Help with Tortos 10 man

[Moonlily]

Hello!

Once again I find myself having to post here, cause we are stuck on a boss! But everytime your suggestions help us get a kill, so why not try again

We have been on Tortos for a few nights now, but our best attempts so far was around 30-40%. We've been unlucky with team composition, can't manage to get a stable one, but last night we were running with 2 Tanks (Monk on Tortos and DK on bats), 3 Healers (Disc, Holy priest and Resto druid), 2 Melee (Frost DK and Fury warrior), 3 Ranged (Ele shammy, SV hunter and Destro lock on kicking duty).

We tank the bats next to the boss, so melees dont have to keep running around too much, have ranged and healers kinda spread out around the middle. We are already using a healing cd rotation for the stomps, that seems to be working quite well. And we have said to everyone to keep slowing the turtles. I try to use my Earthgrab totem as often as possible, not sure what everyone else is using and if they are using it, there's too much going on in this fight to be able to keep track of that too! :P
We had lots of random deaths, but our bat tank seemed to be dieing quite often as well, and thats worrying! We've assigned our Disc priest to stay on him when the bats are down, but still, he dies. If it is a lack of healing or a bad management of defensive cd's I dont know

The monk tank was a pug, and we surely won't invite him again, as it took him forever to get the positioning right, even if everyone was telling him to move closer to the boss. This caused a few deaths, but usually we don't have this problem.

So, anything else we could do?

Logs from last night: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xwxsjoiz2c6nb9rb/

Thanks in advance!


P.S. I've seen a lot of you suggesting to have more dps on the bats... at the moment we have our ranged focusing on the turtles until they are all dead and then eventually finish off the bats that are left. Should we change that and have some ranged on bats? (Keep in mind that we only have 3 ranged dps and we are already struggling to kill all the turtles before new ones come out, only have like 5 seconds to get some dps on bats and Tortos)

[Halifax]

Some comments:

I know you said you wont bring the Monk again, but I have to say that the Monk was bad. Like, really bad. 65% shuffle uptime on a tank and spank boss? That should be 99% on a boss like Tortos. I don't even want to think about what healing him must have felt like.

The bat tank dying is the #1 wipe cause on every group I've done Tortos with, so you're not alone on that one. In my experience, the bats simply hit too hard to facetank them without cooldowns. How my group does it:

I (monk tank) tank Tortos and our OT (Paladin) gets bats. When he aggros them, he drags them to where I am, and I start AoEing. With the Vengence I have from tanking the boss, a Keg Smash/RJW gets a lot of bats onto me and I hit a guard. Some of the bats usually stay on the Paladin, which is good because it splits the burst damage coming in from the bats. Once my guard is broken, I hit Leg Sweep (AoE stun) and the bats are usually dead before the stun ends. Doing this also means I do a fuckton of damage (I usually end around 200k dps because of the vengence fueled AoE on the bats) which is a lot less dps your dps role players have to do.

Bat tank dying is (probably) not your healers' fault. You can't expect to just drop AoE threat, pop no mitigation cooldowns/stuns, and expect your healers to carry you through bat damage.

One other comment: You ele shaman's dps is pretty low for this fight. There is a lot of opportunity for ele to shine on this fight, and he really shouldn't be in last place.

[Deja Thoris]

The bat tank should be dragging the bats over to the boss and when he has sufficient aggro everyone can aoe (by everyone I mean the melee and the other tank) If hes dieing with 3 healers hes getting hit in the back or something retarded tbh. The bats should evaporate.

Otherwise, if you can get to 40% you just have to keep your shit together for aother minute or 2. Theres not much more to say.

[Lumineus]

Bats hurt a lot (like his avoidance is really low, or they're getting behind him a lot) but it seems like your OT is dying mostly to damage from Tortos. I saw one attempt where Snapping Bite took off his absorb shield immediately after he death striked, leaving him to die to the bats' damage. Monk should have been eating that as MT, and certainly while bats were down. Another attempt where Tortos straight up meleed him to death. Several others were he took multiple hits from stone breath.

[underdogba]

Bottom line is that if you do not cover the boss's specials with some sort of active mitigation move, no matter which class you're playing, you're going to get your face smashed in.

[Sonnillon]

Firstly have ONLY your DK or Warrior slowing the Turtles and NO ONE else. Why? Just cause if a warrior uses his AoE slow and someone let say a hunter or someone uses theirs, it will break the warrior slow effect and s/he has to use it again. Have ONLY one person with AoE slow, slow the turtles.

