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  1. #241
    - s9 mmr bug at the start
    - ice lance
    - points required for weapons
    - s9 mmr abuse/wintraders/boost sells
    - s10 mmr fuck up reset
    - s10 where noone ever bothered to play anymore because of s10 mmr fuck up reset
    - s11 triple dps
    - next expansion will fix it resto druid
    - resto sham/lock

    That's what I remember from cataclysm, it was shit.

  2. #242
    I actually find both Cata AND Mop are a huge drop in standards from Blizzard. Sure they still had/have the Blizz sheen but what lies underneath is not much in way of substance. I hope the next expansion is better. Still had very enjoyable days in both but the mojo wore off for me far faster than it did in previous expansions.

  3. #243
    Field Marshal Azureqt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Every poll and thread here where expansions are compared, Cata gets worst opinions or close to it.

    Im really interested why ppl didnt like Cata.

    For me, Cata wasnt best expansion (wotlk and tbc are), but still, I cant say it was bad. It had great 5-man heroics (loved DM prenerf), we got old world flying, rewamp of old world zones.
    Only bad thing were raids, DS in particular, maybe cos it lasted too long.

    What do you think?

    Nearly ALL the PvE content was recycled... I can list it for you...

    Dragon Soul (Raid)
    Firelands (Raid)
    Blackwing Lair (Raid)

    Deadmines (5 Man)
    Shadowfang Keep (5 Man)
    Zul'Farrak (LOL 5 Man)
    Zul'Aman (LOL 5 Man)
    End Time (5 man)
    Hour of Twilight (5 man)

    And I personally felt PvP was completely ignored in every aspect, even with reasonable feedback from the better players of the community.

    It was an okay expansion at best, but it was a VERY lazy expansion. That Worgen city is so awesome... they need to turn it into something.

  4. #244
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I don't think holding a negative opinion is necessary "bashing." Most people would be the former, but I think very few are the latter.

    Anyway, my main beef with Cataclysm was the shortage of content. The expansion added a lot of new features like transmog, guild support, reforging, old world flying, etc, and I think the old zones revamp was phenomenal... but when it came time to actual stuff to do in-game, we had the least of it we've had since Classic. It's the only time in WoW's history I ever logged in, realised I didn't have anything really to do. I found myself logging in for the sole purpose chatting in guild. Firelands was cool, but it needed a sister raid or more bosses. Dragonsoul was also too short, and cleared too quick (at least Firelands was more challenging) and, in my opinion, was way too dull. Abyssal Maw scrapped, War of the Ancients as a raid was scrapped, etc. Even old fallbacks like leveling an alt were less desirable because the extreme linearity of Cata zones made repeating them really tedious.

    I think the expansion brought a lot of good stuff to the table in the aforementioned list, but it just didn't do a whole lot to make the game compelling to actually play.
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  5. #245
    Because we were given a 7 boss raid and then an 8 boss raid that were supposed to last 1.5 years.

    Compare than to MoP where the game has only been out around 8 months and we have had a 16 and a 13 boss tier.

    Basically all you did in Cata was log on and clear either Firelands or DS on tuesday then log off for an entire week unless you felt like leveling an alt. A couple hours of content a week is not how an MMORPG should be designed.


    This doesn't even include the other issues of the amazing amount of recycled content. ZA / ZG/ DM / Shadowfang for 5 mans. In raids reusing Onyxia / Nefarian / Rag. Reusing models / areas in Firelands / DS / end time etc.
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  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Azureqt View Post
    Nearly ALL the PvE content was recycled... I can list it for you...

    Dragon Soul (Raid)
    Firelands (Raid)
    Blackwing Lair (Raid)

    Deadmines (5 Man)
    Shadowfang Keep (5 Man)
    Zul'Farrak (LOL 5 Man)
    Zul'Aman (LOL 5 Man)
    End Time (5 man)
    Hour of Twilight (5 man)

    And I personally felt PvP was completely ignored in every aspect, even with reasonable feedback from the better players of the community.

    It was an okay expansion at best, but it was a VERY lazy expansion. That Worgen city is so awesome... they need to turn it into something.
    What exactly was recycled about Firelands, aside from the NAME of the last boss? None of the other bosses were recycles, none of the fights were recycles, even Ragnaros had a different model and a completely different fight. So, please, explain what was recycled about Firelands.

    Do the same with Blackwing Descent, because nothing in there, except two names, were recycled.

