It's not Nostalgia.

[khalltusk]

First let me say that just because a game is old does not mean it is excused to dwindle. EvE online is an example that supports this point. It is a very old game that has not declined in subscriptions. Next, I would like to point out two observations. Game development companies have been caught in the past employing individuals to frequent social mediums with the intent to push specific opinions. I am merely stating a fact; I am not suggesting anything. The second observation I would like to make can be found at the following address; users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

With that out of the way; here's my opinion. If a product that costs the same as another is expected to be considered equal to if not better than it then it too should deliver, among other things, an equal amount of content. The original World of Warcraft cost roughly the same as Mists of Pandaria (retail allowed for variation). With the classic purchase came at least five time as many dungeons, zones, quests, items, spells, and so on. It came with more musical scores, more voice acted phrases, more spell sound effects. It came with more spell animations, more model animations, more textures. Even the number of subscribers at the end of its cycle is larger than what MoP will be at the end of its. Not only that, unlike today, the subscriptions were growing at a steady rate. They are now declining. More of everything; and when installed it took less than 3 GB.

In every quantifiable aspect the 2004-2006 version is superior. The only thing left is subjectivity. Some will jump up and shout that even though there's less today it's still better because it has different features, such as the cross realm zones Blizzard addressed during an AmA on Reddit prior to the release of MoP.

You did fail to account development time. Wow was in development prior to warcraft 3 release. The amount of content on release would be higher than mop. For me MoP brought a lot of new content, Pet battles, New raids, New dungeons, A new race, lots of voice acted content (more than we had in vanilla btw) some new items and zones and new game modes (scenarios).

True it would not be as much content as Vanilla wow considering the sheer time scale we have had for both games development.

Wow vanilla had - 23 dungeons - Maraudon and DM added later not on release. Most of vanillas raids were patched in not on release. We had 7 raids I do believe among 3 tiers (2.5 being a tier so 4 technically)

Mop has few dungeons but has several raids already 4 in total. With a 5th to come. 2 shorter than Vanilla true but the quality of said raids is FAR higher. Both in terms of presentation and mechanics. The themes of which are subjective of course. (I love AQ20/40 still). Dungeon wise we have 10. (I won't count their heroic versions even the reworked old ones)

[Tomana]

Is it better off? If I had asked someone, I would have learned sooner. But instead I figured it out on my own, and did it differently the next time. (Thats immersion for me, you know, not being on rails everywhere I go and in everything I do.)

I thought you were meaning when they took many/all group quests and elites out of the game, which is why I brought up Dragonblight which had a lot.

No, they changed vanilla leveling in patch 2.3 ("Gods of Zul'Aman") by introducing new quests in Dustwallow March, reducing the XP and making a lot of elites non-elite.
ZOMG, BC catered to the CASUALS!!!11!!oneone!! XDD

Slightly more seriously, there is nothing wrong into removing difficult parts in "non-current" leveling. Because, well, more often than not, people leveling in the previous expansion levels will be solo, as there won't be as much alts. Consequently, it is important to accomodate their level experience to be more doable solo.

[Deleted]

And no, this does not mean "casual destroyed the game", this means "game was made accessible to a very large portion of people wanting to play it".

Accessible? WoW was turned into a movie.

You really think people in life enjoy being crushed when they fail at something?

Failure is a part of life. It shows you where you need to improve.

Also the "let them win" guy is one of my best friends with down syndrome who can't play the game at full capacity. Thank you for that, just because he gets rewarded due to the fact he can't understand the entire game.

Thanks.

You just don't get it.

So what if the game changed?

So what if it rewards everyone now?

It shouldn't impact you in the slightest.

If you want to actually achieve something, do Normal/Heroic raids.

It shouldn't CHANGE how you play the game in the slightest, because since Vanilla it hasn't changed how I play either.

I play the way I want, I welcome change or I reject it, and I move past it.

You're simply coming off as conceited, and any reasoning anyone uses with you is placed upon deafened ears.

LFR has become the norm. That has changed the game for me because hardly anyone wants to make guilds anymore because it's not worth the effort.

Blizzard won't make guild raiding more rewarding because it would increase LFR que times.

[MoanaLisa]

One of the striking notions that I've read in this generally interesting thread has been that after spending eight years in the game it has somehow failed because it's not as immersive, fresh, exciting and new as it was eight years ago.

That's rubbish of course and is the pure distilled essence of nostalgia. So it goes. If anyone thinks this is not rubbish please provide examples of video games that are just as immersive, fresh, etc. as they were eight years ago. I'd like to play them.

[Vintersol]

saving time = better game.... riiiiiiiiiiiiight you never played then so hush

Saving time today? ^^

It's a paradoxon. So much things are less time consuming now, but still the players acting like they have no time to play. huehuehuehuehuehuehue

Time is, and was never an issue but a good excuse if you don't want judge yourself that you are too lazy for organized raids or knowledge about your class / the game. And about content and "availability". Look at ulduar and how it works after TotC came out. Players walked straight forward to TotC instead of clearing Ulduar. Because it's not the content they wanna see instead of having easy accessible epics.

[Huehuecoyotl]

The bold part is where it becomes pure nostalgia. The entire post is dripping with it.

You are literally comparing the content of the full retail release of the base game with what is just an expansion. The cost has nothing to do with it.
Of course the full game release is going to have more zones, dungeons, quests, items, spells, music, voice acted phrases is debatable I guess considering the VA in MoP, and spell sound effects. It's two damn continents worth of content and had 8 whole races plus all the classes in one go. An expansion adds just a new class or race (or both) and one continent.

Your comparison is ridiculous.

why is that comparison ridiculous? are you saying that the effort they put in to the original game, when they had no income and were basically betting their own cash, would always be less than the effort they put into an expansion where they have 9 million paying customers?

and yet they still charge the same for the expansion that they did for the original game?

if that is true, it sounds like its pretty lazy on Blizzards part.

[Deleted]

One of the striking notions that I've read in this generally interesting thread has been that after spending eight years in the game it has somehow failed because it's not as immersive, fresh, exciting and new as it was eight years ago.

That's rubbish of course and is the pure distilled essence of nostalgia. So it goes. If anyone thinks this is not rubbish please provide examples of video games that are just as immersive, fresh, etc. as they were eight years ago. I'd like to play them.

WoW wasn't even good when it was new really. But it was another world that you could enter with your friends that made it so good.

Now that's gone. It has been replaced with a single player MMO.

[Huehuecoyotl]

One of the striking notions that I've read in this generally interesting thread has been that after spending eight years in the game it has somehow failed because it's not as immersive, fresh, exciting and new as it was eight years ago.

That's rubbish of course and is the pure distilled essence of nostalgia. So it goes. If anyone thinks this is not rubbish please provide examples of video games that are just as immersive, fresh, etc. as they were eight years ago. I'd like to play them.

i dont think its about being fresh and immersive. for me, at least, one of the reasons i left was because of what Blizzard has done to the outside world. levelling used to be challenging, it used to be a place you could meet other players and team up to take on challenges. it used to be a place where you could choose the path you took as you levelled. these days it has no challenge, its all on rails. there is nothing that would ever cause you to team up with someone.

are there games from 8 years ago that i could go back to and find fresh? probably not. are there games i could find challenging and immersive? damn straight. anyone played baldurs gate recently? what Blizzard have done to a large portion of their game is to turn it from challenging and immersive, to something that people desperately just want to get through. because its getting in the way of what Blizzard seem to think is the real game.

[Duronos]

One of the striking notions that I've read in this generally interesting thread has been that after spending eight years in the game it has somehow failed because it's not as immersive, fresh, exciting and new as it was eight years ago.

That's rubbish of course and is the pure distilled essence of nostalgia. So it goes. If anyone thinks this is not rubbish please provide examples of video games that are just as immersive, fresh, etc. as they were eight years ago. I'd like to play them.

Play a Zelda game, though I'm sure you probably have already. Those always seem to get me every time.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Maybe I'm not doing so well at explaining what I mean (it happens) but you are expecting the original WoW release (a huge MMO) to be smaller than something that is only an addition to it. That is silly to me.

the original game cost £30. an expansion cost £30. why would i expect the expansion to be anything less than the SAME amount of content as the original game? that is the part that sounds silly, to me. if its going to be 1/5 of the size, it should be 1/5 of the cost. or less, bearing in mind that they have a guaranteed player base that has "bought in" to the game already.

[Tomana]

Accessible? WoW was turned into a movie.

What on earth are you talking about?

[Duronos]

What on earth are you talking about?

I think what he was saying was a bit exaggerated but I think what he's getting at are the cut scenes. There are more of them but I never really saw too huge of an issue with them because they are practically the same thing as sitting through a normally played narrative before a quest is given usually but with better shit happening.

[Tomana]

I think what he was saying was a bit exaggerated but I think what he's getting at are the cut scenes. There are more of them but I never really saw too huge of an issue with them because they are practically the same thing as sitting through a normally played narrative before a quest is given usually but with better shit happening.

Frankly, MOP cutscenes are far less annoying than Cata scenes. Uldum was downright atrocious from that point of view.

[Duronos]

Frankly, MOP cutscenes are far less annoying than Cata scenes. Uldum was downright atrocious from that point of view.

I'm not saying they're bad though Cata's were a bit meh.

[MOEEEE]

Somethings, changed for the better. Other for the worse, that's simply how it is. Me personally, love the new layout, new races, the way of raiding. But PvP, nah.

[Deleted]

people can genuinely prefer vanilla or tbc or wolk without being called liar, wrong and nostalgia pink goggles, can't they?

What if i say i really prefer the old duke nukem 3D from 3D realms than the recent duke nukem forever from gearbox. Is it me being nostalgic and wrong?

sure they can, but the problem is that some of them claim that it is a fact and not just their opinion and won't even listen to someone who has a different opinion than them

now if there was a thread that said: "hey i like classic wow better than mop, but that's just my opinion, how about you?" instead of "classic wow was better than mop and that's a fact!" i'm sure we would see less comments saying that the op is being nostalgic

[Lilija]

sure they can, but the problem is that some of them claim that it is a fact and not just their opinion and won't even listen to someone who has a different opinion than them

now if there was a thread that said: "hey i like classic wow better than mop, but that's just my opinion, how about you?" instead of "classic wow was better than mop and that's a fact!" i'm sure we would see less comments saying that the op is being nostalgic

Very true

[Deleted]

I spent about a month of playing around the clock on a "cough" private "cough" realm, during which time I leveled a hunter to level 60. It was the most fun I've had on a char in awhile. I met some really cool people with whom I leveled up, we did dungeons together, overall atmosphere was very fun. Meeting elite npcs was also a refreshing experience after dumbed down npc's past 2.3. Once I hit 60 I quit shortly afterwards due to lack of 60 players, but it's time I wouldn't take back if I could, it was extremely fun, especially STV. Doing nesingwary quests there and then final elite npcs in group with alot of wipes and then getting that awsome feeling of accomplishment.
So no, it's not nostaliga.

[Lilija]

I spent about a month of playing around the clock on a "cough" private "cough" realm, during which time I leveled a hunter to level 60. It was the most fun I've had on a char in awhile. I met some really cool people with whom I leveled up, we did dungeons together, overall atmosphere was very fun. Meeting elite npcs was also a refreshing experience after dumbed down npc's past 2.3. Once I hit 60 I quit shortly afterwards due to lack of 60 players, but it's time I wouldn't take back if I could, it was extremely fun, especially STV. Doing nesingwary quests there and then final elite npcs in group with alot of wipes and then getting that awsome feeling of accomplishment.
So no, it's not nostaliga.

Private server is not how Vanilla really was. Furthermore it's a small community which is also totally different from how Vanilla was.

[Hubbl3]

I spent about a month of playing around the clock on a "cough" private "cough" realm, during which time I leveled a hunter to level 60. It was the most fun I've had on a char in awhile. I met some really cool people with whom I leveled up, we did dungeons together, overall atmosphere was very fun. Meeting elite npcs was also a refreshing experience after dumbed down npc's past 2.3. Once I hit 60 I quit shortly afterwards due to lack of 60 players, but it's time I wouldn't take back if I could, it was extremely fun, especially STV. Doing nesingwary quests there and then final elite npcs in group with alot of wipes and then getting that awsome feeling of accomplishment.
So no, it's not nostaliga.

Did you play vanilla before or was this your first experience? Everything I remember about vanilla leveling was "OMFG this looks soo awesome!" "I know this place from Warcraft 1/2/3" "This world is so huge!" - basically everything you get when playing a game first time. I don't remember any "hard leveling" content. There where mobs that died fast (non-elite) and mobs that died not so fast, but where still soloable (most elite), and bosses that need a heal (few elites, like andorhal). And stuff everybody could solo, but not druids, because we had no interrupts and every mob their had a self heal.

About STV I remember ganking. A. Lot. Of. Ganking. (which was fun)