For bat tanking:

• You bat tank needs to be kept above 350k. If he drops below that, the bats start to life drain, which is truly a bad thing. If your bat tank cannot be kept above 350k while he is tanking bats, you have a bad healer assigned to him/her. Bats to physical damage, so any form of active mitigation which works in reducing or fully mitigating physical hits will be a great thing to have up.
• Secondly the bats can be AoE stunned - paladin's AoE stun work, so does druid's Roar and I believe some other as well. The stun help when the bats initially land.
• Thirdly MAKE SURE that bats are dead when a Quake is incoming, as when you have bats+quake you can count on your bat tank dropping below 350k, which could mean a tank death. If however you see that you cannot get the bats down as fast as you would like to have your bat tank use a def. CD to lessen the damage.
• Make sure your tank(s) don't get hit by rockfall and pay attention to where they stand. If there is many rockfall in one location, the damage in combination with everything else can get big.

Your Panda tank didn't get enough heals. If you look at the death browser, he got hit by the bats, dropped low enough, and the drain of the weak happened.

[21:03:27.204] Rockfall Rockfall Pandzia 44914
[21:03:27.453] Biopriester Echo of Light Pandzia +2346
[21:03:27.596] Vampiric Cave Bat hits Pandzia 33548 (A: 16400)
[21:03:27.650] Vampiric Cave Bat hits Pandzia 35558 (A: 17383)
[21:03:27.650] Vampiric Cave Bat hits Pandzia 36660 (A: 17922)
[21:03:27.650] Vampiric Cave Bat hits Pandzia 35300 (A: 17257)
[21:03:27.650] Vampiric Cave Bat hits Pandzia 43267 (A: 21152)
[21:03:27.650] Vampiric Cave Bat hits Pandzia 32099 (A: 15692)
[21:03:27.650] Vampiric Cave Bat hits Pandzia 30736 (A: 15026)
[21:03:27.650] Vampiric Cave Bat hits Pandzia 35800 (A: 17502)
[21:03:27.650] Pandzia Stagger Pandzia 27680
[21:03:28.031] Vampiric Cave Bat Drain the Weak Pandzia 8008 (A: 3915)
[21:03:28.031] Vampiric Cave Bat Drain the Weak Pandzia 9948 (A: 4863)
[21:03:28.031] Vampiric Cave Bat Drain the Weak Pandzia 9665 (A: 4724)
[21:03:28.031] Vampiric Cave Bat Drain the Weak Pandzia 7659 (A: 3744)
[21:03:28.390] Pandzia dies

Even that it is a matter of seconds it should be plenty for a healer to get some heals in (I took you longest attempt as an example). Not enough heals and maybe poor def. CD usage...

For the rest:

• As I said, assign only person with AoE slow to slow down turtles
• If you are using DBM you can turn on the automated markers for this boss, which will mark turtles with skull/cross/square. So your DPS knows which to burn down first.
• If you "kill" a turtle, make sure you are not boxing it in the corner, as if you do, you could not be able to kick it.
• Assign only one person for kicking, someone for backup
• Make sure you guys move away from the Rockfall circles as they still do damage outside the marked circles. If there are tons of Rockfall location in one spot, move far away from it, as all the damage from those will be added together, when the rocks land.
• When you deal with the turtles and for "practice" pop BL as soon as you have a skull on one turtle and burn it down. If DPS is not an issue, burn the turtle down w/o BL and use it after the first breath as then Tortos already has a shell stack which increases the damage you guys to do him.
• Try to maintain the shell debuff on boss, for more damage (by kicking the extra shells into him (but the shell debuff doesn't stack, so make sure you let the old one run out first before you kick a new shell)
• You can kick a shell through bats as well to damage those.

[Rokadok]

[QUOTE=Moonlily;21008769]Hello!

Once again I find myself having to post here, cause we are stuck on a boss! But everytime your suggestions help us get a kill, so why not try again

We have been on Tortos for a few nights now, but our best attempts so far was around 30-40%. We've been unlucky with team composition, can't manage to get a stable one, but last night we were running with 2 Tanks (Monk on Tortos and DK on bats), 3 Healers (Disc, Holy priest and Resto druid), 2 Melee (Frost DK and Fury warrior), 3 Ranged (Ele shammy, SV hunter and Destro lock on kicking duty).