    While we're at it, go ahead and explain what Zul'Farrak is doing on the list. I don't recall it being changed during Cataclysm -- certainly not as new/updated content.

    You pointed out Deadmines and SFK... while failing to note that they were specifically requested by the playerbase as heroic updates. Is it lazy to give players what they ask for?

    Zul'Aman, I will accept. It was an unnecessary recycle. Dragon Soul, I will partially accept, as they did recycle a lot of art assets (the fights and mechanics, however, were not any more recycled than any other raid).

    What's wrong with End Time and Hour of Twilight? Oh, that they took place in previously visited areas? I suppose I can accept that for Hour of Twilight, even though it didn't particularly feel like it was an old area. I cannot, however, accept it for End Time. It's an instance that takes place in the future, meant to show us what becomes of the world as a result of Deathwing. It makes sense to take us to places that we've already been, eh?

    So, you're basically bitching about them reusing 3 old NAMES (though the models and fights are all updated/new), reusing old areas (even though it made sense to do so from a storyline perspective), and giving us heroic versions of instances... that we REQUESTED.

    Doesn't really make much sense to me.

  7. #247
    I wish we could go back to cata. Wow was a lot more chill and easier.

  8. #248
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azureqt View Post
    Nearly ALL the PvE content was recycled... I can list it for you...

    Dragon Soul (Raid)
    Firelands (Raid)
    Blackwing Lair (Raid)

    Deadmines (5 Man)
    Shadowfang Keep (5 Man)
    Zul'Farrak (LOL 5 Man)
    Zul'Aman (LOL 5 Man)
    End Time (5 man)
    Hour of Twilight (5 man)
    We're using "recyled" pretty loosely here. ZA is really the only one that belongs on this list.

    Almost all the others were minimal reuse - a single name, lore figure, location, or map. As far as actual gameplay, they were wildly different. Nothing about BWD was the same as BWL except that it took place in the same zone and the final boss was the same figure in lore (but the fight was radically different). SFK, Deadmines, ZG, etc - all of these were the same map but completely new mobs, bosses and lore. Dragonsoul and the CoT dungeons were only recycled in the sense that they took place in existing locations, but again, completely new in terms of functional playing. Firelands was all new except Rags, who again was a totally different fight than original Rags.

    I mean, I'm not going to laud the expansion as a pillar of effort, but at lot of these criticisms are using a way extreme definition of "recycled."
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  9. #249
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    You've seen "old timers" quit in every expansion. And DS might have seemed lazy, but it honestly wasn't, it made perfect sense storywise for it to take place the places it did.
    For the location, a bit, yes. However, in terms of story, the majority of the fights came from, well, no where, and most were "stack and burn boss" sorta fights.

    For instance, lets take the previous raid, Firelands. We had a full zone dedicated to fending off the forces of Ragnaros. Hyjal was an excellent lead-up to Ragnaros himself. Heck, even the Throne of the Four Winds bosses had more background lore behind the bosses then DS did. For DS, the only 2 bosses that didn't come from nowhere was Deathwing, and even then, the fights themselves was repetitive and boring. No uber phase changing, no special mechanics, just stack, kill things, move up, stack, kill things, move up, or stack, kill things, move to next platform. DW exploding into a thousand tiny stars was pretty lame compared to, say, the LK ending. And there was the fact that, the entire DW fight wasn't us fighting deathwing, but a bunch of adds.

    Hrmm, also, lets take ICC. While you could replace Marrowgar, Valithria Dreamwalker, that she-lich, with any random generic mob and do fine, the Saurfang fight, Sindragosa fight, and, of course, the LK fight, AREN'T replaceable- if you removed these fights, you remove a lot from the lore/feel of ICC. For DS, you could replace any single boss with something else, and it wouldn't have made a difference.

    DS was crummy for 5 simple reasons : Extremely repetitive fight mechanics, Very poor lore on bosses, poorly done end-boss fight, being far too short, and being out for such a long time. ICC was out for longer, but was much better because A) The fights were many, varied, and diverse, B) there was a good amount of lore in ICC itself, and C) they made RS when ICC was beggining to flag out, thus giving players a wee bit of breather (Granted, it didn't last very long, maybe 3 lockouts, and its now forgotten, but a breather is a breather)
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  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    We're using "recyled" pretty loosely here. ZA is really the only one that belongs on this list.

