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  1. #61
    I see with sadness this game slowly dying in the hardcore part. I have been realy hardcore some time back but i felt generally the same as the exodus guy.... the commitment level is not compatible anymore with todays' extremely competitive society in "RL". It almoust feels like RL is so hard outside that we don't have the energy anymore to be so serious in yet another thing in this turn a computer game.


    For me the only way to go in Gamming atm is casual play being it in wow or any other game realy. The problem in wow is that casual content is atm extremely boring, easy, repetitive and I absolutely hate dailies wich seems to be the core of casual content atm in this game.

    - 5 mens died
    - dailies are boring as hell to me
    - LFR takes ages and its realy realy easy
    - Normal content guilds are dying out in most servers, 25 men normal guilds are rare as hell
    - Scenarios feel to me as dumbed downed content

    I honestly most of the time don't feel like logging because there is not a thing that calls me to the game when i'm deciding what to do in an evening free. I can honestly say most of the time i have to kill time i rather watch youtube videos than log into wow.


    This game is for me dead. Hardcore is not compatible anymore with my life, casual is extremely boring and too easy atm, there is not much where to run except level another alt, wich i'm already burned out aswell.... So yeah, last month recurring subscription i'm afraid :\ if it would be free from subs i could reconsider but i cant justify spending money each month to play 1 hour a week...

    Real sad, i realy loved this game, lore, gameplay, etc for over 9 years. Time to let it go with fond memories.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexsa View Post
    I play prot pally as my main, for years. My OS has been holy since second spec became an option. Now, with Mists I find that things need more damage to take down. Sure, I do pull large packs and still do, and slowly dps them down.

    However, things like the trove runs, and Brawler's guild, especially Brawler's guild, requires a lot of dps. Doing Brawler's guild as a prot is just wasting yours and others time. Sure you can get through certain bosses in there with prot, but it's not possible for them all.

    Having the ability to have all three specs, and not waste my game time on going to a trainer, adding buttons back on the toolbars, etc, would be nice. Either way, it's possible to do it, so just making it so it's not a hassle isn't going to break the game. If it were, the time I take to do it would wreck the game. It's all about not wasting time on silly little things, so I and others can enjoy the game.
    What's the point in having specs then?

    The point is you have to decide which type of paladin you want to play. Tank, healer or DPS. If you can have all 3, then there's no point in spec'ing at all. Then they might as well do away with specs all together and just transform all specializations into a stance bar, and give all skills currently in the talent tree free of charge (maybe some could only be used in a specific 'Spec'). But then we're back at square one again, everyone has exactly the same spec (albeit that may already be the case, still though, hypothetically, you can spec however you want), and there's no telling apart the same classes - which is what GC is referring to.

  3. #63
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolleDK View Post
    What's the point in having specs then?

    The point is you have to decide which type of paladin you want to play. Tank, healer or DPS. If you can have all 3, then there's no point in spec'ing at all. Then they might as well do away with specs all together and just transform all specializations into a stance bar, and give all skills currently in the talent tree free of charge (maybe some could only be used in a specific 'Spec'). But then we're back at square one again, everyone has exactly the same spec (albeit that may already be the case, still though, hypothetically, you can spec however you want), and there's no telling apart the same classes - which is what GC is referring to.

    Can you change specs in combat? Can you change all your gear associated with the specs in combat? No. There is no reason not to implement tri-spec whatsoever. I can get the exact same thing you are mentioning by going to the trainer to change specs. All tri-spec does is make it easier and more convenient. GC is referring to rogues complaining there was no real differences between the playstyles of the 3 specs, which has absolutely nothing to do with tri-spec, it has to do with Blizzard taking away certain specs uniqueness and making them baseline/talents so the specs ended up playing the same.

  4. #64
    Anything to make the hybrid classes lives more difficult is fine by me. There needs to be SOME restrictions in place. Some trade-off for the flexibility in role choice.

