rough course for the Orcish clans to follow based on the wisdom of the ancestors and elemental spirits.
    I guess you didn't read Rise of the Horde, because it pretty much points to Ner'zhul, as highest ranking shaman, to be the leader of the Horde before the corruption. Sure other elder shaman met and discussed things that regarded the clans, but Ner'zhul had the final say.

    And wouldn't it be lame for the Alliance with their 'High King' to become like the Horde while a council would essentially make the Horde a copy of the Alliance? I don't fancy that switch. I don't like to be alienated from my faction.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramz View Post
    But he is right. Horde withoug a Warchief is no longer a Horde. It's all system works on having the ultimate ruler, without it it will be just Alliance 2.0
    I guess I just don't see the primary difference between the Horde and Alliance as their leadership structure, I think the culture and values of the Horde and Alliance are the main points on which they're different. The Horde primarily embraces the virtues of individual spirituality, honor, a relationship to the land as a greater whole, and personal valor - with only the Blood Elves and Forsaken serving as outliers to a generally more naturalistic morality and ethical structure. The Alliance tends to embrace mysticism, collective spirituality, technology, and more of an external political basis for its morality and ethics (with the Night Elves as the strongest outlier).

    I don't think the removal of the singular post of Warchief will change the Horde's essential nature, just as Varian ascending to be the sole ruler of the Alliance would really change its essential nature all that much. What really differentiates the Horde is its races and how they interact with one-another with the values and cultural elements they bring to the table.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 03:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    I guess you didn't read Rise of the Horde, because it pretty much points to Ner'zhul, as highest ranking shaman, to be the leader of the Horde before the corruption. Sure other elder shaman met and discussed things that regarded the clans, but Ner'zhul had the final say.

    And wouldn't it be lame for the Alliance with their 'High King' to become like the Horde while a council would essentially make the Horde a copy of the Alliance? I don't fancy that switch. I don't like to be alienated from my faction.
    I've read "Rise of the Horde" multiple times - and I disagree with your assessment. While Ner'zhul was highly respected as perhaps the most powerful of the Elder Shaman, he wasn't a ruler in any way. In fact, when he was attempting to bring cohesion to the clans into a proto-Horde against the Draenei he met with a good deal of resistance from clan chieftains who didn't like the notion of him summoning them like stewards. The clan chieftains considered themselves the rulers of their specific clans, and they couldn't be gainsaid until the structure itself actually changed with the ascension of Blackhand as Warchief.
     /l、
    (゚、 。 7
     l、 ~ヽ
     じしf_, )ノ <-- I am a proud Death Knight.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezarus View Post
    well... they're trying to cram the Alliance under Varian as the ultimate ruler
    From what the devs have clarified, his position is one of a military leader only, making the 'high king' title rather silly and over glorified.

  9. #249
    They should resurrect Gul'Dan and have him take over the horde

  10. #250
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    2,258
    I think it would be awesome if all the big players had a role in taking him out..but then at the end anduin runs up to try and purify him sensing the darkness and then SMASHES fear breaker into his stomach expelling the sha that was corrupting him and leaving him gravely wounded but purified!

  11. #251
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Behind You
    Posts
    5,993
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    From what the devs have clarified, his position is one of a military leader only, making the 'high king' title rather silly and over glorified.
    Kinda like how the Allied Powers needed to have "central authority" during WW1

    If you have every nation in an alliance doing their own seperate, half assed things, you wont accomplish as much

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 05:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    but then at the end anduin runs up to try and purify him sensing the darkness and then SMASHES fear breaker into his stomach expelling the sha that was corrupting him and leaving him gravely wounded but purified!
    Anduin kinda strikes me as someone who wldnt even harm a fly, much less a person
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Majiinx View Post
    They should resurrect Gul'Dan and have him take over the horde
    I personally don't think we've seen the last of Gul'dan, despite his physical death in the Tomb of Sargeras and people carrying around his Fel-infused skull like a paperweight. When we finally get down to fighting the Burning Legion across the scattered worlds in the Twisting Nether, I think we'll encounter him in some form or another - possibly not even as an enemy, or at least not directly as one.
     /l、
    (゚、 。 7
     l、 ~ヽ
     じしf_, )ノ <-- I am a proud Death Knight.