    Almost all the others were minimal reuse - a single name, lore figure, location, or map. As far as actual gameplay, they were wildly different. Nothing about BWD was the same as BWL except that it took place in the same zone and the final boss was the same figure in lore (but the fight was radically different). SFK, Deadmines, ZG, etc - all of these were the same map but completely new mobs, bosses and lore. Dragonsoul and the CoT dungeons were only recycled in the sense that they took place in existing locations, but again, completely new in terms of functional playing. Firelands was all new except Rags, who again was a totally different fight than original Rags.

    I mean, I'm not going to laud the expansion as a pillar of effort, but at lot of these criticisms are using a way extreme definition of "recycled."
    I probably don't need to explain this to you, but the average person bitching about recycled content is so shallow that they cannot differentiate between Ragnaros in Molten Core and Ragnaros in Firelands. They see the same name and that's it for them, it's the same fight as far as they're concerned. Indeed, the whole instance becomes "recycled" just because that one name.

    I mean, look at how many people call the 6th fight in DS "Lootship 2.0," despite the fact that the difficulty is in no way comparable (lootship was thus named due to its ease, after all) and the mechanics are in no way comparable (you don't jump to the other ship, fight nothing but adds, and engage in vehicle combat). But it takes place on a flying ship, so it's "lootship 2.0!"

    Oh, and Morchok is recycled because some other mob used his model. Same with the second and third bosses. They're "recycles" because we've seen their model before. GENIUS!

    Quite frankly, every time I see a post like the one you quoted, I get a strong urge to flame so hard that I get banned. I've indulged before and I'm sure I will again. Either way, your average "recycled!" poster is nothing more than a complete moron and I really wish they'd find another game to play, because all they do is infect other players with their idiotic, unobjective opinions. They sow the seeds of hate and stupidity. And once they've done that, they abandon the thread and never explain themselves because, honestly, they can't.

  11. #251
    The Insane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azureqt View Post
    Nearly ALL the PvE content was recycled... I can list it for you...

    Dragon Soul (Raid)
    Firelands (Raid)
    Blackwing Lair (Raid)

    Deadmines (5 Man)
    Shadowfang Keep (5 Man)
    Zul'Farrak (LOL 5 Man)
    Zul'Aman (LOL 5 Man)
    End Time (5 man)
    Hour of Twilight (5 man)

    And I personally felt PvP was completely ignored in every aspect, even with reasonable feedback from the better players of the community.

    It was an okay expansion at best, but it was a VERY lazy expansion. That Worgen city is so awesome... they need to turn it into something.
    You might want to actually bother to learn what recycled means....

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  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    You might want to actually bother to learn what recycled means....
    Naxxramas (lvl 80) is the prime example of what '' Recycled content '' is.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    For the location, a bit, yes. However, in terms of story, the majority of the fights came from, well, no where, and most were "stack and burn boss" sorta fights.
    From nowhere?

    The first boss was an earth elemental. Deathwing is the Earth Warder and earth elementals are in his domain.

    The next two bosses are Old God minions, and, as we all know, Deathwing is Old God corrupted (aka, another one of their minions). We see their minions attacking the tower -- it's pretty clear that the Old Gods supplied them as aid for Deathwing's assault.

    Hagara might not initially appear to have any relation, but it should be pretty obvious that she's related to the Old God cultists (Twilight's Hammer?) in some way.

    Ultraxion was Deathwing's creation and was intended to be the harbinger of the end ("Hour of Twilight").

    Warmaster (or Warbringer, or whatever... I can't remember his name) was the leader of Deathwing's elite guard. Perfect sense, lore wise.

    So, really, the only boss that doesn't have an obvious fit is Hagara. The rest of them make perfect sense as far as lore goes.


    I'd also like to point out that very few fights were as simple as "stack and burn". Morchok heroic was a pretty movement/position heavy fight (even though it was easy). Bouncy Ball boss involved two groups stacked and then everyone repositioning/moving for a while. The other Old God boss involved both stacking and spreading, depending on which adds you killed. Hagara required somewhat strict positioning, none of which involved "stacking," with the only exception being non-runners during the lightning phase. Ultraxion was a Patchwerk style fight, so I can't really argue on that one. "Lootship 2.0" required regular HEAVY spreading, only stacking for one ability. Spine could work either way, so I'm going to count that one out. Madness involved regular spreading for tentacle crushes, stacking for AOEs, lots of movement. In other words, it was an all around fight.

