I never understood why people hated BRD and LBRS/UBRS from vanilla. They had awesome atmosphere, they actually felt like an enemy stronghold. I'm not a borderline invalid so I never really had too much of an issue navigating them, either.
I never understood why people hated BRD and LBRS/UBRS from vanilla. They had awesome atmosphere, they actually felt like an enemy stronghold. I'm not a borderline invalid so I never really had too much of an issue navigating them, either.
You're getting exactly what you deserve.
The adventure part of wow pretty much died when everybody started flying around.
i always wanted a hemet nesingwary raid ;/
" In a Society like this table, a state of equilibrium, once one makes the first move, everyone must follow! In every era, this World has been operating by this napkin principle. And the one who ‘takes the napkin first’ must be someone who is respected by all. It’s not that anyone can fulfill this role… Those that are despotic or unworthy will be scorned. And those are the ‘losers"
It's not about Kung-Fu pandas. Raids just don't have that epic feel of accomplishment anymore, and I don't know why. I'll tell you one thing, it's not the lore it's just that raiding is missing a key element.
---------- Post added 2013-04-30 at 12:22 AM ----------
I love the sarcasm in this, like please marry me.
Sweeter than yo mama's apple pie.
I got that same feeling when running through Utgarde Pinnacle/Keep and Drak'Tharon Keep/Gun'drak.
The difference between Utgarde and BRD/BRS, however, is one I don't GET BLOODY LOST AS HELL IN THEM WITHIN A CONVOLUTED MAZE! Not to mention I can do the entire dungeon in 20+ minutes the first time I enter. You can't do that in BRD/BRS (Well, not sure about today - but back in Vanilla you sure couldn't!)
Sure, BRD/BRS had some very unique designs - what with broken platforms and what-not... but hell, you couldn't figure out SQUAT where to go the first time you came into them! (Well, I and most new people I know couldn't! :P). It's even WORSE when you're running back and have to play catch-up with your party. >_<
I'd do challenge modes if I were in a raiding guild able to give me four other competent people with which to do them.
I don't really agree that dungeons are definitively less "atmospheric" and "adventurous."
The BC dungeons were some of the most rote, reused formats ever. You basically had nine whole dungeons that were all more or less aesthetic lifts of one another, with the same tired mobs populating each one. Most of the dungeons had no story beyond "bad guys exist here, kill them." The only thing BC dungeons had going for them was their enormity, in that they interacted with vertical space well. MoP dungeons and raids have a LOT of vertical space, but don't utilize it very well (ever look at how high the Mogu'shan palace ceilings are?)
Another thing that perhaps serves to "sterilize" MoP instances are the presence of invisible walls EVERYWHERE. Every railing you could possibly jump on, every pillar base, every pile of rubble. Invisible walled off. I understand that this helps prevent exploits (specifically in challenge modes,) but it makes the environments feel so... cold, and even more linear.
In addition, I also agree with the sentiment that heroic dungeons shouldn't exist in their current iteration. There's nothing "heroic" about them; they present no challenge and exist only as shallow catch-up modes. I thought Cataclysm heroics were a perfect model of what heroic dungeons should be. They should allow gearing up for LFR through regular max level dungeons, and present heroic dungeons as a loot alternative to LFR when getting into real raiding in the future.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
A lot of the game has lost its adventure, not just pve bosses.
Keep in mind with Vanilla it semi made sense that nothing was tied together, the entire idea was that they were taking players to places they had seen or heard about in the original Warcraft games ( for the most part). At least with Vanilla though there were quests in the outside world that tied into the instances to give you an idea of what was going on.
TBC in my mind didn't all really tie into one thing, but the zones, instances, and quests within those zones did for the most part. The Raids tended to tie much more into an overall story, but if not they at least made sense in the zones they were in.
Wrath every instance at least tied into the zones, and most had some overall theme with the LK. The raids were a bit more all over the place, but once again they at least tied into what was going on in the outside world somewhat.
Cata while having this overall theme of the Twilight Hammer, isn't considered very good because at least as far as raids go, we felt like we were killing the same guys we killed 7 years earlier. I thought they did a far better job of tieing all of the heroics together though, although they didnt do nearly as good of a job tieing them into the outside world.
MoP actually did a good job of tieing the instances to the quests in the zones, but the raids story wise are kind of meh. Like many have said, we have a reason to be in HoF, but the people that should be helping you in there just can't be bothered I guess. I agree with everyone else on Terrace, I have zero idea what the deal is there. I mean sure we are trying to kill the Sha, but there is no story as too why he would go there, and this place being inside this mountain doesn't make a lick of sense either.
ToT is just another in that same vein. Sure we have a reason to go get Lei Shen, but as for the rest, there is nothing to really tie into anything ( ok the trolls I guess do) even the island they made to set it all up lol
r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
i will never forgive you for this blizzard.
"...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."
I might agree with the title but I'm not sure of the explanation. Variety is good, fighting the same kind of theme for too long wouldn't be interested. Usually it's the gamers fault for not following or paying attention to the lore, however, there are plenty of examples where you may not have paid attention to the lore but still experienced the epicness of an encounter. The problem is that things like 'adventure' have been ripped from the game and 'atmosphere' has no feeling when the moment seems unimportant. The game has become so easy that all bosses are inferior to you so they carry no sense of threat or memorable image.
Dungeons have been bad since BC. Vanilla was the only time dungeons have real sense of mystery and adventure to them. BC,WotLK,Cata,MoP's dungeons all serves the same purpose which is quick currency. This is the direction Blizz is taking with dungeon which is fucking suck imo. As for raid I enjoy MoP's raids much more than WotLk and Cata. ToT is one of the best raid WoW has ever had. Most guilds who has completed it seem to agree. Far better than anything in WotLK and Cata except Ulduar which is arguable.
Last edited by Wildmoon; 2013-04-30 at 07:54 AM.
MoP has been the most lore-immersed I've felt with the game, all around.
Wrath I felt built up to the final boss battle amazingly well -- Cataclysm tied in the level 1-60 experience with the endgame experience ... MoP is building up to the final boss as well as having deep lore implications for the entire game universe. As far as the boss buildup I'd say it's doing worse than Wrath, but better than Cata / BC / Vanilla ... and as far as general lore I'd say it's beating out Cata/Wrath and is probably about tied with BC (slight edge to MoP here, imo -- of course all my points being debatable) and only behind Vanilla (in as far as the first introduction to WoW is simply going to feel the most immersive -- no single new continent will ever feel as immersive as the entire original Vanilla world ... unless a new xpac introduces a whole new world, or multiple continents, such as if we travel off Azeroth again...)
I am the one who knocks ... because I need your permission to enter.
ToT is easily one of the worst raids I've had the misfortune of stepping into. It's HORRIBLE tuned for normals, it's far to long with far to much trash in between with the sole purpose of slowing your raid before the next boss, the bosses themselves (when their not buggy as fuck) are overloaded with mechanics that in some instances just obscure each other (durumu is an excellent example) and overall I would say it's a poorly done and rushed endeavor.
Lore was lost soon after Cata, not because they started making new lore but because everything following had no "threat". Deathwing was a never ending bukkake line thanks to LFR, he was likely the most killed end boss of any raid ever and while being supposedly Azeroth's biggest "threat". Who can seem powerful or memorable if they are guaranteed to be defeated - by anyone who tries.