DK tanks in ToT, need HQ input.

[Nhairne]

Hello DK community! I am a healer and raid leader for my guild, as such I feel like I have a decent understanding of how to play a blood DK. I get the stat weights and basic priorities etc. However in raids, it feels like the spiky nature of a DKs health bar compared to any other tanking class is problematic. I get that the self healing makes up for the increases number of full hits, but it feels like there is no margin for error.

Take for instance Horridon after Jalak's death. My DK can tank him fine chaining cds, but once that cd chain runs out he explodes into a cloud of red mist. Where a bear with less gear is able to survive under the same conditions for much longer.

My question then is: Am I seeing a disparity in the tanking classes for this content or a problem with the player behind the toon?

[Deleted]

It's often the player.

As a DK, we have methods of building up stronger blood shields to help mitigate large amounts of incoming damage. Generally, we'll follow a rotation and use Death Strike on cooldown but occasionally (especially fights like horridon and tortos that have high amount of damage incoming from a single, predictible ability) we'll be able to utilise mechanics to specifically mitigate those abilities. for example, on Tortos, I let my scent of blood stacks build to 3 or 4 and then unleashing a death strike a second before snapping bite hits, completely mitigating the ability with a very strong shield.

You've noticed DK health is spikey, which is correct. But the fact that this guy is dying where a bear can survive just as well would usually mean they're doing something wrong. I never had any problems taking Horridon during his enrage. Make sure he's got IBF glyphed for reduced CD and that he's using his blood shields properly.

[Deleted]

Mostly the player behind the toon, I think dks survivability right now is great excluding a few things (like multiple adds). If you know that you'll be tanking a hardhitting boss/mob for longer than all your cds will last you can't simple chain them one after another, you need to weave them in between/when you don't have death strikes up. Every death strike is practically a small cooldown, make use of it. Due to our many cds dks are truly amazing at dealing with short periods of high damage, but I really don't feel like we suffer that much in longer situations either.

That there's a bit less margin of error for a dk than a warrior or druid might be true, but all tanks have a significant focus on active mitigation right now, and if you can't make use of that properly you will take a huge survivability hit regardless of class.

[wolfe2407]

Something is wrong there because with my 505 Blood DK without any set bonuses my health is usually static only moving when there is heavy magic attacks coming in... link your DK's armory of just tell us his name and server... the number one thing I would look at is his mastery right now mine is right around 140% self buffed, and I max my blood shield in 5-6 Death Strikes.

To answer your question directly it seems there might be an issue with the player but without being able to see his gear,macros, or UI I couldn't tell you 100%

Edit:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...xxios/advanced

That's my armory link as you can see I ignore hit and expertise as I don't really have much of a problem missing the boss and my threat gen is fine, also when a dk misses there runes are refunded to them unless is blood boil that just uses the rune miss or hit

[Deleted]

chaining cds on horridon isnt the right decision, you can die only by the tripple puncture or by the damage right after it.

[Nillo]

Horridon P2 (especially on heroic) is pretty much worse case scenario for a dk tank.
The problem is that a dk's average damage mitigation is lower than that of other tanks and Blood Shield doesn't work to well against burst that can one shot you, while it's amazing to recover from a burst or staying up against low damage taken.

chaining cds on horridon isnt the right decision, you can die only by the tripple puncture or by the damage right after it.

Wat? That's exactly why you have to chain cds....

That's my armory link as you can see I ignore hit and expertise as I don't really have much of a problem missing the boss and my threat gen is fine, also when a dk misses there runes are refunded to them unless is blood boil that just uses the rune miss or hit

You stack hit/expertise because it gives a significant amount of dps.... threat gen has been gone for years.
Also your mastery level is awfully low the way you reforge and gear.

[devilminion]

not chaining cds? ok get out of lfr then talk .

[Nillo]

Make sure he's got IBF glyphed for reduced CD and that he's using his blood shields properly.

I really don't think that glyph is a good idea - it's less overall reduction (and the autoattacks already hurt a lot) and bad timing may end up with it falling off before the triple puncture.

[ThHeretic]

Make sure he is using death siphon for an immediate 200k+ heal after the triple puncture. I generally throw a death strike right before the puncture than a death siphon right after, never any issues.

