Indie game developer strikes back at pirates

[Dasffion]

There ya go. So when will a law get passed where you will be locked of or fined just for lending a friend a game cause like I said in the end its the samething.

To prove a point I "got" MW3 from the internet and beat it take a wild guess how many times I payed for it on console..........once on ps3 and 2 times on xbox 360.

Because even tho I beat it on the PC I wanted the Achievements and to play online on the ps3/xbox 360.[COLOR="red"]

You really don't see a difference between loaning A friend or even a couple friends a game and it being available for thousands of people to download?

[Jtbrig7390]

You really don't see a difference between loaning A friend or even a couple friends a game and it being available for thousands of people to download?

The amount of people is different and that is the only difference.

If you had 30k friends and lend them your game would it be any different then posting your game on the net and 30k people downloading it.

And with the low quality of games that has been coming out over the years you would rather risk 60$ then to test it out yourself.

Look at aliens colonial marines.....game company's get pissed about people pirating games but yet still make shit games and try to milk the player base as much as they can look at EA and the mirco store in Dead Space 3 so what go's around comes around it is that simple.

[Arrowstormen]

People who are trying to defend piracy (because they're pirates themselves, pirate for pirates and pirates for pirate) are just wrong and should deal with that fact. Piracy is the same as stealing, crying about how expensive 60$ is for a game is pathetic, don't buy it then or wait for a sale, like Steam Summer Sale, where you can buy all these things for less than a good meal.

[Jtbrig7390]

People who are trying to defend piracy (because they're pirates themselves, pirate for pirates and pirates for pirate) are just wrong and should deal with that fact. Piracy is the same as stealing, crying about how expensive 60$ is for a game is pathetic, don't buy it then or wait for a sale, like Steam Summer Sale, where you can buy all these things for less than a good meal.

Ok then lending a friend a game is the same as stealing since its the same as piracy its just on a smaller scale.

so those who lend friends games should be fined for it.

If you steal a car and I stole a bag of chips both of us would be punished even tho mine is on a smaller scale then urs.

Anyone who bash's those who pirate games and have lend Friends/Family ect... games are hypocrit's for doing the same thing.

The scale may be smaller a few compared to many but its still the same thing.

[Lillpapps]

There is no evidence at all that companies lose money because of piracy. None what so ever.

[steveyboy]

I think part of the problem of piracy is the price of the games and some of the shit game makers have given us and expected £40 for it.

Some people though just don't want to pay for the game no matter what. It doesn't matter what drm is on the game, said people will still pirate it and will always have lame excuses for doing so such as "I was just trying it out to see if it was worth getting" whilst said game has a bloody demo on steam.

[pickley]

If you was a game company would your rather sell 7 million of a 60$ game or 24million of a 30$ game....

Cheaper the cost the more people who may/can buy it.

But they wont sell 24 million.... Honestly, the price of games wouldnt really factor into this that much. You would get MAYBE +1m tops

[Jtbrig7390]

But they wont sell 24 million....

ill quote myself to you since I already replyed to the same comment.

true so lets use some real numbers.

The new Tomb Raider sold at 3.5mil copy's 60$ a copy in the US and other nations at different price's now do you think that number would have 2x/3x if it was 30$ a copy I would think so and that means more people would be buying the DLC and therefor is more profit.

So if at 30$ a copy it 2x in sells it would have made the same amount as the 60$ and more people would have gotten the game. If it x3 as much that is more profit then what SquareEnix would have made at 60$ a copy.

That is not counting the amount extra they would make on the DLC even if only 3.5mil got the game at 30$ each.

Game company's want to hurt the used game sells there is only one really simple way to do it that is fair to the gamer.....sell your game cheaper

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 03:51 PM ----------

I think part of the problem of piracy is the price of the games and some of the shit game makers have given us and expected £40 for it.

Some people though just don't want to pay for the game no matter what. It doesn't matter what drm is on the game, said people will still pirate it and will always have lame excuses for doing so such as "I was just trying it out to see if it was worth getting" whilst said game has a bloody demo on steam.

