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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Rendia's Avatar
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    How does "Socialized Healthcare" Compare to "Privatized Healthcare"?

    Asked this within another thread and only got a few responses, so I thought I'd start a new thread to make it the focus.

    So I am curious, and since the subject a hot topic on these forums as of late, I have no reason not to ask it here.

    In the countries that have socialized state run healthcare, how much do you pay for things like prescriptions? Lab work? Hospital stays? ER visits?

    The average US for these (generally) with health insurance:

    Prescriptions: $10 - $30 (Generic to Name Brand, if covered) or up to THOUSANDS of dollars (if not covered)

    Lab Work (blood tests, x-rays, etc.) $30 - $50

    Hospital stays: 10% - 50%

    ER visits: $50 - $100 + 20% - 50% of the cost of procedures

    What's it like in other countries where healthcare is socialized?
    "There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you." -Mazer Rackham - Ender's Game Orson Scott Card

  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rendia View Post
    Asked this within another thread and only got a few responses, so I thought I'd start a new thread to make it the focus.

    So I am curious, and since the subject a hot topic on these forums as of late, I have no reason not to ask it here.

    In the countries that have socialized state run healthcare, how much do you pay for things like prescriptions? Lab work? Hospital stays? ER visits?

    The average US for these (generally) with health insurance:

    Prescriptions: $10 - $30 (Generic to Name Brand, if covered) or up to THOUSANDS of dollars (if not covered)

    Lab Work (blood tests, x-rays, etc.) $30 - $50

    Hospital stays: 10% - 50%

    ER visits: $50 - $100 + 20% - 50% of the cost of procedures

    What's it like in other countries where healthcare is socialized?
    Prescriptions: Very little, £5 to £10 mostly.

    Lab Work (blood tests, x-rays, etc.) Free

    Hospital stays: Free

    ER visits: Free

    Dental treatment is not free but is very cheap, £50 for a root canal but you may need to wait a while on a waiting list, emergency treatment such as toothpain is usually same day or day after.

    Vision and hearing: Free but NHS glasses look really shit, most buy their own.

  3. #3
    High Overlord cakin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Prescriptions: Very little, £5 to £10 mostly.

    Lab Work (blood tests, x-rays, etc.) Free

    Hospital stays: Free

    ER visits: Free

    Dental treatment is not free but is very cheap, £50 for a root canal but you may need to wait a while on a waiting list, emergency treatment such as toothpain is usually same day or day after.

    Vision and hearing: Free but NHS glasses look really shit, most buy their own.
    Whats your contribution amount from your check? Just curious?

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    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Prescriptions: Very little, £5 to £10 mostly.

    Lab Work (blood tests, x-rays, etc.) Free

    Hospital stays: Free

    ER visits: Free

    Dental treatment is not free but is very cheap, £50 for a root canal but you may need to wait a while on a waiting list, emergency treatment such as toothpain is usually same day or day after.

    Vision and hearing: Free but NHS glasses look really shit, most buy their own.
    Can't recall if we pay for prescriptions, but think its about the same otherwise. Also we don't file any paperwork before.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

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    Immortal Dezerte's Avatar
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    My numbers might be a bit off since I'm having to convert SEK to US dollar;

    Prescriptions: $10-$30, until you reach a certain point called (roughly translated): high-cost-protection, which means you pay a maximum of $330 per year, and any further prescription is then free.

    Lab work: Blood work is free, x-ray cost $20~ thereabouts.

    Doctor visits: $10-$30, with cost protections in place here as well, I believe the maximum is $120 per year.

    Don't know about the rest, maybe some other Swede could fill in the blanks.
    Last edited by Dezerte; 2013-04-22 at 03:15 PM.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
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  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cakin View Post
    Whats your contribution amount from your check? Just curious?
    I am in a higher tax bracket so I think it's 40%, not 100% sure to be honest, It comes out of my wages automatically.

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    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cakin View Post
    Whats your contribution amount from your check? Just curious?
    We pay around 35-50% or so in taxes in Denmark, but it also goes to alot of other things. Also you don't have to worry about having the money for those things.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

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    High Overlord cakin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    I am in a higher tax bracket so I think it's 40%, not 100% sure to be honest, It comes out of my wages automatically.
    So the out of sight, out of mind mentality.

    You mentioned the bracket you're in, do you know what the top bracket pays? Roughly.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer JfmC's Avatar
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    I can't give you any prices, the only thing I can tell you is that socialized healthcare does not require profit for its managers and shareholders.
    Thread:Will we ever create A.I?
    So I just watched Her and it gave me a deep thought. Will man ever create an artificial consciousness or is it impossible. Anyone have any ideas?
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  10. #10
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cakin View Post
    So the out of sight, out of mind mentality.

    You mentioned the bracket you're in, do you know what the top bracket pays? Roughly.
    I think 45% is the highest bracket, for that you need to earn over £130K+ I think, I am not an expert in this field so may be wrong.

  11. #11
    The US pays the highest prices for healthcare, regardless of its funding. It is grossly inefficient. This has been proven by numerous studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    I think 45% is the highest bracket, for that you need to earn over £130K+ I think, I am not an expert in this field so may be wrong.
    45% @ GBP 150K+ from 6 April 2013.