  5. #65
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
    Anything to make the hybrid classes lives more difficult is fine by me. There needs to be SOME restrictions in place. Some trade-off for the flexibility in role choice.
    I know plenty of pure dps who want tri-spec. Back when my main was a rogue, I wanted tri-spec. I raided and pvped. During wrath(ICC) assassination was best for single target fights with little to no movement while combat was better for high movement fights. Then for pvp you needed a different spec. And last tier you needed a combat spec for cleave fights or you were gimping your raid, but combat didn't do well in non-cleave fights.

  6. #66
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    I call BS on Ghost Crawlers statements. Everyone is the damn same now it won't make a difference.

  7. #67
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    Just delete this post
    Last edited by PolleDK; 2013-05-01 at 08:25 PM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    I call BS on Ghost Crawlers statements. Everyone is the damn same now it won't make a difference.
    I call /facepalm on most questions.

    On another note, i remember playing mmorpgs and i couldn't change spec whatsoever. Clicked agi or dex or sta by mistake? Tough luck, roll a new char and try again!

  9. #69
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    woops, double post.
    Last edited by PolleDK; 2013-05-01 at 07:17 PM.

  10. #70
    Silly Exodus aren't as good / can't keep up so they give up. Also it's a little ignorant to say 25man are more hardcore... 25 and 10 are different that's about it 10 is as hard / can be harder on an individual level.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    I respect what the vodka guys did in the past, but what a load of emotional crap to be honest. There is no reason to assume that the hardcore raider is a dying breed and that it will all eventually collapse into one big massive uniform heap of casualness and LFR enjoyment. They are quitting because they can no longer attract the talent necessary to compete for a top 5 spot, and that is simply because the amount of dedicated top tier raiding guilds has increased due to the increased popularity of certain top guilds, the almost celebrity cultus that has come with the streaming phenomenon, the addition of high profile sponsorship deals and the exposure the cream of the crop is getting from both the player base and WoW media.

    A least quit in style instead of predicting the apocalypse of hardcore raiding.
    You're really off base on this one.

    They're not saying hardcore raiding is dying off and will collapse into the casualness and LFR and its membership. Rather the time commitment is prohibitive. Guess what, they're right.

    Pretty much with the continued alt unfriendliness of MoP, dailies, farm management, rep grinding, capping valor/conquest etc. What does that leave them time to do? When do they get to enjoy the game?

    For hardcore gaming top 5 25 man guilds capable of pushing world firsts WoW is their life. Not just professionally speaking but literally. They push 16-18 hour days doing world firsts. I've done 16-18 hour days on WoW after an objective by day 3 you are mentally exhausted, you cannot sleep, you cannot stay awake physiologically you're a mess. Emotionally you've shut off everything around you. It is completely unhealthy. At the start of a patch they're doing this for 1-3 weeks depending on raid difficulty. Honestly, I don't know how they do it.

    So these guilds are cannibalizing each other or eating each other alive because if you lose 1-3 people per patch that just can't do what I described anymore your team will fall apart faster than you can replace it. The members that want to continue start looking for a more "solid" guild.

    It is the exact same dynamic that happens with raiding guilds on any server since raiding started.

    If you think there is a celebrity cult with streaming and the sponsorships that go with those guilds you are correct. That is why guilds on the cusp of top 5 status are folding because their most dedicated players want that status and leave, the people there for the group end up having to throw in the towel on 25 man raiding because the challenges of keeping up the pace become increasingly difficult.

    There is not a net increase in top tier raiding guilds. The number is consistently decreasing on nearly every server. You're just seeing new names at the top of the world first lists and think it's reflective of an increase in top tier raiding guilds.
    Last edited by Misuteri; 2013-05-01 at 05:06 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandilf View Post
    I couldn't agree more. - And the added amount of time you use on alts is also insane but hay we wanted more to do when we're not raiding and we got it. The time consumption is just exploded in MoP for my part which also have lead med to almost quit the game now. Just can't put in all the hours needed to be competitive.
    But this has been what most of us having been saying since vanilla. Hardcore raiding was never ´hard´.. it was all about sacrificing your normal life to play a game like an addict. I remember a RL friend from vanilla who raided. I was simply floored when he told me he ´scheduled´ 12 hours of his life to raid. When you think of it, it is crazy to schedule your real life around that.