I personally have pirate a game because of 2 main reason's

1) Tired of 60$ games being shit.
2) Don't trust game company's to make a decent game anymore.

If I like said game good chance ill buy it once its cheaper for my console. Like tomb raider I played 10mins of it on my computer and plan to get it once its on sell "right now it is" and I got the cash to buy it.

Lower the cost to 30$ I won't pirate anymore.

[pickley]

ill quote myself to you since I already replyed to the same comment.

I personally have pirate a game because of 2 main reason's

1) Tired of 60$ games being shit.
2) Don't trust game company's to make a decent game anymore.

If I like said game good chance ill buy it once its cheaper for my console. Like tomb raider I played 10mins of it on my computer and plan to get it once its on sell "right now it is" and I got the cash to buy it.

Lower the cost to 30$ I won't pirate anymore.

But it wont sell double the amount. Thats not how this industry works...

See, you are the reason for the $60 pricetag. People make up idiotic reasons why they have to pirate games, the developer loses money because people pirate. Prices stay the same/go up.

It costs a LOT of money to make a AAA game title nowadays, Square claimed they didnt even break even with tomb raider (And it sold over 3m IIRC).

[Kelimbror]

ill quote myself to you since I already replyed to the same comment.

The problem is that companies have just as little faith in consumers as we do in them sometimes. The cost of making games has inflated over the years and they do have people they are accountable to. Being publicly traded and all that jazz plays a larger part in how games are produced, marketed, and eventually distributed.

Indie games achieve success by following your method, but larger studios can't afford to take that risk let alone would they even be allowed to.

[Deleted]

Piracy leads to more sales. What developers and publishers are experiencing is the power of the internet, sharing of information to be precise. If they want to up sales then they have to bring down the internet so that people can't efficiently communicate to others just how shit their games truly are. Or they have to start making actual good games. That is the culprit in this drama.

People watch & read BETA reviews,gameplay footage and articles and decide whether or not to buy the game long before it's even released. Piracy gives these games and studios a second chance to prove themselves to a potential costumer. If their games fall in taste with this pirate/potential costumer than the chance is good he/she will buy a legit copy to support further game development from that studio.The only sale that a studio can count on is sales to their already established fanbase, those are the realistic potential sales they can count on.

A pirated copy was never a potential sale in the first place, but the pirate became a potential costumer the moment that game was pirated, that's a win-win scenario. Take Skyrim as an example. Do you really think that game would have become game of the year were it not for Oblivion and Skyrim being heavily pirated? And do you think Elder scroll online would have been so anticipated were it not for the success of Skyrim? No, it wouldn't have happened. The game industry have nothing to cry about, piracy is good for them.

However, piracy does actually harm other medias such as the television industry which rely almost entirely on view ratings. Many good shows have been canceled because of piracy and that is truly bad. But the television industry didn't cry, it adapted and began offering better alternatives than piracy, such as Netflix and PPV options. But that's a story for another time and thread.

[Jtbrig7390]

But it wont sell double the amount. Thats not how this industry works...

People will buy things if its cheaper that is a fact. so to say it won't sell double is false. now there is a chance it won't but there is a higher chance it will sell more copy's at 30$ then 60$ and that is more people who will buy the DLC when they come out with it.

This has nothing to do about how the industry works but how the consumer shops people like things cheap that is way 1$ store's make so much money. make the product cheaper people will buy it.

[zaxlor]

People who are trying to defend piracy (because they're pirates themselves, pirate for pirates and pirates for pirate) are just wrong and should deal with that fact. Piracy is the same as stealing, crying about how expensive 60$ is for a game is pathetic, don't buy it then or wait for a sale, like Steam Summer Sale, where you can buy all these things for less than a good meal.

You can't have it both ways.

You can't say pirates bitch about having to pay 60 bucks a game, but then ignore games studios adding in DLC, cutting content from the game to create DLC, creating games with collosal budgets (FF13 had apparantly over 300 staff. 300!), using bullshit marketing tactics (see Aliens) because they're not making enough money.

If the market is un-willing to pay x price for a product, then the market has decided that x needs to be lower. If that product can't be made for a profit if x is lowered, then the product dosn't get made and life goes on.

