5.3 The end of PVP?

[Wildtree]

Some of us don't want to fight boring, scripted bosses to be competitive in pvp.

pvp and pve gear progression should be kept separate. However, as of 5.3 pve gear is going to be so much ridiculously better in pvp that I forsee a mass exodus of pvp players from the game.

Everything is scripted. Your class, the classes you face, everything is scripted. The BG's the Arenas.... all the same, in some case for several years already. Scripted classes and specs clash in scripted locations...
There really isn't much difference.

Truth of the matters.....
There are 2 key elements which makes a certain group of players butt-hurt now.
1. The ones that used the pathetically easy possibility to gear up in BGs and use that gear to get into current tier raiding... Not gonna happen anymore...
2. The ones that don't agree with the other large group of PVP'ers who claim for years that gear shouldn't matter in PVP. It's a step in the right direction.

For all it needs is to wait and see how it develops.

[Baracuda]

Other than WPvP and PvP sockets I can understand every change so far.

[Veliane]

Scaling is irrelevant since conquest gear will be scaled down too. Understand?

Scaling will play a role, it will make PvE gear slightly worse on it's own, but what blizzard hasn't foreseen (even though it's right in front of them) is that it'll be much better thru bonuses.

They'll eventually patch a shitty solution to it and break everything else.

Not actual numbers but roughly.

493 PvP vs 541 PvE
1000 stre 1700 stre
2700 stam 2700 stam
600 crit 1k haste
600 haste 1k mastery
2 sockets 2 sockets
500 power
500 res

This in any instanced Pvp will be.

493 PvP vs 493 PvE
1000 stre 1000 stre
2700 stam 2000 stam
600 crit 600 haste
600 haste 600 mastery
2 sockets 2 sockets
500 power

PvE gear seems to be slightly worse, weapon wise PVE will be king again (which is against their 'design') and the only way this could work is if they turn off set bonuses of PvE tiers in instanced PvP cause lacking 700 stam VS doing a full Holy damage TV............... yeah, "shut up and take my stamina".

It's pretty hideous still, any pvp outside bgs and arenas its a crushing defeat to common sense, vanilla 3.0.

[Lulbalance]

1) Resilience made baseline and removed from pvp gear.
2) Meanwhile, PvP power nerfed to the point that main stat > pvp power.

main stat > pvp power for most dps classes as it is..i think int return is like almost 2:1

the world isnt going to end.. patch hasn't even dropped yet ffs.

[Nihilostromrage]

I'm not really worried about it, previously I would've lost to players with Elite gear because they were better, now if I lose to someone in Heroic gear it's because they're better.

^&^ amen to that.

..... and stop worrying. This is one patch to help people catch up and it wont be so bad. If they do truly do away with PvP gear as it was suggested, that would be tragic but I doubt Blizz has that in mind.

[Korgoth]

The only change in gear progression is the lack of T2 weapon. It's 1 item lost here. Get over it.

[Dumaw]

I don't agree with the road they´re taking too, if that leads to the end of gear farming for PvP

Gear progression is a big part of this game, pve or pvp wise, it has always been. Now what? You just lvl to 90 and go face in equal terms someone that been through hell getting his points, progressing, and then finally getting that feeling of accomplishment from getting the best set?

Yes, pvp is about skills, but its about gear too, just like pve is about both. Why don't they all give equal stats to all raiders and the ones with better skills will get the best achievements... I bet that wouldn't be so much fun would it?

[Tyrean]

Sockets count against item level distribution. PvP Power/Resilience does not count against item level distribution.

PvP gear of equal level to PvE gear will be better for PvP barring some set bonuses. Overall they are just opening up the avenues to gearing and equalizing it. I don't mind being able to run LFR on my alts to gear faster in PvP...

[Coldhearth]

main stat > pvp power for most dps classes as it is..i think int return is like almost 2:1

the world isnt going to end.. patch hasn't even dropped yet ffs.

Not currently. PvP power, due to how it works, is the best stat for pvp at the moment. Go visit any site (arena junkies, noxxic, icy-veins) and see the numbers.

And also, we know the patch isn't out yet. We are speculating here. Thats what discussion forums are for, correct?

[Ebonheart]

As for me no more gear progression in pvp is the second worst mistake Blizzard could do, the absolute worst being never developing a Spectator mode.

Players play for gear progression in PVE as well as PVP. Gear sets that are only differentiated by their looks may be interesting to gear for once but I really don't think the incentive is big enough for pvp in the long term and I fear than after a few weeks the number of pvp players will significantly dive.

