challenge mode nerfed?

[Deleted]

Hey,

This might sound cocky but i dont intent it to do so

Anyway, just a couple of weeks in to Mop we started to practice for gold challenge mode, and I remember it being hard as hell, many attempts per dungeon and a good setup was required. We helped guildies and we got it on multiple characters, but it was still somewhat hard. Wipes happend somewhat often.

That happend maybe 6-8 months ago, now we tried it again because we lvled up new characters, and it was so easy, we one shotted pretty much every dungeon. I havnet been looking that frequently for challenge mode nerfs, but something must have happend. Is it the 5.2 class changes that made cms so easy or is it the fact that we've done then 10+ so we figured out the best way? I really think something has been nerfed.

Thanks in advance

[Deleted]

I don't recall a nerf to them. Perhaps your class composition was better this time around? Class composition makes a huge difference at such low ilvls. Also, having already done each CM several times as you say does make a difference and perhaps your skill might have improved all around from 6-8 months ago.

[jetersky]

If they've been nerfed, there has certainly been no mention of it in patch notes or the like, that I've seen anyhow. More than likely just the result of class tweaks and adjustments that needed to happen from the beginning of the expac.

[Fincayra]

the biggest thing that has happened to them is the number of gem slots in gear. Those extra stats are a HUGE upgrade over their 365 gear counterparts.

[Deleted]

Gem slots/knowledge of a dungeon. you obv wipe less on farm/alt runs than progress.

[Deleted]

It's mainly the buffs that happened in 5.1 and 5.2.

Also the fact that higher ilvl gear does actually give more stats even when scaled down.

[Deja Thoris]

Class changes, more gem slots, bigger gem bonuses (+180 int now etc). Add to this the shado-pan trinks which I feel are very strong for CM's.

I think all of these combined add up to quite a difference.

When 5.3 comes live there will be more indirect nerfs to them I think, resto drus getting a 20% external on a 1 min CD comes to mind, I'm sure there are other examples.

[Kisho]

No nerfs directly, but class changes make a pretty sizeable difference. For example, Brewmaster Monks got an ability that breaks stuns/fears/roots in 5.2. Prior to 5.2 stuns were a Brewmaster Monk's main weakness, especially in Challenge Modes. However, we can now deal with them with ease, which has boosted our survivability and brought the random insta-gibs down significantly.

I'm sure other classes got similar abilities which contribute to 'nerfing' the instance. It's similar to what's happened to vanilla raids: as far as I'm aware there have been no significant nerfs to the content since vanilla, when people were raiding them for a significant challenge. Nowadays however, even if you gather up 40 level 60s who are only in vanilla gear (no heirlooms, TBC greens, etc.), it's still far easier than it ever was in vanilla. Simple class changes/improvements make a huge difference.

So in short: no direct nerfs, and there probably will never be any. But class changes can contribute to a feeling of a 'nerfed' instance. On the other hand, they could also make the instance harder if the classes get nerfed! Can go either way.

[Nuckels]

It's mainly the buffs that happened in 5.1 and 5.2.

Also the fact that higher ilvl gear does actually give more stats even when scaled down.

This, the gearscale thing is so broken, a heroic item when scaled down gives less stats then its normalmode counterpart on my tier 14 chest /mindblown.

Then there is the reforge thing, a stat you reforge from in to hit/expertise also doesn't get lowered in ilvl.

[Deleted]

To answer all of u at once.

I agree and I understand that better gear makes it easier due to more gem slots, better itemization, better socket bonuses. But someone mentioned that we probably brought a different setup this time, and thats not true. We had way better setup back then.

For example, scarlet monastary. I remember having a hard time making the timer w.o a dk. I remember us aiming for first boss dead before 10min mark, and that that would be a good start. I also remember us having a dk that cut us a minute from first boss.

We tried sm a couple of days ago. 2 new guys, first time in any cm. First boss was dead at 10.50. 2 of the dpsers had 520 ilvl with pretty decent gear setup with many gems. 1 dps had full dungeon gear just like the tank and the healer.

I highly doubt there hasnt been a hidden nerf to this. I feel like ive done cms too many times to not feel the difference. The dmg, the hp - everything seems to be decreased.

Would be awesome if a blue-bud could answer this

[Deleted]

Getting your FoS before 5.1/5.2 just makes you all the more winsome I guess.

[Nuckels]

-SNIPPED-

Not to be rude, but you do honestly believe if they lowered the HP of bosses in CM's no one woulda noticed by now and done a comparison on the values?

[Deleted]

Hit / expertise is no more scaled down.

[Deleted]

Not to be rude, but you do honestly believe if they lowered the HP of bosses in CM's no one woulda noticed by now and done a comparison on the values?

well i have to assume that u havent tried cms with equal gear/setup post 5.2 and compared the difference. Ive done them several times, and i know the time marks for every boss and it goes faster now. So there are only 2 explanations to this.

1, 5.2 for classes made a huge difference in cms.
2, something has been nerfed.

Lets say they didnt reduce the HP of bosses/mobs, which i personaly dont think they did. Maybe they reduced the dmg the mobs dealt? Thats not easy to messsure, to not say impossible. Having a group where the incoming dmg is low puts everyone in a more offensive role, including the healer. I know from experience that we played certain instances very carefully due to the fact taht we've gotten close to one shotted in previous tries, somethign we didnt have to think of when we raced through them post 5.2.

I promise u that everyone u ask agrees that even with the exact same gear, CMS are so much easier now then prio to the 5.2 patch.

[Nuckels]

well i have to assume that u havent tried cms with equal gear/setup post 5.2 and compared the difference. Ive done them several times, and i know the time marks for every boss and it goes faster now. So there are only 2 explanations to this.

1, 5.2 for classes made a huge difference in cms.
2, something has been nerfed.

Lets say they didnt reduce the HP of bosses/mobs, which i personaly dont think they did. Maybe they reduced the dmg the mobs dealt? Thats not easy to messsure, to not say impossible. Having a group where the incoming dmg is low puts everyone in a more offensive role, including the healer. I know from experience that we played certain instances very carefully due to the fact taht we've gotten close to one shotted in previous tries, somethign we didnt have to think of when we raced through them post 5.2.

I promise u that everyone u ask agrees that even with the exact same gear, CMS are so much easier now then prio to the 5.2 patch.

Actually i have, and all the HP values are the same, i notice i take less damage but thats simply because stuff melts quicker due to more gems on gear etc as stated previously.

[jearle]

Even using the same gear 5.2 buffed a lot of classes, just to use one example if your CM group had an elemental shaman they are a great deal more effective at cleave now which makes trash in CMs die alot quicker, as well as the lbolt buff makde their single target damage increase.

The dungeons themselves are no different in my experience, the class changes and gear improvements have lessened them a bit, they still are nowhere near faceroll.

[Ampere]

I've done them all pre 5.2 and post 5.2 on different characters, they just get easier when you know what to do. Some class buffs and gear with more gems help too, but you can still do them all just fine in 463s with gems/enchants.

Ele shamans for example were already very strong for CMs, and 5.2 buffed chain lightning a lot making them even stronger.

[Deleted]

Even using the same gear 5.2 buffed a lot of classes, just to use one example if your CM group had an elemental shaman they are a great deal more effective at cleave now which makes trash in CMs die alot quicker, as well as the lbolt buff makde their single target damage increase.

The dungeons themselves are no different in my experience, the class changes and gear improvements have lessened them a bit, they still are nowhere near faceroll.

ye i guess this is the answer. I would never imagine 5.2 to affect cms this much tho