Why did Tombraider need multiplayer? Why did it need such "advanced" graphics? Why does it need to come out at 60 bucks, or £40 where I live? I ended up paying £25 for it from Amazon, since that's the price I was willing to pay. I had to wait about a month for the price to drop, but that's what it was worth to me. After playing it, i'd have prefered to pay about £15, but that's my opinion.

Yes, I could have waited another month, or even six, or even a year till it dropped that low. I didn't, I wanted to play it then, so I payed the early adopter "tax". If it'd released at £15 I wouldn't even have thought about buying it, i'd have snapped it right away. But it didn't. Square lost out on £15 from me right from the get go, from pricing their title too high. If Square goes bust because they can't sustain making £15 games then TOUGH LUCK. Boo hoo. That's capitilism for you.

Lower production costs, lower wages, add incentives to buy games. I'd imagine a lot of piracy is due to people either feeling entitled, or just hungry for more. They can't wait. I'm acusable for this, sure. Give me a way, to give my money to the developers that I feel is appropriate. If game developers will ONLY accept my £40 and nothing else, then that's their fault for not allowing me to pay them what I feel is appropriate for it. Does that justify taking it for free? No, not really. Will I take something for free if there's a very low chance of being caught or hardly any repreands? Yes I will!

If someone said to me "Zaxlor, if you ever pirate a game again, you won't ever be able to obtain internet access or use your PC", damn right i'd never download anything "illegally" again! Piracy, is not going away. There's never going to be an un-crackable DRM nor are there going to be cyber police smashing down your door and your gaming rig because you pirated Final Fantasy 26.

Gaming companys would be getting my money, by offering incentives (See my comments on Witcher 2, a game i've hardly played but brought sight unseen), offering subscription services and by offering me price models that I can afford. Untill that happens, continue to see games being pirated and money being "lost". But you can NOT keep saying to people "Suck it up, follow your morals, do what you're told" if other options are availble that by pass any kind of guilt that follows your consequences.

Untill I'm reading reports on Eurogamers of game developers having to go begging because Call of Duty 37 only sold 6 copies and 29 billion were pirated, the gaming industry is not the fault of the consumer, it's the fault of the publishers, developers and practices they follow.

[Arrowstormen]

Ok then lending a friend a game is the same as stealing since its the same as piracy its just on a smaller scale.

so those who lend friends games should be fined for it.

If you steal a car and I stole a bag of chips both of us would be punished even tho mine is on a smaller scale then urs.

Anyone who bash's those who pirate games and have lend Friends/Family ect... games are hypocrit's for doing the same thing.

The scale may be smaller a few compared to many but its still the same thing.

Your argument is flawed. To simplify what would otherwise take too long to completely cover, "file sharing" creates more copies of something, copies that shouldn't exist. You create unpaid copies of something and give them away, to never get the back or have any control of it. Libraries lend you books, which is almost the same thing, except lending between friends is much more controlled. The copy has been paid for, and there's nothing that says you're the only one that may consume the product you got, as long as you don't copy this copyrighted item and put them on the internet for everyone to get without paying for these additional copies.

Lending an existing copy of something is not the same as creating an infinite amount of them on the internet for everyone to keep forever and ever.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 05:56 PM ----------

There is no evidence at all that companies lose money because of piracy. None what so ever.

This is the dumbest comment ever. EVER.

There is no evidence that companies lose money when you don't pay for the things they have spent millions on? Uh, WHAT?

The profit of sales are made to cover the expenses of the game and the payment of people involved.

[pickley]

A pirated copy was never a potential sale in the first place, but the pirate became a potential costumer the moment that game was pirated, that's a win-win scenario. Take Skyrim as an example. Do you really think that game would have become game of the year were it not for Oblivion and Skyrim being heavily pirated? And do you think Elder scroll online would have been so anticipated were it not for the success of Skyrim? No, it wouldn't have happened. The game industry have nothing to cry about, piracy is good for them.

What the hell are you talking about? In what way is piracy good?

Developers make game.
Pirates steal and play game for free
Developers make 0 money from that pirate

How is that a win-win scenario?