    All of that was just off the top of my head. My point? You clearly don't remember the fights as well as you think you do. You don't remember the mechanics. And if you don't think the bosses made sense from a lore standpoint, then you didn't put any thought into them.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winkleslob View Post
    Naxxramas (lvl 80) is the prime example of what '' Recycled content '' is.
    I'd say that ZA (lvl 85) is honestly, it had the same mechanics, same bosses (just a reskinned Zul'jin honestly) and the same loot visuals, Naxx 80 at least had different looking gear hah (models, not different colours).

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  15. #255
    High Overlord Deshow's Avatar
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    This is because cata is the worst expansion of wow followed only by mop. It sucked the soul out of this game and it finally turned that dead beaten up horse full of tired cliqes into a pile of mush. It destroyed faith in nearly everyone. Even I and many hardcore warcraft fans began to doubt the game. There was a time when I was a proud defender of the game but now I just cannot do it anymore. It ruined the game and replaced the young to middle age hardcore player base with grannies(no really there were a few in my guild) and scene kids. Not to mention the oversimplification of talent trees and gameplay that it paved the way for. The entire expansion was pretty much designed for casual alt players who just wanted to collect them all. It also killed a lot of good servers, including mine. Now in order to pug and get the feel of actually playing in an mmo I have to pay 25 dollars for a server transfer. It just doesnt seem fair. Blizzard failed yet the customers have to pay the price.

  16. #256
    Herald of the Titans Ciddy's Avatar
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    I have mostly the same opinion as the OP. It's not that I didn't like Cataclysm, because I can honestly say I enjoyed it. It just doesn't rank up there with TBC or Wrath of the Lich King to me.

    I didn't like Dragon Soul that much though. Some of the encounters were cool the first few times I did them (Spine, Madness, etc), but that place got old REALLY fast.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Deshow View Post
    Now in order to pug and get the feel of actually playing in an mmo I have to pay 25 dollars for a server transfer. It just doesnt seem fair. Blizzard failed yet the customers have to pay the price.
    Or you could cross-realm raid. I do it on a pretty regular basis. The only raid you cannot do cross-realm is ToT and I get the feeling that you're probably not at that level anyway. So, instead of complaining that you can't do something, maybe go to openraid.us/.eu and realize that you can, in fact, do it?

  18. #258
    Horrible story that had horde bias...

  19. #259
    High Overlord Deshow's Avatar
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    I actually quit sometime around 4.4 the only thing that drew my interest is some rumours about the next expansion. I havnt even resubbed yet(on mop trail) but from what I see so far, its not looking to good. I didnt know you can cross realm raid now, but its irevelent. I was talking about the feel of the game. pre-cata i used to walk around sw or dalaran and it was packed, tradechat booming with jokes, fun and life. Having a lot of players present really gave the feel that your part of something bigger then yourself.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Every poll and thread here where expansions are compared, Cata gets worst opinions or close to it.

    Im really interested why ppl didnt like Cata.

    For me, Cata wasnt best expansion (wotlk and tbc are), but still, I cant say it was bad. It had great 5-man heroics (loved DM prenerf), we got old world flying, rewamp of old world zones.
    Only bad thing were raids, DS in particular, maybe cos it lasted too long.

    What do you think?
    Because it lacked a soul, pretty much. It felt like the last season of a TV show you loved in the beginning, but just got more blurier and blurier than the time came.
    It felt like it was this one desperate last attemt from Blizz side to keep everyone happy, and it failed just to hard.

    Cata was fun, in the beginning. But the raids werent. The social aspects of the game began falling apart when LFR drowed by, and when everyone kept leveling up their own guild to 25 so the majoroty of guilds were no longer a pack of friends and player enjoying the game together, than it was a random social, level up for perks guild.
    (is still many great and tho serious guilds out there, but you get the picture - right)

    Raids were torn out with the roots little by little, and the shared lockout for 25 and 10 player raids was just the last nail in the coffin. Because when we had 25 player raids, we still missed the 40 mans raids. It had something todo with working together as a team or a group to get that final boss down.

    And when this sort of game become something you can do totaly solo, just log in and que for a LFR - hope for some gear and then you done. Well then it become boring in the end. What more to stretch for?
    I dount the majority of the people do raid, but I think the majoroty of those who raid is the one who is willing to spend the most time and effort into the game aswell.

    Cata felt for me like a endless waiting line when we all were camping in Org/SW. Where everyone could just go get their epic gear anyways.
    That must have been a damn shame to the ones who was willing to spend much time before to get just that.

    I raided in Wrath, totaly stopped in Cata. And never dared myself into the grounds of raiding again, not even now in MOP.

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