    Now you look at world-first. The ´winners´ this time said they raided 12-14 hours PER DAY.. for weeks.

    I look at myself, and I don´t raid because I could never imagine telling anyone in my real life that I can´t do something on thursday night because from 8-12pm I need to raid in a video game. Can you imagine what those ´winners´ had to tell their families for those 3 weeks?

    Exodus sounds like things turned against them.. but the fact is... they just finally grew up and realized how stupid it is to dedicate so much of your life and plans to schedule to play a game. What he said in that post is exactly what ´casual´ players have been saying since vanilla. Nothing has changed, just his perception.

  13. #73
    Pandaren Monk Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    Tank specs are actually often much more efficient at doing dailies because you can mass pull everything with no downtime. If you stick to 1v1 mobs as Prot, then yeah it's slower. But that's also your fault.
    You know that in world of warcraft (maybe you are speaking about another game), dps also do AOEing for dailies right ?

    If you are slower than a tank at doing them something is REALLY wrong.

  14. #74
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    This anti-triple spec argument of theirs is garbage. I play a hunter. I raid. I'm constantly switching talents and glyphs around in both specs - one way for soloing/dungeons/scenarios/dailies, and another way for raiding where I'm backed up by healers and there's no need for me to sneak past things etc. Triple spec would alleviate that - a little.

    The biggest benefit to me for more specs is the saving of my action bars. Yes, there are addons to do that but they are flakey and seem to break often, likely due to changes made by Blizzard.

    So... the tweet was something along the lines of "this would make rogues all be the same". What? How? How is two specs different from three? Hell I could use 4 - no, 5 - just from what I said above: SV non-raid, SV raid, BM non-raid, BM raid, PVP. As it is I'll switch talents and glyphs around to meet my needs anyway. The difference is that I have I to f around with my action bars each time and it's a pain in the ass. How does adding the convenience of a third spec make me suddenly identical to other hunters? (I have a rogue too, same argument.)

    What about hybrids, though? Paladins would have one spec for each role. OH GOD THE HORROR...? I guess if nothing else that would make them a little stronger of a character to bring to raids for the added flexibility - monks, paladins, druids. So I could see Blizzard arguing that. But they don't. They're just worried that somehow - god forbid - two rogues are the same.

    It must be a PVP thing. That's got to be it. PVP considerations seem to ruin PVE play on a regular basis. I'll just assume that it's doing it again.

  15. #75
    What a load of crap. This dev team has done nothing but REMOVE uniqueness from the game and now GC uses that as an excuse to not have tri-spec.
    LOL what's the frigging difference at this point GC? You've already managed to homogenize CLASSES let alone specs.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Can you change specs in combat? Can you change all your gear associated with the specs in combat?
    Not yet. Give it some time though. I'm sure someone will ask for it sooner or later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    There is no reason not to implement tri-spec whatsoever. I can get the exact same thing you are mentioning by going to the trainer to change specs. All tri-spec does is make it easier and more convenient. GC is referring to rogues complaining there was no real differences between the playstyles of the 3 specs, which has absolutely nothing to do with tri-spec, it has to do with Blizzard taking away certain specs uniqueness and making them baseline/talents so the specs ended up playing the same.
    People wanted dual specs in the past, now tri-specs. Soon it will be Quad Specs, Penta Specs etc. Then, when we have all the combinations we could think of ever needing, we want it to be even easier to switch between them, even in combat, because of some arbitrary reason, maybe a boss fight requires 3 tanks in phase 1, but only 1 in phase 2; "Would be nice to switch to DPS in combat, else I'm useless half the fight!".

    See where I'm going? It never ends until you have all the possibilities at the click of a button, and without moving an inch.

    You might be able to get the same thing by visiting a trainer, however, once there, you have to choose which is good thing in my opinion. Let there at least be something left that requires you to move somewhere.

