One's loss might be another's gain

[Snakehead]

So a game that shall not be named lost a fairly substantial amount of players recently and with the mass exodus from that game does anyone else think the green and free pastures of swtor might attract some of these potential players?

Please don't degenerate this into game vs game keep it to discussions about whether swtor can increase it's player base.

Personally I think the free aspect of this game can capture some of those players maybe not a large number but I think we can expect swtor to have fuller servers soon.

[Deleted]

Those who flocked from WoW were mostly in the east, I don't see them joining SW:TOR.
SW:TOR is free to play pretty much, and their reputation for providing customer support and end game is, honestly, trash.

So the answer to your question is no, I don't think people will fly from WoW to SW:TOR. They havn't really got anything new to offer to attract such a crowd.

[Deleted]

A large part of that amount were Chinese users (who also make up a huge part of the total current subscriber base) and I don't think they care too much about SWTOR.

WoW's massive subscriber base is a myth, considering that Chinese users have a different payment scheme based on time spent. And those are counted among monthly subscriptions.

[Deleted]

I doubt SWTOR will see a significant bump. After all it's not really that different from WoW.

And people don't quit a game after so many years because of the subscription.


I assume most people who left over the past 3 months did so because they were simply tiered of the game and MMOs in general. They probably won't pursue a new MMO for a while.

[Schattenlied]

Nope, not for me anyways, I'd rather play Neverwinter... I didn't like SWTOR.

I quit WoW about 3 months ago... I had been playing since mid beta, that's a long time on one game, just got old, had nothing to do with the subscription fee.

[Odegon]

I think we can expect swtor to have fuller servers soon.

atm at red eclipse server there are more than 2000 players at lvl 51 or higher is online. Considering that we are not at prime time yet we will need new servers for ex-wow players.

Note: those are paying customers.

[Sithbad]

I left WOW a little under 3 months ago, and ressurected the swtor account I had collecting dust. I bought the game on release and played it up until level 13 then quit because how under par I thought the game was in comparison to WOW. Well now I am a level 43 Juggernaut, have not yet experienced end game content but so far doing flashpoints I can tell there is really hardly a difference.

The reason I left WoW permanently for SWTOR is the lore/story behind the game. In wow you got to fight the burning legion, stop a god from destroying the planet, team up to kill one of the most hated villains in wow (arthas) and then finally prevent utter destruction from a crazy dragon. Then.. Pandas.. random bosses that we cannot connect with or really care about killing. Now in SWTOR, I LOVE the story line for my sith warrior, I chose to go full dark side and go w/ Jaesa. Sometimes the Dark Side choices are difficult to make, which makes it all the more fun. For example when you team up with Jedi Timms.. man I wanted to let him go and taint my progression with some Light Side points.. you don't get that kind of adrenaline from wow. My fear is what happens when I get to Max level and the story ends.. endless alts? I dont think that will be enough to keep my interest, but we shall see.

[Deleted]

I'm a long time WoW player, played from Vanilla but haven't touched it since before the latest expansion was released.

There's nothing wrong with the game and those new to MMO's will find a lot to do and keep occupied by.

I left due to being bored with the game as I'd done it all and the new content just seemed rehashed come CATA.

@ Sithbad - If you like raiding then it can be fun. It's certainly not as taxing to plat compared to WoW, so those looking for an increase in challenge won't find it here. But generally the attitude of players is good and more relaxed than compared to our WoW cousins.

What most attracts me to SWTOR is it has the holy trinity and end game. But it's less time consuming than WoW and I don't feel like I'm nerfing myself for not doing my weekly/daily achievements.

If you are a seasoned PvE WoW player then expect yourself to do well at end game. Gearing up isn't a problem and there are plenty of guilds out there looking for all classes, be it a tank, healer or DPS.

SWTOR is a game still in development though, gone are the massive/mulititude of bugs in raids, however it doesn't have all the bells and whistles like WoW but has all the basic ones you will need to get the job done.

Only things I really miss from WoW are Summoning Stones and my Archaelology AQ40 styled mount.