We tank the bats next to the boss, so melees dont have to keep running around too much, have ranged and healers kinda spread out around the middle. We are already using a healing cd rotation for the stomps, that seems to be working quite well. And we have said to everyone to keep slowing the turtles. I try to use my Earthgrab totem as often as possible, not sure what everyone else is using and if they are using it, there's too much going on in this fight to be able to keep track of that too! :P
We had lots of random deaths, but our bat tank seemed to be dieing quite often as well, and thats worrying! We've assigned our Disc priest to stay on him when the bats are down, but still, he dies. If it is a lack of healing or a bad management of defensive cd's I dont know

The monk tank was a pug, and we surely won't invite him again, as it took him forever to get the positioning right, even if everyone was telling him to move closer to the boss. This caused a few deaths, but usually we don't have this problem.

Well I've tanked tortos and did bat tank as well, your comp is similar to ours, heals- Pali, disc, rdruid. Melle/tanks - Dk(tank) warrior (tank) rogue,warrior (dps) hunter and lock,sham

On the bat part have ur dk tank pick em up and bring em to other tank, drop a banner(war.) and hunter uses traps also, have the dk pop remorse winter, I take barely any dmg and have a very high vengeance so my dips is insane high 210+
Now on the second bat rotation same way but sham drop healing tide and our rogue pops smoke
Next bats is same except we use devo aura and a raid cd for healers.

Also I noticed u guys take wayyy to much dmg from rockfall, that number should be near 10% ish. Make sure everyone uses whole cave area not just mid. Usaaly we say range go mid and left while melle moves with our bat tank on opposite side of boss tank.

Side note have 1 of the dks glyph so the DNd slows enemy's it's very useful on turtles entering and bat kitting.

That's what I could think of the top of my head

[Moonlily]

Some comments:

I know you said you wont bring the Monk again, but I have to say that the Monk was bad. Like, really bad. 65% shuffle uptime on a tank and spank boss? That should be 99% on a boss like Tortos. I don't even want to think about what healing him must have felt like.

Yes our healers did say he was taking a lot more damage than our usual tank =/

I (monk tank) tank Tortos and our OT (Paladin) gets bats. When he aggros them, he drags them to where I am, and I start AoEing. With the Vengence I have from tanking the boss, a Keg Smash/RJW gets a lot of bats onto me and I hit a guard. Some of the bats usually stay on the Paladin, which is good because it splits the burst damage coming in from the bats. Once my guard is broken, I hit Leg Sweep (AoE stun) and the bats are usually dead before the stun ends. Doing this also means I do a fuckton of damage (I usually end around 200k dps because of the vengence fueled AoE on the bats) which is a lot less dps your dps role players have to do.

That's something we may try to do, as often bats aren't getting killed quickly enough.

One other comment: You ele shaman's dps is pretty low for this fight. There is a lot of opportunity for ele to shine on this fight, and he really shouldn't be in last place.

I'm the Ele shammy, and yes, I know, my dps is really bad on this boss, I know I could be top dps if I could get more dps on the bats, but turtles are up pretty much all the time, so that leaves no room for aoe

[matthias9742]

Here is a log for our first Tortos kill this evening (Yay! DK tank PoV)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...?s=2006&e=2452

It looks like Rockfall is a big problem for your raiders. This fight can go for up to 8 minutes so have your team pace themselves and make damage avoidance priority one.

You also might try having your DK tank Tortos instead, as many small adds puts him at a disadvantage. (Blood shield takes time to build, many small hits will wreck him, but against Snapping bite he at least has time to DS once or twice). Also he can use Gorefiend's grasp on the other tank, pulling all the bats to his co-tank 1/min. Plus he can Blood boil the turtles with chillblains up to slow them down 50% and do a TON of damage to them via diseases. Also have your DK tank use AMS! It blocks ALL rockfall damage when glyphed, up to his max health and provides a huge increase in vengeance and runic power. Also have him drop conversion for death pact. With vamp blood up its 70% of his total health heal, making it a great o-shart button.

For the bats remember that they can be stunned with either turtle shells or player abilities, so stun them often! For your comp line up remorseless winter to go off right before a quake stomp if the bats are still alive and then shockwave after first stun ends should be more than enough for player stuns. Also depending on how much multitasking your hunter can handle have him misdirect the bats at the bat tank.

Relating to the stun your DPS is a touch low, but that might be due to rockfall deaths. Make sure you are trying to kick extra turtles at the boss and adds, as that 25% damage buff adds up in the end.