In addition, seeing how pve trinkets have been OP in pvp despite their nerfing, I think it won't be long before pve heroes just walk on pvp geared players. Blizzard has such a terrible track record on this that most tournaments ended up forbidding the use of pve gear.

I am really curious how many players agree or on the contrary find that a single gear set statwise was the way to go.

Lemme tell you, no one plays PVP for the gear. They play PVP at first to get the gear to then ROFLSTOMP the PVE scrubs and feel good about themselves.

The only reason people PVP, is the highly competitive nature of the game where you actually go against other players rather than an automated AI as in PVE.

[ipoststuff]

I dont think PvP is balanced (when was it ever really?) but this expension its only gotten better with patches. Expansion started with broken warrior,hunter,chaos wave, frost bomb now it's less broken. By the last patch it might be acually good.

[Taoforums]

I would personally like to die because someone outskills me rather than out gearing me.

/end of thread

[Airwaves]

Oh O! You might have to use skill to win a pvp fight!

[slipn]

As for me no more gear progression in pvp is the second worst mistake Blizzard could do, the absolute worst being never developing a Spectator mode.

Players play for gear progression in PVE as well as PVP. Gear sets that are only differentiated by their looks may be interesting to gear for once but I really don't think the incentive is big enough for pvp in the long term and I fear than after a few weeks the number of pvp players will significantly dive.

In addition, seeing how pve trinkets have been OP in pvp despite their nerfing, I think it won't be long before pve heroes just walk on pvp geared players. Blizzard has such a terrible track record on this that most tournaments ended up forbidding the use of pve gear.

I am really curious how many players agree or on the contrary find that a single gear set statwise was the way to go.

Uh not sure about you but when I max my gear in arena I keep playing and am actually happy I can take losses and not simply say "well shit they out geared me"

This is a good thing.

[Count Zero]

PVP will be about skill and not time played. This is actually the beginning of PVP.

[Yvaelle]

1) Resilience made baseline and removed from pvp gear.
2) Meanwhile, PvP power nerfed to the point that main stat > pvp power.

Therefore, if pvp gear has no base resilience AND pvp power is worse than a main stat (intel, agil, str)... then what purpose does pvp gear serve? Absolutely none.

It's like they're trying to make pve gear better in pvp on purpose.

Wouldn't be surprised in pvp gear was phased out entirely for the next expansion. It's the route they're headed anyway.

PvE gear is going to be way worse in PvP than it is now. The power / resilience changes are relatively minor - the real nerf is the item level cap - the best item level you will be allowed to have is Conquest gear: which has the same stats (main stat, haste, crit, mastery, etc) as PvE gear of the same item level, but without the Power/Resilience/PvP set bonuses, on-use trinket, trinket effect.

The benefit of wearing PvE gear in PvP right now, is that you can wear 541 gear in terms of DPS stats (or even just 522 gear, as we saw with the Shado-Pan trinkets) while your opponent is wearing something ~30 or 50 or even 70 item levels below you (541 vs 476): you can be an entire Expansion ahead of someone in terms of main stats right now. 476 honor gear vs 416 pve gear from Dragon Soul is actually less than the gap between 476 honor gear and the 541 PvE trinkets we will start seeing soon.

As soon as you place a cap on item level that makes it so you can only gain a Conquest piece worth of main stats at most, the added (free item levels) of PvP Power and Resilience become head and shoulders better than pretty much any equivalent PvE item - since PvE items don't have Power on them. Are you really going to give your PvP set bonuses and 35% damage (via Power) for your PvE set bonuses? No way, most PvE set bonuses work out to a 2-5% DPS upgrade (and the 5% ones usually get nerfed).

There are two results of the 5.3 changes:

1) In a world where you can only gain as much main stat as your 496 Conquest Item provides, whether your item has Power on it becomes the most important factor for DPS or Healing.

2) PvE'rs will have more survivability when getting ganked by PvP-geared (high Power) Rogues, but will deal significantly less damage to the Rogue than the Rogue would deal to them: meaning the PvE'r will have to find shelter/backup or significantly outplay their ganker to survive/win, but won't automatically lose (die instantly) for wearing the wrong gear.

---------- Post added 2013-05-08 at 11:24 PM ----------

PVP will be about skill and not time played. This is actually the beginning of PVP.

We are moving in that direction, it's certainly promising - but I wouldn't say we are there yet.

[Damax]

Scaling will play a role, it will make PvE gear slightly worse on it's own, but what blizzard hasn't foreseen (even though it's right in front of them) is that it'll be much better thru bonuses.