[Deleted]

I'm amazed this thread hasn't been closed already.
On the subject of server populations in SWTOR, they've been fine since the server merges last summer. If they had done the merges a few months earlier BW/EA would probably have saved themselves a couple of hundred thousand subs. As things are I think the SWTOR population will probably creep up very slowly for a little while and level out, mostly due to a slightly more positive feel about the game recently rather than the goings on in other MMOs.
Can't comment on WoW (and don't really want to) as I haven't played for a long long time.

[Deleted]

Those who flocked from WoW were mostly in the east, I don't see them joining SW:TOR.
SW:TOR is free to play pretty much, and their reputation for providing customer support and end game is, honestly, trash.

So the answer to your question is no, I don't think people will fly from WoW to SW:TOR. They havn't really got anything new to offer to attract such a crowd.

Do you even play SWTOR?! - Customer Support is far from bad, atleast not in my experience. And a short visit to /r/swtor shows lots of examples of good customer support. When it comes to end game, I highly disagree that is trash as well. They are pushing out new content more frequently than Blizzard has ever done, but of course; if you mean JUST raids (operations) and new warzones, then no. Its still really not trash. SWTOR attracts Star Wars fans and lots of roleplayers... That is their niche, not hardcore raiders who slings unsupported facts and claims around.

I am a roleplayer, and I left WoW because of the catering to keep people busy, instead of pushing out quality content. Bioware is going the directly opposite direction of Blizzard, constantly working on "quality of life"-perks, that caters to people who values quality over quantity. If Blizzard would have pushed out actually quality content a long time ago, I dont think the situation would have been any different now. But Blizzard always preferred PvE'ers and PvP'ers before RP'ers, and I think that cut off a lot of people. - This is however not a bad financial decision! There are a lot more subscribers in PvE and PvP, than there will ever be in RP. RPers was just the minority that was gutted, because it demands a lot more attention and resources, than PvP and PvE does. And its not even a fraction of the playerbase. A wise decision from Blizzard, that I think Bioware is enjoying now. But this also means that SWTOR will never challenge WoW on other aspects, but RP!

I love Star Wars, but I am a huge WoW lore fan! I loved Warcraft 3, and if Blizzard would have updated the playermodels, given playerhousing (as promised countless of times...), a larger array of emotes, animations, etc. I would have stayed! And I think a lot of other roleplayers would as well.

Just my thoughts.

[philefluxx]

LOL!!!!!!!!!

Of all games out there why in the hell would the masses flock to SWTOR? Seriously, SWTOR will never be what it should have been and we all know it.

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 03:02 PM ----------

atm at red eclipse server there are more than 2000 players at lvl 51 or higher is online. Considering that we are not at prime time yet we will need new servers for ex-wow players.

Note: those are paying customers.

How exactly do you know this? Especially the subbing part?

[notorious98]

Do you even play SWTOR?! - Customer Support is far from bad, atleast not in my experience.

And, in my experience, it's been good and bad. But all of that is anecdotal. From what I've heard from others, there are plenty of horror stories to go around.

When it comes to end game, I highly disagree that is trash as well. They are pushing out new content more frequently than Blizzard has ever done, but of course; if you mean JUST raids (operations) and new warzones, then no. Its still really not trash.

This, just simply, isn't true. I don't want to degenerate this into a game v. game (or company v. company) topic, but Blizzard has released more content in just the MoP expansion (minus content updates) than TOR has done since launch. That include Rise of the Hutt Cartel and everything that has come with it. Now, whether the content itself is trash is opinionated. Some love it, some hate it. But there is a dearth of endgame content outside of WZs, Ops, and FPs.

I am a roleplayer, and I left WoW because of the catering to keep people busy, instead of pushing out quality content. Bioware is going the directly opposite direction of Blizzard, constantly working on "quality of life"-perks, that caters to people who values quality over quantity.

I'm sorry, but this comment is without merit. TOR has not "constantly" worked on QoL perks. They just finally introduced a barbershop which has been in MMOs for years now. The only thing they have really given anybody are emotes. Other than that, every toon is exactly the same. If you're such an RPer, how could you possibly triumph their QoL perks when every toon is a humanoid with a different skin? No Jawas, no Wookies, no Trandoshans, etc. In my opinion, the lack of those player models is something that kills any kind of RP immersion I could get from this game. Also, where is the ability to sit on chairs?

given playerhousing (as promised countless of times...)