For healing your numbers look good if your mana can sustain it. To make your lives easier for initial bat threat have your warlock make their gate go from the left to right side, and use it before bats come out to act as a threat dump till your tank can pick them up. You can also use the gate to avoid rockfall if you wait till the blue circles pop up at your feet and the jump over (This WILL backfire if someone on the other side does the same thing).

Hope this helps and goodluck to ya.

[Moonlily]

Bats hurt a lot (like his avoidance is really low, or they're getting behind him a lot) but it seems like your OT is dying mostly to damage from Tortos. I saw one attempt where Snapping Bite took off his absorb shield immediately after he death striked, leaving him to die to the bats' damage. Monk should have been eating that as MT, and certainly while bats were down. Another attempt where Tortos straight up meleed him to death. Several others were he took multiple hits from stone breath.

As I've said, that monk tank had issues with understanding where to stay, he kept running away from the boss to avoid Rockfall and that caused the other tank and the melee to get attacked by the boss. But he was just a pug, so I woudnt worry about that, it was the first time we had this happen.

[Deleted]

Are you using excess turtles to apply the damage debuff to the incoming turtles and/or bats?
Those 25% help a lot in getting the turtles down faster and putting more damage on the bats, so that they are dead or almost dead by the time the quake hits.
Although with 2 DKs you can probably stun the bats at each quake - just make sure the tank moves away from the frozen bats so the don't synchronize their hits

You might want to split the raid a bit more into left and right as standing in the middle seemed to cause more turtle "accidents" and more splash damage from those stalactites for us.

If you really have trouble slowing the adds you could try to convince your warlock to go affliction and use soulburn plus glyphed curse of exhaustion to slow all turtles by 70% for 15 seconds. However he will lose quite a lot of damage doing this so it might not pay off in the end.

Also try to concentrate on one turtle at a time - 2 turtles as 80% are easier to handle than 3 on 50% - you still want to multi dot though.

[Moonlily]

Firstly have ONLY your DK or Warrior slowing the Turtles and NO ONE else. Why? Just cause if a warrior uses his AoE slow and someone let say a hunter or someone uses theirs, it will break the warrior slow effect and s/he has to use it again. Have ONLY one person with AoE slow, slow the turtles.

I didn't think about that, I may be wrong but I think the longest slow we have is Chillblains from our Frost DK, that could chuck an Howling Blast when they come out.

[fireywrath]

make sure to tell your ranged or anyone whos in middle do not attack bats they will go for the mele and tank whos infront of the boss everytime if random deaths its couse a ranged accedntly targets a bat it happend to a boomkin who was right next to me the healer he died then the 2 stray bats went for me. also don't stack all on 1 side in mid have 1 healer on each corner and main raid healer in mid for maxiam coverage. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rmind/advanced

[Moonlily]

[*]Secondly the bats can be AoE stunned - paladin's AoE stun work, so does druid's Roar and I believe some other as well. The stun help when the bats initially land.

I think we were using a stun, but then someone pointed out that once the bats come out of the stun, they will all attack the tank and the same time, causing a huge spike dmg. Should we not worry about that and stun them anyway?

[Bonsaii]

I recommend having your lock go demo and have him wreck the bats, make sure hunter uses multi shot on bats and they will melt.
Make the hunter kick turtles, putting the lock on them is a bad idea since he'll have to move a lot.

[ivarh]

On a side note Im one of my raid groups tanks. As a guardian druid I find tanking Tortos difficult since I dont have enough cooldowns to eat his snapping bites. I must be missing something as we dont last long with me on tortos. When I swap places with my palading tank partner and tank the bats it works much better and we usually get him down in 3-4 attempts. Any guardian druids have any hints on how to tank the boss himself?

My druid is biteme on jubei'thos for those who want to check my build/talents

-Ivar

[Moonlily]

You also might try having your DK tank Tortos instead, as many small adds puts him at a disadvantage. (Blood shield takes time to build, many small hits will wreck him, but against Snapping bite he at least has time to DS once or twice). Also he can use Gorefiend's grasp on the other tank, pulling all the bats to his co-tank 1/min. Plus he can Blood boil the turtles with chillblains up to slow them down 50% and do a TON of damage to them via diseases. Also have your DK tank use AMS! It blocks ALL rockfall damage when glyphed, up to his max health and provides a huge increase in vengeance and runic power. Also have him drop conversion for death pact. With vamp blood up its 70% of his total health heal, making it a great o-shart button.

