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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Don't make the mistake of thinking those things are "free". Somebody is paying for it.
    From a certain perspective, they are free. An American pays 20 % more than him in tax for govenment health care, and most recieve nothing back. He pays less, and gets healthcare for the money. That is "free" from the American viewpoint, where you have to pay more money for no service.

  2. #222
    Our system is horrible. People that work pay around 10 euro a month for healthcare and around 2 euro when they need to see a doctor. The general doctors have limited number of "medical paths" per month and have to be careful on who they use them. Stay in the hospitals is co-funded. Operational procedures are co-funded. ER is free. Dental is horribly underfunded.

    I had an accident 1 month ago. My General practitioner is in my home town 200 km away and when I twisted my ankle I had to pay for everything as if i wasn't ensured because I had no Health Card. Check from an orthopedist, X-ray, pills and salves cost me 60 euro. If I had my Health Card and I had gone to my GP it would have cost me half.

    The National Health Fund doesn't do a good job.

  3. #223
    Stood in the Fire RyokuchaMidori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Our system is horrible. People that work pay around 10 euro a month for healthcare and around 2 euro when they need to see a doctor. The general doctors have limited number of "medical paths" per month and have to be careful on who they use them. Stay in the hospitals is co-funded. Operational procedures are co-funded. ER is free. Dental is horribly underfunded.

    I had an accident 1 month ago. My General practitioner is in my home town 200 km away and when I twisted my ankle I had to pay for everything as if i wasn't ensured because I had no Health Card. Check from an orthopedist, X-ray, pills and salves cost me 60 euro. If I had my Health Card and I had gone to my GP it would have cost me half.

    The National Health Fund doesn't do a good job.
    What country are you from ?
    "Skill, as the world of warcraft goes, is only in question between equals in pvp power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

    Thucydides : " The Melian dialogue".

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by RyokuchaMidori View Post
    What country are you from ?
    If I remember correctly Bulgaria.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Except there was no Russian Invasion into Crimea.
    Not like Putin acknowledged it on national tv..

  5. #225
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Take the average tax rate in the US. Then add all the things you have to pay for here that you get from your taxes in Denmark.

    Starts to look like a pretty good deal imo.
    Yeah, that's my view on it, too. Sweden sounds like goddamned Paradise when you do that.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  6. #226
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Retailer View Post
    From a certain perspective, they are free. An American pays 20 % more than him in tax for govenment health care, and most recieve nothing back. He pays less, and gets healthcare for the money. That is "free" from the American viewpoint, where you have to pay more money for no service.
    What American is paying 20% more than a Brit for government healthcare? Where are these numbers coming from?

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    What American is paying 20% more than a Brit for government healthcare? Where are these numbers coming from?
    http://www.nbcnews.com/business/coun...th-care-618241

  8. #228
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    That doesn't prove that every American is spending 20% more on public healthcare than the British. What Americans spend on public healthcare varies greatly, depending on tax bracket and many other variables. There is no way to make such a broad statement.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    That doesn't prove that every American is spending 20% more on public healthcare than the British. What Americans spend on public healthcare varies greatly, depending on tax bracket and many other variables. There is no way to make such a broad statement.
    I take it you don't know what 'per capita' means?

  10. #230
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I take it you don't know what 'per capita' means?
    Grim Retailers post does not include the phrase "per capita". He stated that an American pays more than 20% more for public healthcare than a British person does. There is no way to quantify that. It's pure speculation.

    Even the article you posted doesn't show a 20% discrepancy. In fact, the article you linked doesn't even include any information on how much Great Britain spends on healthcare in comparison to the USA. It even concedes that the vast majority of that spending isn't even public.

  11. #231
    In Japan one of the reasons why healthcare is far less expensive is because it is actually regulated unlike the U.S. There is a well defined framework on what health care providers can charge for services and prescriptions. In the U.S. if you get picked up by an ambulance, depending on what hospital they take you to your costs can vary drastically. Basically they get to charge you whatever the hell they want to. And it isn't the doctors and nurses making the money. "Socialized Healthcare" is great, but it has to be done on top of healthcare reform otherwise the crooks stay crooks and the taxpayers are paying for it.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Grim Retailers post does not include the phrase "per capita". He stated that an American pays more than 20% more for public healthcare than a British person does. There is no way to quantify that. It's pure speculation.

    Even the article you posted doesn't show a 20% discrepancy. In fact, the article you linked doesn't even include any information on how much Great Britain spends on healthcare in comparison to the USA. It even concedes that the vast majority of that spending isn't even public.
    Oh lord. The US Government spends an average (for a western nation) amount per citizen on healthcare, and the people get little to no benefit because we also spend private money on health insurance.

    That list goes from over 7k (US) to 4K (France) per person. The UK isn't on that list, which means... that a US citizen spends more than 20% more than anyone in the UK.

  13. #233
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Oh lord. The US Government spends an average (for a western nation) amount per citizen on healthcare, and the people get little to no benefit because we also spend private money on health insurance.

