American sentenced to 15 years hard labor by North Korea

[Kalyyn]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/01/world/...html?hpt=hp_t2

American citizen Kenneth Bae has been sentenced to 15 years in one of North Korea' infamous death-camps. And I, for one, am appalled. Not at North Korea, mind you. No, they've set the bar so low that nothing they do can ever lower it further. I am appalled that we are not willing to provide our people with more protection than this. Apparently the government *thinks* that North Korea will use him as a bargaining chip. So while this American is being put through hell on Earth, we *might* be negotiating his release.

When did we start taking this shit again? I remember a time when our policy was to make the retaliation for this sort of thing so severe, that harming Americans was suicidal at best, and unthinkable at worst. Now? It's something that is rewarded. So this man is going to undergo whatever nightmarish, sadistic treatment they can dream up in their evil minds, and then we're going to give them something in return for it.

And because we continue to reward this behavior, they'll do it again at the earliest opportunity. I don't know about you guys, but I'm a little irritated by this.

Edit:
For those who are confused on the matter, Bae was working as a tour guide in a factory complex which was jointly owned by North and South Korea. His charges were never stated. Rather, he was accused of "Serious Crimes". He himself reports that he has never been told what his crimes were. He was literally found guilty of "Serious Crimes". Which, to me, translates to "being American".

[Aeluron Lightsong]

15 years hard labor. Well that definitely sucks for him. What can we do though. North Korea isn't exactly stable or reasonable.

[Babzu]

Will america save its people? or toss them aside like trash? Are we better then north korea? or just as bad as they are?

STAND UP FOR THIS MAN! DEMAND HIS RESCUE, RIOT IN THE STREETS AND KNOCK ON THE WHITE HOUSE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!

[obdigore]

Will america save its people? or toss them aside like trash? Are we better then north korea? or just as bad as they are?

STAND UP FOR THIS MAN! DEMAND HIS RESCUE, RIOT IN THE STREETS AND KNOCK ON THE WHITE HOUSE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!

So we should invade a country because one of our citizens went to it and got brought up on charges while he was there?

[vizzle]

There's an old British lady in one of the SEA countries (iirc) right now who was recently sentenced to death for drug smuggling.

Granted, what she did was actually a crime, but just remember that the US isn't the only country who's not stepping in for their citizens asap. Especially with North Korea? The country that's been wagging its nuclear finger for the last few months like a dog wags its tail? Not so easy to intervene.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So we should invade a country because one of our citizens went to it and got brought up on charges while he was there?

Depends on the circumstances. Why did he go over there anyways? I'm sure it wasn't the women.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

As horrible as it may be, the USA can't just run in guns hot and get him out of there. If they did that, chances are that he would be dead before he was rescued. Their best bet is to find some sort of diplomatic solution.

If you truly care about his life, let the government do their work and get him out of there.

[Arkenaw]

Bae entered North Korea on a valid tourist visa

Does not compute. Why would anyone tour North Korea?

[Zhangfei]

Do we know if the guy is innocent? I'm a firm believer of following a country's laws when one is present. This lad never had to go to NK...

[Cthulhu 2020]

If the Koreans had oil, the severe militaristic engine would come down on them. Seeing as how they don't, don't be surprised at all that America is like "meh".

[Deleted]

If the Koreans had oil, the severe militaristic engine would come down on them. Seeing as how they don't, don't be surprised at all that America is like "meh".

So what you're saying is Americans should be allowed to go anywhere they want and not obey other countries laws?

[Kalyyn]

Do we know if the guy is innocent? I'm a firm believer of following a country's laws when one is present. This lad never had to go to NK...

Seeing as he was in a South Korean facility, and North Korea never revealed what his crimes were, I'm fairly certain they are in the wrong here.

[Kaleredar]

Do we know if the guy is innocent? I'm a firm believer of following a country's laws when one is present. This lad never had to go to NK...