    This does not take into account standard income personal allowances and note that it is a marginal tax rate. That is, it only applies on the part of your income AFTER the threshold.
    Last edited by squeeze; 2013-04-22 at 03:29 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    I think 45% is the highest bracket, for that you need to earn over £130K+ I think, I am not an expert in this field so may be wrong.
    correct. also the 40% bracket equates to income tax not NI contributions.

    Ni contributions are..

    If you're employed you pay Class 1 National Insurance contributions. The rates are:
    •if you earn more than £149 a week and up to £797 a week, you pay 12 per cent of the amount you earn between £149 and £797
    •if you earn more than £797 a week, you also pay 2 per cent of all your earnings over £797

    Figures are for UK.

    Its these NI contributions that cover all the above Rich mentioned so anyone earning around the £40k mark will pay about 12-15% of their wage in NI (cba to do actual figures) BUT.. this NI also covers benefits if you lose your job too so we get a lot of bang for our buck.

    free is also subjective too. we count it as free as we don't really pay anything to it.. but we have already paid.. But its why there is so much debate and heated arguments over those evil "benefit migrants" lol.. why anyone would voluntarily move to the UK does astound me a bit
    Last edited by Tsubodia; 2013-04-22 at 03:29 PM.

  13. #13
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    No idea tbf, I was at the clinic for the first time in years last week but I have not been billed yet, wanted to get my right ear checked, thought it worked really well, pro staff, got checked out by 1 nurse and 2 different doctors. No problems.

    Never need medications etc either. So I got no clue about the costs for that either.

    Not a really helpfull post I know! ;P
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Rendia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squeeze View Post
    The US pays the highest prices for healthcare, regardless of its funding. It is grossly inefficient. This has been proven by numerous studies.
    I know this. I am asking for out of pocket expenses. And not your monthly premium. Just simple service fees.
    "There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you." -Mazer Rackham - Ender's Game Orson Scott Card

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    Immortal Dezerte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackmoves View Post
    No idea tbf, I was at the clinic for the first time in years last week but I have not been billed yet, wanted to get my right ear checked, thought it worked really well, pro staff, got checked out by 1 nurse and 2 different doctors. No problems.

    Never need medications etc either. So I got no clue about the costs for that either.

    Not a really helpfull post I know! ;P
    Those bills can take a long ass time to arrive in the mail, several weeks if not more.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  16. #16
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Prescriptions: Very little, £5 to £10 mostly.

    Lab Work (blood tests, x-rays, etc.) Free

    Hospital stays: Free

    ER visits: Free

    Dental treatment is not free but is very cheap, £50 for a root canal but you may need to wait a while on a waiting list, emergency treatment such as toothpain is usually same day or day after.

    Vision and hearing: Free but NHS glasses look really shit, most buy their own.
    We have a "behavior or rebate book" or what ever you wanna call it, in Germany for dental. Every time you go to the dentist for a check up, you get it stamped. You are asked to go for regular checkups to prevent rather unnecessary treatments and higher costs. If you maintain the book properly you will pay between nothing and just a small percentage for dental treatment. However, if you fail to maintain it, then you can end up with a high percentage of the additional costs. Because then it's entirely your own fault for having your teeth rotting away.

    Eye care, yeah the free frames are often horrendous looking. Or fancy stuff like self tinting glasses, that costs extra. Everything else, pretty much the same.

    The most significant part however is the handling of sick days. That's where the USA is like in the dark ages still. Americans can consider themselves lucky to get paid 5 days total a year. Most of the time they don't get paid anything when they are sick. Sick at home = income loss.
    That part alone is worth every cent on health insurance taken out of the pay check every month in Europe.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  17. #17
    Cost of care is a different issue then source of insurance. In a fully socialized healthcare system, doctors work for the state. The problem in the US is that health insurance and care is a for profit industry. So the insurance companies have a vested interest in charging as much as they can, while paying out as little as they can. So they negotiate deals with healthcare providers for lower rates under threat of not allowing their clients to go to that hospital etc. So to defer the lower profits, the hospitals etc raise prices elsewhere. There is also a major problem with doctors prescribing unneeded or ineffective treatments because that's how they get paid.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendia View Post
    I know this. I am asking for out of pocket expenses. And not your monthly premium. Just simple service fees.
    None.

    Other than
    - subsidized prescription charges if you fall outside the free categories,
    - subsidized dentistry if you fall outside the free categories,
    - subsidized eye tests if you fall outside the free categories,
    - subsidized/reimbursements for travel expenses,
    and other random things like wigs if you fall outside the free categories.

    That's just the UK. Most welfare systems in Western Europe are even more heavily subsidized (especially France), but they pay more in tax.
    Last edited by squeeze; 2013-04-22 at 03:43 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible View Post
    We pay around 35-50% or so in taxes in Denmark, but it also goes to alot of other things. Also you don't have to worry about having the money for those things.
    Damn that's high lol

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Damn that's high lol
    Take the average tax rate in the US. Then add all the things you have to pay for here that you get from your taxes in Denmark.

    Starts to look like a pretty good deal imo.
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    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
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