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 03:57 PM ----------

People will buy things if its cheaper that is a fact. so to say it won't sell double is false. now there is a chance it won't but there is a higher chance it will sell more copy's at 30$ then 60$ and that is more people who will buy the DLC when they come out with it.

This has nothing to do about how the industry works but how the consumer shops people like things cheap that is way 1$ store's make so much money. make the product cheaper people will buy it.

But if they make the product cheaper, they need MORE people to buy it. What are you not getting?

If a $60 game that sold 3m copies didnt even break even.
a $30 game would need to sell at the very least 3-4 times as many copies within a short period (Because after a year or so prices decline again)

Its not good business

[Deleted]

stop selling games for 60$ duh stupid gaming companies and no one would even pirate a crappy facebook tycoon game lol so mission failed game dev tycoon...

movies take way more money to make than games do,yet they only cost like 10$ brand new for dvd...game industry is a joke

So I guess that makes stealing a Ferrari okay, because they are expensive.

[Jtbrig7390]

Your argument is flawed. To simplify what would otherwise take too long to completely cover, "file sharing" creates more copies of something, copies that shouldn't exist. You create unpaid copies of something and give them away, to never get the back or have any control of it. Libraries lend you books, which is almost the same thing, except lending between friends is much more controlled. The copy has been paid for, and there's nothing that says you're the only one that may consume the product you got, as long as you don't copy this copyrighted item and put them on the internet for everyone to get without paying for these additional copies.

Lending an existing copy of something is not the same as creating an infinite amount of them on the internet for everyone to keep forever and ever.

Wrong my Argument is not flawed as I already stated and proven its the samething.

I lend my friend a game he didn't pay for it and got to play/beat it without spending a dime.

Yes there is some difference's like Copy's and the amount of people but at its core its the same thing you are giving someone something they did not pay for therefor that is Pirating the game.

If you right now got a xbox 360 and I had every single game made for it and lend them or even gave them to you that is the same as if you downloaded said games from the internet.

Once more the only difference is the amount of people who get the game from the first person.

feel free to disagree but I'm sorry at its core its the same thing and that core is Person A giving Person B something they did not pay for.

[Deleted]

What the hell are you talking about? In what way is piracy good?

Developers make game.
Pirates steal and play game for free
Developers make 0 money from that pirate

How is that a win-win scenario?

Because the pirate was never intending to buy the game in the first place, he is therefor not a potential costumer prior to playing the game. As the pirate is playing this game he deemed not worthy of buying he might actually start liking it and buy + support the studio that made the game. That is +1 potential costumer, not -1 sale.

[llDemonll]

This is the dumbest comment ever. EVER.

There is no evidence that companies lose money when you don't pay for the things they have spent millions on? Uh, WHAT?

The profit of sales are made to cover the expenses of the game and the payment of people involved.

A better way to explain what he was trying to say:

I'll use CoD as my example, because I'm not a CoD player so I will never be buying a CoD game. The company is not going to make any money off me as a customer because I have 0 intent of ever buying the game. Say I decide to pirate the game and see what it's about. Ok, great, now I have a copy of the game, but the company still has not lost money off of me as a customer because I never would have bought the game to begin with. Say I end up enjoying the game and plan to buy the next release. Great! Now the company has made money off of me as a customer (once I buy the next release) and it started with me pirating a game. If I'd never pirated the game, I never would have known how much I enjoyed it and the company would have continued to not make money off me as a customer

[Arrowstormen]

You can't have it both ways.
*blah blah*

Don't buy stuff you don't like. Don't buy the DLC. Stealing a TV because you disagree with the price tag is as mindnumbing stupid as saying "I don't like to pay for stuff."

The market disagrees with price? YOU disagree, and YOU steal a product. When you don't think something is worth the amount that's asked for, you DON'T buy the game, and if enough people don't buy the game, then yes, the prices on games will decrease. However, this is not the case. The only reason people pirate games is because they're poor and it's easy to steal, and they're able to cheat themselves into thinking they're being good little rebels against the unfair companies and their business practices.