Dk's have to play very reactive, but a great dk will plan out how to mitigate all the dmg in advance.

[Deleted]

tripple puncture doesnt hit like every 5sec. there is no need for any cd except u are totally shit geard to survive white hits

[Deleted]

tripple puncture doesnt hit like every 5sec. there is no need for any cd except u are totally shit geard to survive white hits

or if you're not pulling your weight on the active mitigation front.

[devilminion]

or if u arent in lfr.

[Deleted]

I really don't think that glyph is a good idea - it's less overall reduction (and the autoattacks already hurt a lot) and bad timing may end up with it falling off before the triple puncture.

Timing does have to be precise, you're right. Unless there's some serious latency issues, it's a matter of making sure you're keeping an eye on timers and you're using it at the last possible second.

That said, if you don't need IBF outside of the enrage, the glyph is useless. The CD will still be too high to use it more than once (Providing your DPS are killing the boss before the 3rd tank swap).

[Deleted]

Make sure he is using death siphon for an immediate 200k+ heal after the triple puncture. I generally throw a death strike right before the puncture than a death siphon right after, never any issues.

Dk's have to play very reactive, but a great dk will plan out how to mitigate all the dmg in advance.

every tank has to do so, even druids or warriors

either u are shit geard or your healer suck, if you die by simple white hits. you can only die by taking direcall+whitehit+tripple puncture oder whitehit+tripple puncture with stacks. or you dont get enough healing, but every tank dies in this case.

[Nillo]

tripple puncture doesnt hit like every 5sec. there is no need for any cd except u are totally shit geard to survive white hits

Those 400k white hits every 2 seconds sure don't hurt .
Wat?

Make sure he is using death siphon for an immediate 200k+ heal after the triple puncture.

Yeah sure go suicidal and use Death Siphon instead of Death Strike because you don't need dat shield ..................

Ehhh whatever this discussion is stupid I'm out.

[Deleted]

if you die by white hits w/o cds you are unable to survive direcall+whitehit+tripple puncture. also there is 0 raid dmg except failing your dino or direcall, wich hits every 30sec? i dont think 5 healers are unable to keep 1 person alive

[devilminion]

Those 400k white hits every 2 seconds sure don't hurt .
Wat?

Yeah sure go suicidal and use Death Siphon instead of Death Strike because you don't need dat shield ..................

Ehhh whatever this discussion is stupid I'm out.

what he said.

[wolfe2407]

Nilo is correct on most everything he says

Although I believe he is talking mostly about heroic I am not 100% positive. your tank should be popping IBF before a puncture of possible and then either pet sac'ing or Vampiric Blood after. Also to answers Nilo on why my mastery is "low" that is what I am comfortable with, for me I feel that it is enough for now maybe later down the road i will add more.

The idea of using glyph IBF I really think is a bad idea you want the longer duration for most fight I only glyph it when i want the un-stunable effect from it more often and am not worried about taking more damage

Also you DK should be using death strike constantly and by the time a triple puncture comes out i usually have a nice shield built up of at least half to three-quarters of my health to take the brunt of the triple puncture

Last thing I'm gonna throw out there is that i really hate deat8h siphon i prefer death pact it heals me almost as good as a pally lay on hands. but it is what it is

GL I hope you guys have better luck in the future

[Pickwickman]

snips

I'm sorry, what? Even on normal when horridon is berserked you cannot keep up a 75% blood shield up unless gou just popped DRW and are lucky with dodge/parry. Especially on heroic, where his autoattacks will eat those Death Strikes immediately.

Also, I don't think you understand the strength of Death Siphon. If you have a good amount of vengeance, or the boss has a DMG debuff, it IS a LAY ON HANDS. I reckon you haven't ever tried it, but on for example Windlordhc it was the only way as a DK to survive, +dmg on boss, and high vengeance means 600k+ hp from a SINGLE death siphon.

There are more things here, but I won't mention them. If you are content to just play your class averagely, it's ok. But please, don't dismiss people that are actually correct.

[Reniat]

Well on 25H wind lord you wanted to shield more than the actual heal. Giving your healers the time they needed to bomb you with heals with the shield was more important than just mashing BIG heals, even if the heal size ended up being bigger than the shield+heal from death Strike.