Mastery in 10m Heroic

[Caeth]

We're going to be starting 10m heroics, so I'm asking how much mastery should be good to counter the harder hitting bosses? I believe the strat is to start with Jin'rokh then go to Ji'Kun.

Now, I know it's not as necessary as in 25m, but, like in a previous post I've made, I'm having a hard time giving up aggro with my 42% crit lol. So I might as well switch some to mastery in order to help with progression.

I have 7k haste/ascension/~10k crit. have 2 pc but not 4pc yet.

[Nalloa]

I'm only in normal modes, but I'm pretty sure you're going to hear a whole lot of "7k haste is too much" especially with ascension. But who knows, maybe people will surprise me. A lot of H progression raiders I am seeing in both 10 and 25 are sitting between 5 and 5.5k haste. That extra haste reforged alone will help greatly increase your mastery.

[gynshon]

I'm only in normal modes, but I'm pretty sure you're going to hear a whole lot of "7k haste is too much" especially with ascension. But who knows, maybe people will surprise me. A lot of H progression raiders I am seeing in both 10 and 25 are sitting between 5 and 5.5k haste. That extra haste reforged alone will help greatly increase your mastery.

There is ZERO reason to go mastery in 10m heroics. Zero, Zip, Nada, Zilch, Nein, No reason whatsoever.

5-6k haste, exp to whatever you feel comfortable with, rest crit.

[Zaxus]

I can understand why people like Crit over Mastery due to EB and 2pT15. However, I don't really understand why people value Haste over Mastery, especially once you get 4pT15. You can keep up shuffle with no haste, and Mastery does increase your survivability.

What's with the haste love? Just dps? EH spamming in emergencies?

I went Mastery for progression on heroic Iron Qon and just stuck with it for the farm content. Seems really nice for big hitters like Talon Rake, I felt much less likely to be jibbed. Perhaps I'll go back to my Crit spec for my next Iron Qon attempts and see if it feels any different.

[Solial]

Iron qon and talon rakes don't really hit hard though, most of ji-kun's damage will come from unlucky rng and getting high stacks of the dot.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

We have a monk tank (I'm monk heal), and he went full mastery for horridon hc, due to spikey damage. It did help. you may be taking a bit more dmg overall, but less spikes, which is preferable.
little "extreme-case" comparison:
having base stagger, base mastery, mastery buff, shuffle up and a minimum amount (lets say 2k) of mastery on gear puts you up to about 50% staggered damage.
now the other guy, that goes for a max mastery build could maybe land at 12k (for the sake of simplicity) which is about 10% more stagger.
taking 40% damage instead of 50%, is a fucking 20% less damage you take per hit. That is defenetly noticeable.
you will take more damage overall, but as soon as you have 4pc, you can Purify much more often, and some that extra staggered dmg can be mitigated.
(during 2pc mastery buff, the dmg you take is decreased by even 26% with a mastery build)

if you have problems getting insta-gibbed, and it is not a execution error (healers not precasting heals, you not having CDs up etc) then you might want to try a full mastery build and see if it helps. Feel free to switch back to crit if you don't like it, but I would try it to see for yourself.

little additional thought: you taking overall more damage does not mean healers have to spend more mana to heal you. having to heal spikes with flashheals cost a lot of mana. maybe even more than doing a bit more constant, regular, unspiky healing.

[Yonie]

Haha, you should've specified you were talking about tanks. I spent almost a minute wondering why MW would go mastery

[Zaxus]

Iron qon and talon rakes don't really hit hard though, most of ji-kun's damage will come from unlucky rng and getting high stacks of the dot.

I felt like it helped on iron qon even with just high impale stacks, but ya know I never tried it with anything but a high mastery build. Healers said I wasn't hard to heal so I just stuck with it, perhaps it would not have mattered if I was Crit instead.

Now we started on Horridon, how can Mastery not be useful there? I've heard he hits ridiculously hard after War God dies.

And still, why haste over mastery as a second priority?

[Ampere]

In my opinion for 10 man heroic progression you should take hit to 7.5%, expertise to 15%, stack crit > mastery >> haste. Since they made the level 30 talents not cost chi you don't really need extra haste anymore, especially with free purifies from the 4 piece.

Haste is one of the stats that could vary by person, if you don't feel comfortable without a certain haste level then go for it.

[gynshon]

I felt like it helped on iron qon even with just high impale stacks, but ya know I never tried it with anything but a high mastery build. Healers said I wasn't hard to heal so I just stuck with it, perhaps it would not have mattered if I was Crit instead.

Now we started on Horridon, how can Mastery not be useful there? I've heard he hits ridiculously hard after War God dies.

And still, why haste over mastery as a second priority?

I have written 7 different responses to this thread, and each time it came off as elitist. Again, there is zero reason to go mastery in a 10m environment. You are better served with a crit/haste build across the board. The one thing I will say, damn if it's elitist or not is this:

Going mastery in 10m just masks your healers shortcomings and doesn't help to improve them as players, or the raid as a whole.

[Caeth]

ok zero reason is a bit harsh. it does smooth out damage. and my crit is harmful if I'm about to pull aggro even with jab/BoK.....so I might as well have some mastery.

[Artaius]

For Horridon heroic, I've switched to the stam enchants/meta gem, and it helped quite a lot, increasing my health by ~95k. Once we get more comfortable with it, I'll most likely switch back. It was a personal decision of mine to switch, and although I think I could still do it with the normal crit/agi enchants, it allowed room for error and made our attempts more consistent.