    As a matter of fact:
    Quote Originally Posted by markdall View Post
    ... Hell I could use 4 - no, 5 - just from what I said above: SV non-raid, SV raid, BM non-raid, BM raid, PVP....
    See? Didn't take long

    Learn to live with the fact that you have to choose sometimes. Else, what's next? We get to have all Primary Proffs as well? Sure would be nice. Never have to pay obscure amounts of gold for craftable things like gems, enchants etc.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    But this has been what most of us having been saying since vanilla. Hardcore raiding was never ´hard´.. it was all about sacrificing your normal life to play a game like an addict. I remember a RL friend from vanilla who raided. I was simply floored when he told me he ´scheduled´ 12 hours of his life to raid. When you think of it, it is crazy to schedule your real life around that.

    Now you look at world-first. The ´winners´ this time said they raided 12-14 hours PER DAY.. for weeks.

    I look at myself, and I don´t raid because I could never imagine telling anyone in my real life that I can´t do something on thursday night because from 8-12pm I need to raid in a video game. Can you imagine what those ´winners´ had to tell their families for those 3 weeks?

    Exodus sounds like things turned against them.. but the fact is... they just finally grew up and realized how stupid it is to dedicate so much of your life and plans to schedule to play a game. What he said in that post is exactly what ´casual´ players have been saying since vanilla. Nothing has changed, just his perception.
    'Real life' is a term I tend to hear a lot and its such an oxymoronic term. Your life is your life, and that is all there is to it.

    Raiding that hardcore would never be for me, but I wouldn't sneer at them just because they found something they are so passionate about. I happen to raid 12 hours a week, and to me that's a perfect balancing act that I can schedule. I have plenty of time to be social, finish up all my studying and coursework, as well as hold a part time job. I also enjoy playing with the people whom are in my guild, sometimes more-so than the people I see everyday.

    Anyways, what you seem to fail to realize is that there really is no room for that many guilds at the top to be competing that kind of level. It has less to do with having a commitment than it is to do with finding a replacement with that kind of commitment. If you take the whole raiding population, maybe 200 of them have the skill, commitment, and time to be able to play at that kind of level. They are already all taken, so when a top guild loses someone it is almost impossible for them to get a replacement. Top guilds cannibalize one another and eventually the weaker ones will die out.

  18. #78
    I like how after the Killars message was posted here, the first and only round of insults started on his fb post comments.

    Stay Classy MMO Champion, stay classy.

  19. #79
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidone View Post
    I call /facepalm on most questions.

    On another note, i remember playing mmorpgs and i couldn't change spec whatsoever. Clicked agi or dex or sta by mistake? Tough luck, roll a new char and try again!
    Well I have seen all the improvements in wow since 2004 and features that have come from its evolution, this will not make or break an already broken game.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexsa View Post
    DK being the key word there. Ghoul, bat, army of dead. Things other tanks don't have.
    Tank DPS is fairly balanced at the moment, with paladins actually having higher tank dps than DKs because they can reforge and gem for haste in their tank builds while DKs have to go for mastery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nexsa View Post
    Not eveybody wants to run a ton of addons.
    No one is talking about a ton of addons, we're talking about ONE addon. If you don't want to run for some irrational reason, that is your problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nexsa View Post
    What is unique? If I can change my spec at a trainer at any time, it' not unique. If I could only choose two specs from the moment I make my character, and never have the ability to ever change them no matter what, would probably make it a bit more unique. However, I and others can, so in the end we can have that spec or any spec possible to that toon. Once again, this just saves us time, and not having to have an addon to save bar layouts.
    Having access to all the specs accessible as an hybrid would make most people feel forced to keep a gearset for all the specs. Note that most people don't and don't want to feel psychologicaly pressured into other roles.

    Quote Originally Posted by markdall View Post
    The biggest benefit to me for more specs is the saving of my action bars. Yes, there are addons to do that but they are flakey and seem to break often, likely due to changes made by Blizzard.
    I've been using the same version of my action bar saving addon since early Cata and it still works perfectly. Your argument is invalid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    You know that in world of warcraft (maybe you are speaking about another game), dps also do AOEing for dailies right ?

    If you are slower than a tank at doing them something is REALLY wrong.
    DPS specs mostly can't pull very large groups of mobs because they lack a tank's defenses, forcing them to eat#drink in between pulls.
    Last edited by Shahad; 2013-05-01 at 07:42 PM.
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