No they haven't. In fact, back in March of 2011, J. Allen Brack (WoW Producer) said that player housing would never see the light of day in WoW until there is a reason for players to have houses. The last "promise" they made was before the game even released. Since then it's been a slew of "we'd like to" statements.

OT : With most of the subs WoW lost being from the China region, they won't migrate to TOR simply because of the difficulty in obtaining the game. Last I heard, the official website is on the blocked list making access to the game's download very tough.

[Drakos]

How exactly do you know this? Especially the subbing part?

He didnt say subbing, he said paying, you cant be level 51 without Makeb so they have all paid at least $10-20.

[Deleted]

And, in my experience, it's been good and bad. But all of that is anecdotal. From what I've heard from others, there are plenty of horror stories to go around.

I came back from 6 months in Afghanistan to a hacked account. I left with an account booming with Naxx40 stuff, I even had the fucking Corrupted Ashbringer on my paladin... Blizzard couldnt do anything about it, despite my entire guild backing me up. Why? Because of technical limits. Customer Service horrorstories are plentiful, no matter what game, company or whatever you are dealing with. I played WoW for 7 years, I had my ups and downs with Blizzard customer support. But saying "CS is shit cause they didnt help me...", is not valid. Not saying that they did, but its my impression that that is what people is whining about. I have been declined by Bioware CS about my legacy name, and told it would be a future feature. It now is.

This, just simply, isn't true. I don't want to degenerate this into a game v. game (or company v. company) topic, but Blizzard has released more content in just the MoP expansion (minus content updates) than TOR has done since launch. That include Rise of the Hutt Cartel and everything that has come with it. Now, whether the content itself is trash is opinionated. Some love it, some hate it. But there is a dearth of endgame content outside of WZs, Ops, and FPs.

That really depends on what you define as endgame content. As elder game content, I think about stuff like dailies, reputation, collectables, roleplay options, events, flashpoints (heroics), operations (raids), warzones (battlegrounds), etc... And SWTOR has added a ton of that. Maybe Blizzard has released a mass of stuff to keep people busy, but its a fact that Bioware has added a lot of quality of life perks the recent year.

I'm sorry, but this comment is without merit. TOR has not "constantly" worked on QoL perks. They just finally introduced a barbershop which has been in MMOs for years now. The only thing they have really given anybody are emotes. Other than that, every toon is exactly the same. If you're such an RPer, how could you possibly triumph their QoL perks when every toon is a humanoid with a different skin? No Jawas, no Wookies, no Trandoshans, etc. In my opinion, the lack of those player models is something that kills any kind of RP immersion I could get from this game. Also, where is the ability to sit on chairs?

- Really?
- Mood settings
- Unique animations
- Cathar (new race)
- Litteraly a TON of unique armorsets
- Reputation armor/collectibles
- Dyeable armor (not the kind we hoped for, but its better than nothing)
- New hairstyles
- New customization options for Chiss and Miralan
I do agree that every character is a model with a different skin, and then again, no. There are still unique models like Pureblood and Twi'lekks, but again; Technical limitations. For every uniquelooking model they introduce, they need to mold EVERY armorpiece to them. I am more than satisfied with the 4 different bodytypes, and the mass of customization options given, because it gives you the chance to make a combination that is unique. I havent seen anyone looking like my character yet. In contrast to WoW; You are comparing it yourself now, and honestly... 1 Bodymodel, 8 different faces, some skin color and hairstyles, not to mention 8 races with models and customization options from 2004. Come on...
And you mention Jawas, Wookies and Trandoshians as playable characters; Do you seriously want to level a character from 1 to 55 listening to a wookie in every fucking dialog!? - They deliberately said; No races that was not able to speak basic! Which makes a lot of sense... Its a storydriven game, and people needs to be able to sit through and enjoy the dialogues without pulling an arm off.

No they haven't. In fact, back in March of 2011, J. Allen Brack (WoW Producer) said that player housing would never see the light of day in WoW until there is a reason for players to have houses. The last "promise" they made was before the game even released. Since then it's been a slew of "we'd like to" statements.