[Solial]

I went with a mastery build for our first horridon kill or two, but that was before I had 2pc. The extra uptime you get on elusive brew and staggering will more than make up for the mastery. One of the reasons crit is so much better than mastery right now is because not only does it give you extra damage (extra raid shields), but it gives you more elusive brew AND staggering now. The staggering is what really makes crit very good. If you don't have 2pc, go ahead and get some mastery if you want, specially for a fight like horridon heroic. But as Genshin said (At least after you get 2pc, and it's better to get a monk tank their 2pc before anyone else), in 10 man heroic you will never need to go for a mastery build, this tier.

At, Zaxus, Iron Qon's bleed doesn't do that much damage to begin with, he really doesn't do a lot of damage at all. I stoneform off my stacks in phase 1 just because there is a lot of raid damage in this phase, but after that I don't clear my stacks until the 3rd dog is around 30% hp. Near the very end, if you haven't cleared your stacks (5+ stacks with the boss buff) then it might be bad because everyone is taking a lot of damage at that point.

Also, I can take 8 stacks of ji-kun's talon rake on heroic 10 without a problem, unless I got like 6 stacks of the dot because for some ungodly reason i didn't dodge/parry once with 80% avoidance for 6 melee swings in a row.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wp...?s=3952&e=4493 Iron Qon log, 97.1% shuffle up time, 43.6% elusive brew uptime, 38.7% staggering uptime.

[Zonex]

There is zero reason to go Mastery in a 10man. All increasing your mastery serves to do in a 10man setting is increase the margin of error for which you can screw up. The price for that however is that you are lowering your dps and thus hindering your raid.

Now, if you want to be responsible for criplling your raid for your own inaptitude, go for mastery, np. However, going into hc progression with that kind of mindset will not get you too far. Some fights are heavy gear and DPS checks, be ready.

On another note, a lot of people try to advocate having haste at a certain level. Whilst to some degree, this is a necessity for some, it is more than anything a placebo effect. A placebo effect instilled into your brains because it has been the "right" and "comfortable" thing to do since the get go. You do not NEED haste at all to play a BrM properly, especially with the t15 4set.

Haste is a smaller, diminshed version of Mastery, as it allows you to get out of emergency situations without forethought. What makes it better than Mastery is the fact that it contributes to EB generation and overall dps (1/3 the efficiency as crit). However, it also follows logic thatif you know a bad situation is coming you can switch from low pool usage to high pool usage (keep your energy at 80 iinstead of 40). It should be done anyway, but it is a skill that diminshes the value of Haste completely relative to crit.

I for one, stack crit and only crit, and it has done nothing but great things for me. The only boss that was MAYBE an issue for haste was Ra-den, which i did with 3k haste, and that was only because i prompted to take CW instead of ZS which meant healers had to spend a bit more time on the raid than me. It also meant Desperate Measures kept resetting the CD. However, the entire thing was still doable because i kept my energy high, and I never needed to use 2 EH's in a row, because 1 EH does about 70% of your hp averaged with 50% crit.

If you can tweak your playstyle to capitalize on the stat budget, you are inherently increasing the capacity of your class and the 1 spot you bring to your raid. WinWin

[Alucin]

How many healers are people doing heroics with?

I'm led to believe that our raid using 2 on progression isn't particularly normal.
I'm mastery atm just trying it, and like the op, completely threat capped anyway. it did seem useful on iron qon so far, but an extra 10-20k per tick might not make a huge difference.

[Solial]

How many healers are people doing heroics with?

I'm led to believe that our raid using 2 on progression isn't particularly normal.
I'm mastery atm just trying it, and like the op, completely threat capped anyway. it did seem useful on iron qon so far, but an extra 10-20k per tick might not make a huge difference.

You're not taking crit for threat, you're taking it because it's the stat that increases your survivability that most. It also increases your damage, your healing, and your raid shields from your statue. As far as healers go, it depends on the fight.
Boss Healers
1 3
2 2
3 3
4 2
5 3
6 3
7 2
8 3
9 2
10 3
11 3
Still not on lei shen heroic.

[Alucin]

Doesn't provide that much survivability tho if you can't auto-attack.

[Halifax]

I have written 7 different responses to this thread, and each time it came off as elitist. Again, there is zero reason to go mastery in a 10m environment. You are better served with a crit/haste build across the board. The one thing I will say, damn if it's elitist or not is this:

Going mastery in 10m just masks your healers shortcomings and doesn't help to improve them as players, or the raid as a whole.

If you want it to not come off as elitist, try actually explaining your argument beyond "I'm right and you're bad".

[Yohassakura]

How many healers are people doing heroics with?

I'm led to believe that our raid using 2 on progression isn't particularly normal.
I'm mastery atm just trying it, and like the op, completely threat capped anyway. it did seem useful on iron qon so far, but an extra 10-20k per tick might not make a huge difference.

It's basically 2 or 3 healers depending on the encounter, but you can do some with either amount.

I think we've done Jinrok'h with 2 and 3 healers, Horridon with 3 (doable with 2), Tortos 3, Ji-kun 3, Iron Qon 3. Sucks when people are away so you can't raid, or can't try with 2 healers (none of the healers have a good offspec set afaik).

Durumu you might "need" to go to 2 healers, but the rest you can 3 heal, assuming you have enough DPS / the right raid composition.

[Zonex]

Jin'Rokh - 2 (3)
Horridon - 2
Council - 3
Tortos - 2
Megaera - 3
Jikun - 2
Durumu - 2
Primo - 2 (3)
Dark Animus - 2 (3)
Qon - 2 (3)
Twins - 2 (3)
Lei Shen - 2
Ra-den - 3 (2)