  13. #253
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    2,258
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Kinda like how the Allied Powers needed to have "central authority" during WW1

    If you have every nation in an alliance doing their own seperate, half assed things, you wont accomplish as much

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 05:24 PM ----------


    Anduin kinda strikes me as someone who wldnt even harm a fly, much less a person
    but in this case it would not be the person but the corruption / darkness he would be attcking... since he jumped on th epath of the light all gogogo uber priest band wagon.. I'm sure he would have no problems dealign a blow to darkness!

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    I think it would be awesome if all the big players had a role in taking him out..but then at the end anduin runs up to try and purify him sensing the darkness and then SMASHES fear breaker into his stomach expelling the sha that was corrupting him and leaving him gravely wounded but purified!
    You know what would be even more awesome?

    Should Anduin fail hard and get smacked by sharp part of Gorehowl.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    again, why do people think saurfang cares.

    his son is dead, hes not gonna come into orgrimmar and run for warchief of the year guys
    Though I can't speak on what his motives necessarily are. I don't quite get where you get the idea that his son's death absolutely ruined him, turning him into a shell of the orc he once was. Sure a good deal of grieving was in order, but I'd imagine that he's a little more resolute than that. The Lich King, the guy who actually did the killing and raising of his son, is quite long dead. There is barely anything left to take his apparent "anger" out on. Especially after all this time.

    Being sad and grieving the memory of his son is one thing, but being an absolutely broken man is a whole other.

  16. #256
    Scarab Lord Arrashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Box
    Posts
    4,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    You know what would be even more awesome?

    Should Anduin fail hard and get smacked by sharp part of Gorehowl.
    You are getting soft i see. Anduin for all the crimes he commited against good writing deserves to be dismembered, skinned alive and then drowned in salted lemon-juice. Oh and add the fact that his unyelding faith in "holy" light prevents him from dying. Sucks for him i guess.

  17. #257
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Mostly harmless
    Posts
    9,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    thats.. actually.. not a bad idea when you think.

    ok, he's had no association with garrosh, but chen is very much a token good guy, infact probably the most neutral themed good guy in mists.

    and if he gave the final blow to Garrosh, the other characters wouldn't need to wash there hands of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishmad View Post
    Cairne's spirit should kill him. *.*
    I like both of these ideas. Though it could be made simple that the players killed them or after the sha took control of him Garrosh was not truly alive and that he died then.....I can see see blizzard pulling that off.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Garrosh probably won't be killed. Metzen hinted at more story with him after MoP, and that we would all get through this together (meaning also the people who actually like him). So how are we getting through this together if one side is told to suck it? He'll find a compromise. Sha/Y'Shaarj corruption and redemption incoming. You will defeat him, but he will live. The true enemy isn't Garrosh, but the Sha/Y'Shaarj.
    The true enemy was not Arthas, but the Lich King.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    You are getting soft i see. Anduin for all the crimes he commited against good writing deserves to be dismembered, skinned alive and then drowned in salted lemon-juice. Oh and add the fact that his unyelding faith in "holy" light prevents him from dying. Sucks for him i guess.
    I think Anduin basically enjoys a sinecure provided by Velen's prophecy in terms of the story, he can't actually die for the foreseeable future. But I do agree with your position as I think Anduin is one of those characters that outwardly seems too perfect (a lot like Thrall, really). He's in need of some real development.
     /l、
    (゚、 。 7
     l、 ~ヽ
     じしf_, )ノ <-- I am a proud Death Knight.

  20. #260
    Scarab Lord Arrashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Box
    Posts
    4,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I think Anduin basically enjoys a sinecure provided by Velen's prophecy in terms of the story, he can't actually die for the foreseeable future. But I do agree with your position as I think Anduin is one of those characters that outwardly seems too perfect (a lot like Thrall, really). He's in need of some real development.
    Immortality does not equal pain immunity. That can be exploited in many delightful ways. In fact someone like yours truly could make anduin wish he could die.

    I mean lets be honest, anduin is aiming for me'danesque levels of mary sueness. He is such a bad character he basically kicks your immersion in a nutsack and leave it lying on the ground. Quest where you babysit him in kaarsang is biggest spit in face horde players had to suffer.
    Last edited by Arrashi; 2013-04-24 at 08:56 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •