Patch 2.1 Customization - Cathars & more

[Deleted]

I love the idea of the collection system (have 14 toons) and will be pumping out dye kits by the end of today. The rest doesn't directly influence me but I'd have liked to see more bug fixes included.

I recently spent 37 million credits on the Czerka Crate-o-matic (transforms you into a miniature Tardis) and I pray this patch won't bind it to me as right now I can resell it at will...but 'All Cartel Market Toy items are now Bind on Use. Previously, some of these items did not bind to the player' hopefully just applies to CM toys and not non-CM ones like the Heroic banner and Czerka Crate.

Can't wait for patch 2.2 and some bloody content!

[Deleted]

I was talking about body/ name changes, not about face cosmetics... however, going through the patchnotes...



/facepalm

I doubt that there isn't a thread already but if there isn't, I've got to create one. There is so much they can do but this is just again another stupid decision.... frankly a fucking stupid decision.

/settomad

Yup thats BW/EA for you, just trying to sap up as much extra cash as they can, the kings of nickle and diming their subscriber base.

Its just really bad they're using "Our Cartel shop is just for customisation, not P2W" but that doesn't mean putting ALL customisable options on that darn thing,

[Psychlon]

I love the idea of the collection system (have 14 toons) and will be pumping out dye kits by the end of today. The rest doesn't directly influence me but I'd have liked to see more bug fixes included.

I recently spent 37 million credits on the Czerka Crate-o-matic (transforms you into a miniature Tardis) and I pray this patch won't bind it to me as right now I can resell it at will...but 'All Cartel Market Toy items are now Bind on Use. Previously, some of these items did not bind to the player' hopefully just applies to CM toys and not non-CM ones like the Heroic banner and Czerka Crate.

Can't wait for patch 2.2 and some bloody content!

37 million to be disguised as a.... box? ok

[Redblade]

Just because I happened to stumble across it, from EA's latest financial report.

We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every six weeks, helping drive subscribers and free to play consumers to the game.

[Kelimbror]

That's paying once. You earn it through play, then you pay to gain access to it.

Nope, sorry. Time is a currency in the MMO world. You effectively pay for it twice. So either you are arguing semantics or ...idk..you know exactly what I meant when I said it.

Looking through how other games handle it though...

Most of these games you said the currency cap was removed...so...yeah. How is this even close to 'not terrible'?

LOTRO/DDO I need to check on, I'll update as soon as both games are fully updated on my computer so I can peak at the cash shops.

Already said spending any money with LotRO at all (going to their premium status) removes pretty much all harsh restrictions. It would be similar if in SWTOR preferred status granted you a currency cap of 500 million.

It could be like AoC and not let you access it at all, but I'd much prefer something like DCUO since that's a pretty flexible set of price points.

You'd prefer a game where you have to pay to access money you've already earned, when you have games that let you access it for free. Ok. Starting tomorrow I demand that you pay me $10 everytime you use your debit card. I will give you my paypal account since this is a preferable system to you.

[Deleted]

I love the idea of the collection system (have 14 toons) and will be pumping out dye kits by the end of today. The rest doesn't directly influence me but I'd have liked to see more bug fixes included.

I recently spent 37 million credits on the Czerka Crate-o-matic (transforms you into a miniature Tardis) and I pray this patch won't bind it to me as right now I can resell it at will...but 'All Cartel Market Toy items are now Bind on Use. Previously, some of these items did not bind to the player' hopefully just applies to CM toys and not non-CM ones like the Heroic banner and Czerka Crate.

Can't wait for patch 2.2 and some bloody content!

I recently spent 37 million credits on the Czerka Crate-o-matic (transforms you into a miniature Tardis)

37 million credits

[catcommando]

^Yeah...at the 37 million credits. I'm too lazy to post a gif.

[Padwarle]

Just wanted to post that the launcher is up for downloading 2.1 if you want a head start.

Edit:

2) If it really is for a 'miniature TARDIS' it's worth all the credits SWTOR could ever have.

Indeed. :P

[Kelimbror]

^Yeah...at the 37 million credits. I'm too lazy to post a gif.

1) You don't even want to know how many total credits he has. It deserves a shocked face gif.

2) If it really is for a 'miniature TARDIS' it's worth all the credits SWTOR could ever have.

[WarpedAcorn]

Nope, sorry. Time is a currency in the MMO world. You effectively pay for it twice. So either you are arguing semantics or ...idk..you know exactly what I meant when I said it.

I have to agree with Edge in this instance. You are only paying once. That's like saying the comic I just bought last night charged me twice...once for the currency I used and once for the time it took me to earn that currency.

[Parrin]

I have to agree with Edge in this instance. You are only paying once. That's like saying the comic I just bought last night charged me twice...once for the currency I used and once for the time it took me to earn that currency.

Plus the time it took you to read the comic book. That's like a third charge. :P

[Kelimbror]

I have to agree with Edge in this instance. You are only paying once. That's like saying the comic I just bought last night charged me twice...once for the currency I used and once for the time it took me to earn that currency.

That metaphor isn't even close to accurate.

In a free to play game, you have multiple currencies. Time is always a currency in MMOs, regardless of payment model, but emphasized in F2P. It's why you have the discussion of grinding vs buying. I could get all economic and use the technically appropriate term (opportunity cost) but then we'd be arguing semantics which I don't think you realize you're doing by disagreeing. I'm using easier to understand terms in regards to the conversation.

You have already spent time to earn credits. This system applies to the games regardless of the payment model. In this instance, escrow allows you to continue turning your time into credits even if you can't access them. While this isn't a fair system by any means, technically your time is still being translated into an even ratio of your credits. Nothing diminishes the amount that you earn with your time, only your finite purchasing power.