Will try to put him on Tortos instead and thanks for pointing out AMS and Death Pact! Will tell him about it

[Nivrax]

I recommend having your lock go demo and have him wreck the bats, make sure hunter uses multi shot on bats and they will melt.
Make the hunter kick turtles, putting the lock on them is a bad idea since he'll have to move a lot.

Huh? I'm Destro, and in my guild runs, I'm sitting on bats (yay for 0-1 melee setups!) and I'm only kicker at same time. Destro have sick aoe and KJC makes movement a non-issue. In the setup OP posted, I would recommend Destro even more and have him chain Chaos Bolts and Havoc burns on turtles. Which it seems he does.

Oh, and if you wipe on 30-40%, you are in for big suprise. Real chaos starts at 25% when he just spams turtles. You must have bats handled properly if you want to even have chance of killing him.

[Cuppy]

How we do it. (We're both DK tanks)
I'll start tanking Tortos until the first stomp to gain 60-70k vengeance and I'll take the first set off bats, throw off BS and VB (Possibly even a trinket) and drag the bats at the boss. We AoE them down and I'll grab the next set of bats with IBF up.
Third set of bats I need a CD from someone, but BS and VB are both off cd so I'm quite safe.
4th set of bats is tanked by the tortos tank, he uses a CD, we AoE bats and switch back. Got some cd's up again and tortos is coming near 30%.
Pop BL and throw cd's on the bat-tank and AoE bats infront of the boss (A bit left since turtles inc).
The bats hit so_hard and if your tank gets below 35% bats will heal and it's a good chance for a wipe since the bats also heal, and stomp is incoming.
I think warrior or paladin tank could be the best for the bats. DK isn't the best bat tank, Shield gets ripped apart in a second, and our passive avoidance isn't the best.

We have a hunter usually on the kick duty and it works well. After we batch of turtles, we have extra and they can be kicked to the bats aswell.

[Navoan]

If bats truly are the problem here, try to use your spare turtle shells for them. If your tank picks them up, drags them right in-front of Tortos and someone kicks a turtle through them, you gain 25% dmg done to all of the bats AND Tortos, it's a nice trick. We do this for the incoming Turtles rather than the bats which were never really a problem for us. Make good use of your raids abilities and bat tank deaths become a thing of the past. Get your druid to spec for Ursol's Vortex, it is an awesome CD for tanking the bats, if he's in trouble, or simply feels he has a lot of aggro and would like a bit of downtime from being smashed in the face, call out for vortex (placed ontop of the bats) and simply run away. They all get dragged back and slowed, you can easily get 10secs of non-dmg by doing this, as well as DPS etc continuing on them.

Alternatively, if you end up using another Monk tank (I know your one this time was a pug, but incase you get a new one) perhaps try kiting them. We don't have a monk so ofc haven't done it, but I've seen vids of a Brewmaster simply using Keg Toss to get aggro on all incoming bats and just runs around for 8mins kiting them, tell DPS to completely ignore them, focus on boss and turtles only and job done.

If you have your DK tanking Tortos, spreading diseases to bats, and your bat-tank dmg + melee they should melt. Don't forget things like Remorseless winter, but I'd advise against Shockwave, allow your Fury War to select the AoE DPS talent instead. In HC it's just me (Guardian druid) and a Fury war, we get the bats down alone with no problems at all.

Best of luck,
Nav

Edit:

...When I swap places with my palading tank partner and tank the bats it works much better and we usually get him down in 3-4 attempts. Any guardian druids have any hints on how to tank the boss himself?

Any raid with a Paladin should use them on Tortos, SotR completely negates the Snapping Bite dmg, it's just stupid. As a Guardian you should be on Bats, Savage Defense is just OP for bats, you can literally avoid 70%+ of attacks whilst it's up. Thrash does ridiculous dmg to the bats, and if tanked by Tortos you can DPS him with your AoE and also try get get incoming Call of Tortos' with your Thrash for extra dmg. So, keep SD as much as pos (build rage on Tortos before each wave of bats). Use Incarnation on a wave of bats you need down especially fast, just Thrash to get the DoT on then spam Swipe til they die (weave in some mangles if you really need rage for SD). As I said earlier, Me (Guardian) and a Fury war take care of the bats on HC (we did the same in normal) with hunter just ensuring to keep Serpent sting up on them (massive dmg on so many targets), easy.

My log for our last Tortos kill: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7247&e=7652