Well, seeing as North Korea hasn't actually said what they're even accusing the guy of beyond "crimes against North Korea." That could mean a whole lot of things in a dictatorship.

If the Koreans had oil, the severe militaristic engine would come down on them. Seeing as how they don't, don't be surprised at all that America is like "meh".

I'm sorry, I must have missed all of the other countries attempting to righteously invade north korea to down its regime and free its people.

What? Not a one?

[kivipää]

Does not compute. Why would anyone tour North Korea?

if you know which chinese contacts to oil up, you can get a VIP tour of the place. This one guy once did a two-part documentary on it, mostly by filming in secret. It's like no other place on this earth. There was a gas station/restaurant thing on the side of a large highway run by a single woman who was absolutely thrilled to have a guest, play ping pong and make tea with them because they were the first human beings she had seen for 7 months. On a 4-laner side stop. And the underground bunker-palace where they put on display the most exorbitant things, supposedly gifts from other world leaders. Made in NK, but some of them are treasures a mere millionaire couldn't afford.
In short, it's exotic, unique, secluded and dangerous. Perfect for excentric wealthy westerners who have more money and boldness than self-preservance instinct. Especially in the current political climate.

[Kalyyn]

If you truly care about his life, let the government do their work and get him out of there.

Because we are acting as spineless cowards, his safety is dependent on North Korea getting anything they want. In times past, North Korea's safety would have depended on his safety.

But apparently being an American no longer means anything.

[breadisfunny]

Well, seeing as North Korea hasn't actually said what they're even accusing the guy of beyond "crimes against North Korea." That could mean a whole lot of things in a dictatorship.

maybe he insulted the great leader's fashion sense?

[kivipää]

I'm sorry, I must have missed all of the other countries attempting to righteously invade north korea to down its regime and free its people.
What? Not a one?

The original stereotypical US dissin' aside, let's be fair and realistic now. That's not a valid comparison. North Korean army is twice the size of China's. China's! Excluding nukes, which nobody is willing to use, US is the only one with enough of a tech advantage to even hope to overcome those numbers. And nobody can compete with numbers.

[Skulltaker]

I am sorry for the guy. Starving children, world hunger, diseases, war and natural disasters affecting thousands of individuals kind of bother me more. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Or maybe he's an agent who was caught.

[Kaleredar]

Because we are acting as spineless cowards, his safety is dependent on North Korea getting anything they want. In times past, North Korea's safety would have depended on his safety.

What was the last country that the United States straight-up invaded because they were holding a single American inside of a jail cell?

We've basically laid all our cards against north Korea; crippling sanctions, embargoes, a political freeze-out... You can't trade "less than zero" with them. North Korea is already a hell-hole. The North Korean government doesn't really give a damn.

The original stereotypical US dissin' aside, let's be fair and realistic now. That's not a valid comparison. North Korean army is twice the size of China's. China's! Excluding nukes, which nobody is willing to use, US is the only one with enough of a tech advantage to even hope to overcome those numbers. And nobody can compete with numbers.

So in essence, the United States is forced to play world police in this situation because everyone else is too weak to?

So in essence:

"Stupid lazy US, sitting on your asses while people suffer! You should go in and do something!... oh... wait, you want our help... uh... well, nah, we're going to pass but... Hey! We'll morally back you, at least for the first couple years... then we'll call you overreaching for messing in other country's businesses. Then we'll come up with some other country we think you should liberate."

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Because we are acting as spineless cowards, his safety is dependent on North Korea getting anything they want. In times past, North Korea's safety would have depended on his safety.

But apparently being an American no longer means anything.

So you're saying that because they have a single US citizen, the USA should simply threaten with war on an entire country?

Do you have any idea how dumb that sounds? The man probably doesn't deserve the sentence, but you're saying his life is worth more than the lives of soldiers that would die to carry out a threat...

Think logically here. A diplomatic and NON VIOLENT solution would be best for everybody.