They'll eventually patch a shitty solution to it and break everything else.

Not actual numbers but roughly.

493 PvP vs 541 PvE
1000 stre 1700 stre
2700 stam 2700 stam
600 crit 1k haste
600 haste 1k mastery
2 sockets 2 sockets
500 power
500 res

This in any instanced Pvp will be.

493 PvP vs 493 PvE
1000 stre 1000 stre
2700 stam 2000 stam
600 crit 600 haste
600 haste 600 mastery
2 sockets 2 sockets
500 power

PvE gear seems to be slightly worse, weapon wise PVE will be king again (which is against their 'design') and the only way this could work is if they turn off set bonuses of PvE tiers in instanced PvP cause lacking 700 stam VS doing a full Holy damage TV............... yeah, "shut up and take my stamina".

It's pretty hideous still, any pvp outside bgs and arenas its a crushing defeat to common sense, vanilla 3.0.

yeah I can see op set bonus becoming a problem. but pve gear won't be better than pvp gear. all gear will be scaled down so that heroic raiders don't have advantages over normal pvpers in bgs/arena.

PVP power is a free stat also on weapons which makes you more powerful against players and increase your heals

Pvp power gems will be garbage so you will actually have to gem Str/agi/intel or crit/hast/mastery (good change it was stupidly retarded that power and resil > everything all the time no need to know your stats weight for your class back then)

the exemple I quoted is spot on what is gonna happen. the only difference is that heroic raiders might be stronger in WORLD PVP (which should be called gank pvp)

I could careless about world pvp though, its never fair and they always have more friend than me!

I repeat a pvp 496 piece will have the same str/agi/intel as a 560 Ilevel siege of orgrimmar heroic piece in instance pvp.

I think it removes one weird thing though having to equip pvp gear to do pve content (quests)

[Baracuda]

Not actual numbers but roughly.

493 PvP vs 541 PvE
1000 stre 1700 stre
2700 stam 2700 stam
600 crit 1k haste
600 haste 1k mastery
2 sockets 2 sockets
500 power
500 res

This in any instanced Pvp will be.

493 PvP vs 493 PvE
1000 stre 1000 stre
2700 stam 2000 stam
600 crit 600 haste
600 haste 600 mastery
2 sockets 2 sockets
500 power

Why would PvE gear have less stamina after and equal before? PvE gear has WAY more stamina before instanced and equal after. The PvP set's ~11k PvP power will be what differeniates the 2 armor sets, I believe.

2) PvE'rs will have more survivability when getting ganked by PvP-geared (high Power) Rogues, but will deal significantly less damage to the Rogue than the Rogue would deal to them: meaning the PvE'r will have to find shelter/backup or significantly outplay their ganker to survive/win, but won't automatically lose (die instantly) for wearing the wrong gear.

Everything you posted was true except this, have you actually played the PTR? PvE gear, normal PvE gear, is better than PvP gear in every way except healing for classes without a heal spec.

[Yvaelle]

Regarding the claim that PvE weapons will be better than PvP weapon: No. Your spellpower (for casters), weapon damage (for melee) and stats all scale down to 496 item level right?

Let's say you take Bo-Ris, Horror in the Night into Arenas and are fighting an equally geared opponent who is wielding Tyrannical Gladiator's Decapitator.

Bo-Ris, Horror in the Night becomes EXACTLY the same stats as Tyrannical Gladiator's Decapitator, same weapon damage / DPS, same primary and secondary stats. With two very very important caveats. Bo-ris keeps the gem slot, which isn't worth much. Decapitator keeps the 6200 PvP Power it has on it. 6200 PvP Power is worth like, 7% more damage on all attacks - or roughly the same DPS gain as ~35-40 item levels in terms of weapon damage scaling. This is why a 496 PvP weapon right now is worth more than a 522 PvE weapon. The result is that Bo-Ris, Horror in the Night becomes a 496 weapon with an extra gem socket, while Tyrannical Gladiator's Decapitator is functionally an item level 530-535 weapon when used against another player.

PvE weapons in PvP will be absolute garbage in 5.3 - you will be better off using 476 honor weapons (and gear, and trinkets, and set pieces) than you will using all but potentially Legendaries (of which none currently exist), and if you use a Legendary it won't be for the weapon damage or stats - it will be for some permitted-to-be-OP-because-Legendary proc: and it would have to be something like Soul Reaper or Tarecgosa to even consider it.

[apepi]

Um...right now among the top rated people are already tyran in all gear, with nothing else to get(my monk is). So progression is not only a problem in 5.3, but now.