Now there is a system that allows you to access some of your escrow at an additional cost incurred. You already had the cost of your time, now you have a tangible cost of real money. It doesn't directly increase your purchasing power at any time, it doesn't enhance the value of your time:credits. The game already charged you time for the credits, now they are charging you cash for your credits on top of that time.

While we have similar systems in place on some financial institutions/concepts, I don't think those are appropriate nor a service to their customers either. In terms of the value (inside the game) compared to real world metaphors, we can disregard things like preloaded debit cards that charge $1 each time you use it. Instead we could magnify a bank's fees into a similar situation.

For example: You work at your job (cost = time). That job then turns around and deposits your paychecks into the bank (= credits). The bank allows you to spend $100 before you are cut off. (credit cap) However, in order to access any of your remaining money you have to pay them more money. Every single time. (new escrow cartel purchases).

I'm not sure how I even have to explain this to anyone as it is paying to access your currency. It's a very simple concept to realize you have already earned something, but to use it you have to earn it again. It's a factual statement that can't be distorted. It literally happens.
--------------------------------
With that explanation out of the way, I wonder if these will be able to be sold on the GTN. If that is the case, expect this to become a hot commodity. Haven't looked into the actual values of where these would balance in terms of CC : Credits ratio. Seems like a quick and cheap sell for a stipend.

[WarpedAcorn]

I'm not even sure you can count "time" as a commodity in a game genre designed specifically to waste a large amount of free time.

For example: You work at your job (cost = time). That job then turns around and deposits your paychecks into the bank (= credits). The bank allows you to spend $100 before you are cut off. (credit cap) However, in order to access any of your remaining money you have to pay them more money. Every single time. (new escrow cartel purchases).

Just a funny note, PayPal does/did this. I stopped using them specifically because after selling off a bunch of old collectibles I couldn't use that money to buy Christmas gifts for my friends and family with that money as they had placed a limit on how much of my money I could spend...unless of course I upgraded my membership which cost money.

I'm not sure how I even have to explain this to anyone as it is paying to access your currency. It's a very simple concept to realize you have already earned something, but to use it you have to earn it again. It's a factual statement that can't be distorted. It literally happens.

I'm not disagreeing with that statement. You earned in-game credits and you are being charged to access them. Credit caps are common in F2P models, and having a way to access that cash is a nice option to have. You don't HAVE to buy the access if you don't need, and it won't affect your gameplay anymore than it has since the game went F2P.

I really don't see the issue with this. Once again, as we have stated many other times, there are so many things to get angry about in SWTOR...this right here seems like griping just to gripe.

[Kelimbror]

this right here seems like griping just to gripe.

No, this is actually one of the larger missteps they've ever had, but thank you for your attempt to invalidate my opinion.

I wish I could place people in an alternate reality where they had to do this in a more impacting scenario to realize the ethics behind this practice is abhorrent. But since it seems the only people left talking about this are somehow being lulled into thinking all of this money grabbing and customer manipulation is ok, maybe I need to leave all of these forums and go back to WoW where at least I know what my money is giving me.

Between this sort of reasoning and people defending Neverwinter's cash shop, I feel like the entire gaming community has lost their minds. Time to pack up to my hermit shangrila.

[Redblade]

I'm not even sure you can count "time" as a commodity in a game genre designed specifically to waste a large amount of free time.

You can, especially when it's "free to play" where you can purchase time saving conveniences.

[WarpedAcorn]

I wish I could place people in an alternate reality where they had to do this in a more impacting scenario to realize the ethics behind this practice is abhorrent. But since it seems the only people left talking about this are somehow being lulled into thinking all of this money grabbing and customer manipulation is ok, maybe I need to leave all of these forums and go back to WoW where at least I know what my money is giving me.

So you're saying that by presenting an option to allow players to access their escrow funds is horribly unethical?

Just so I'm clear, you're okay with there actually being a credit limit on F2P players too right?

You can, especially when it's "free to play" where you can purchase time saving conveniences.

Can you elaborate a little bit? I'm not sure I follow you.

[Kelimbror]

So you're saying that by presenting an option to allow players to access their escrow funds is horribly unethical?

Access =/= Charging for access. Credit caps are always explained away by needing to prevent gold sellers, hacked accounts, abuse, etc. The only other reason would be to needlessly punish/extort customers.

So with that in mind, having escrow is fine. Charging for escrow is not fine...regardless of what games do or don't do it. What would be preferable as a compromise to both prevent abuse of accounts and let people have their credits is to have a limit on how many (free)escrow withdrawals they can have in any period of time and also increasing the cap in general.

Another solution would be the ability to purchase permanent unlocks for your credits. So there are multiple avenues to pursue unless your real intention is to just extort more cash from customers.

Just so I'm clear, you're okay with there actually being a credit limit on F2P players too right?

See above.

[WarpedAcorn]

Thanks Kitty. I see what you're saying. I don't agree that purchasing escrow transfers constitutes the crossing of some ethical line, but I see what you're getting at.

[Forsedar]

Whats the point of having escrow if they're not going to charge you for it? Just having it exist wouldn't be any different than if they just bumped up the cap or removed it altogether. Charging you to access a chunk of it gives it a reason to even exist.

[Deleted]

Are the credits not a by-product of time spent having fun playing the game? Even for players who focus their game time on massing a fortune of in game currency it still must be fun doing that, playing the AH/GTN, gathering crafting etc.
I know that if I ever got to the point where my game time felt like I was at work earning in the game currency I would quit playing.

2) If it really is for a 'miniature TARDIS' it's worth all the credits SWTOR could ever have.

I agree, but it is no where near like a TARDIS