    That list goes from over 7k (US) to 4K (France) per person. The UK isn't on that list, which means... that a US citizen spends more than 20% more than anyone in the UK.
    But only 47.7% of the figure given for US spending is public spending. Less than half of all spending on healthcare in the USA comes from the government. So then let's look at what the actual amount of public spending is:

    47.7% of 7'960 = 3'796.92 per person

    The United Kingdom spend $3'268 per person in 2010. (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...countries.html)

    That's not a 20% difference.

    And even it were it doesn't speak to the point that was being made, that Americans are charged 20% more in public health tax than Brits, which is absolute nonsense because there is no way to quantify that statement, as there are so many different variables in the American tax system as it related to public health spending vs. the British system.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    But only 47.7% of the figure given for US spending is public spending. Less than half of all spending on healthcare in the USA comes from the government. So then let's look at what the actual amount of public spending is:

    47% of 7'960 = 3'796.92 per person

    The United Kingdom spend $3'268 per person in 2010. (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...countries.html)

    That's not a 20% difference.

    And even it were it doesn't speak to the point that was being made, that Americans are charged 20% more in public health tax than Brits, which is absolute nonsense because there is no way to quantify that statement, as there are so many different variables in the American tax system as it related to public health spending vs. the British system.
    You don't understand do you. Brits don't pay for medical insurance. Americans do. Americans also pay MORE than brits out of their taxes for healthcare, that they see no benefit from.

    Using your link, Americans are paying more than DOUBLE what the brits are paying.

  15. #235
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Cooking Meth in the UK is purely recreational.
    Dammit I had a serious response to this thread all ready to go, and then you and rich just made me bark out loud with laughter.
    ...


    Errr. Yeah anyway, Social medicare is decent. mmmk.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  16. #236
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    You don't understand do you. Brits don't pay for medical insurance. Americans do. Americans also pay MORE than brits out of their taxes for healthcare, that they see no benefit from.

    Using your link, Americans are paying more than DOUBLE what the brits are paying.
    You are just choosing to ignore facts. Only 47.7% of the figure given is public spending in America. 100% of it is public spending in Britain.

    And that doesn't even matter, it's not even the point.

    The point is that Grim Retailer said that Americans pay 20% more in public health tax than do Brits. That has absolutely nothing to do with what the total amount of spending per person is.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    You are just choosing to ignore facts. Only 47.7% of the figure given is public spending in America. 100% of it is public spending in Britain.

    And that doesn't even matter, it's not even the point.

    The point is that Grim Retailer said that Americans pay 20% more in public health tax than do Brits. That has absolutely nothing to do with what the total amount of spending per person is.
    And the rest is private spending, aka Health Insurance. We already pay enough through taxes to fund a Socialized Medicine system, and we see no benefit from it what so ever. To get medical care, the average American pays more than double what the average UK citizen pays. Be it through taxes or purchasing health insurance.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Grim Retailers post does not include the phrase "per capita". He stated that an American pays more than 20% more for public healthcare than a British person does. There is no way to quantify that. It's pure speculation.

    Even the article you posted doesn't show a 20% discrepancy. In fact, the article you linked doesn't even include any information on how much Great Britain spends on healthcare in comparison to the USA. It even concedes that the vast majority of that spending isn't even public.
    Americans as a group are represented by the average American. Or median, if you prefer. If I state that an American is wealthier than a Liberian, this is broadly correct, even if the ruling elite of Liberia consists of a small number of far wealthier individuals than the average American.

    Now, there is a field of economics called "Health Care Economics". Where speicalist economists spend time quantifying just that sort of thing.I don't know where the notion that "There is no way to quantify that" comes from?

    Now, if you want to compare spending in the US with spending in the UK, table 2 here is pretty good.Note that US 2009 public spending is 3795 $ per person per year. The UKs is 2935. A difference of 26 %.

    You can also briely skim this, which gives a quick overview of the financial situation of the US healthcare system. As the report says:

    "However, the overall level of health spending in the United States is so high that public (i.e. government)
    spending on health per capita is still greater than in all other OECD countries, except Norway and the
    Netherlands."

  19. #239
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    And the rest is private spending, aka Health Insurance. We already pay enough through taxes to fund a Socialized Medicine system, and we see no benefit from it what so ever. To get medical care, the average American pays more than double what the average UK citizen pays. Be it through taxes or purchasing health insurance.
    Ok...but that still doesn't prove that I'm paying 20% more in tax for somebody else's healthcare than people in England are. I know the average American pays about $19.50 every 2 weeks for federal medicare/medicaid, and that's assuming a salary above GNI (escalating of course). I would be absolutely beholden to find out that is 20% higher than what somebody making a comparable wage in England is paying.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    The point is that Grim Retailer said that Americans pay 20% more in public health tax than do Brits. That has absolutely nothing to do with what the total amount of spending per person is.
    No, I said "in tax". Not in a public health tax. If Americans paid an earmarked public health tax, that would make it horrifyingly clear to the voters how much americans pay for government health care. So I don't see one of those instituted any time soon. Americans pay taxes, as do Brits. From that pool of money, the government pays for public health care. In the UK that was 2935 $ in 2009, roughly 3000 today. And in the US, that was $ 3795 per person.

    The first table I linked even shows out-of-pocket and private spending as separate columns. I don't suppose anyone here is clever enough to paste it?

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