I have it mentioned as a future perk in my game manual from 2004 But enough about that, the reason for a house is not really the point. I feel like im talking to a PvP/PvE'er here, which is fair. And you could ask me why player housing is such an issue, cause you bloody well dont need one. Well, me neither. But I dont need a starship either, I could ride the fucking starbus saving the galaxy, but its a nice quality perk that gives a sense of "ownership". A place to roleplay, solve my craftingshit, banking, auctionhouse, etc... I usually use the GTN terminal, bank, mailbox, etc on my ship.

As I have mention many times on these boards, I dont believe SWTOR caters to the same targetgroup as WoW does. World of Warcraft offers A LOT more to a greater spectacle of people. SWTOR caters to roleplayers and fans of the lore. That means that instead of concentrating on new content respectful of the lore to the world, Blizzard introduces content that keeps people entertained. And they do that well, dont get me wrong. Pandas and pokemon was what people wanted, so that is what people got. But at the same time, the roleplayers was facepalming thinking; "Fuck no, not another deathknight invasion..." - And thats what it breaks down to when it comes to MMO's; You please two subscribers, and piss off a third. And thats where the third can either deal with it, or quit

[Keren]

LOL!!!!!!!!!
Of all games out there why in the hell would the masses flock to SWTOR? Seriously, SWTOR will never be what it should have been and we all know it.

that keeps me smiling I hope SWTOR will never be the mainstream mmo. It will just bring EA/Bioware into the position to still try to cater to the playerbase and dont get even more cocky. They have to try to entertain their customers and don't can relax to much :P

[Deleted]

http://webaligns.com/eabioware-cs-experience/

[Zdrasti]

The players who left wow already left wow. So if they would move onto other things, they likely already found those other things. It may be best look around for empirical evidence rather than presenting hypotheticals.

[notorious98]

I came back from 6 months in Afghanistan to a hacked account. I left with an account booming with Naxx40 stuff, I even had the fucking Corrupted Ashbringer on my paladin... Blizzard couldnt do anything about it, despite my entire guild backing me up. Why? Because of technical limits. Customer Service horrorstories are plentiful, no matter what game, company or whatever you are dealing with. I played WoW for 7 years, I had my ups and downs with Blizzard customer support. But saying "CS is shit cause they didnt help me...", is not valid. Not saying that they did, but its my impression that that is what people is whining about. I have been declined by Bioware CS about my legacy name, and told it would be a future feature. It now is.

This wasn't a discussion about Blizzard's customer support, it was about Bioware's. Don't turn it into a company v. company CS debate.

That really depends on what you define as endgame content. As elder game content, I think about stuff like dailies, reputation, collectables, roleplay options, events, flashpoints (heroics), operations (raids), warzones (battlegrounds), etc... And SWTOR has added a ton of that. Maybe Blizzard has released a mass of stuff to keep people busy, but its a fact that Bioware has added a lot of quality of life perks the recent year.

Collectibles? You mean like mounts and pets? There aren't many. Dailies are not "content", no matter if it's endgame/elder game (whatever you choose to call it) or not. As for QoL perks. Like I said, they are few. Especially for endgame.

- Really?
- Mood settings
- Unique animations
- Cathar (new race)
- Litteraly a TON of unique armorsets
- Reputation armor/collectibles
- Dyeable armor (not the kind we hoped for, but its better than nothing)
- New hairstyles
- New customization options for Chiss and Miralan

So cash shop items count as game additions for you? It doesn't for me or anybody else. Having to pay extra for something isn't a "perk". "Unique animations"? For who? You mean the one social ability that separates species? Other than that, there are no unique animations.

I do agree that every character is a model with a different skin, and then again, no. There are still unique models like Pureblood and Twi'lekks, but again; Technical limitations.

Technical limitations is a terrible excuse. Absolute awful. Also, Pureblood and Twi'leks are not unique. They have the same body type. The only difference is their facial features. Regardless, they are still the exact same models with different skins.

For every uniquelooking model they introduce, they need to mold EVERY armorpiece to them. I am more than satisfied with the 4 different bodytypes, and the mass of customization options given, because it gives you the chance to make a combination that is unique. I havent seen anyone looking like my character yet. In contrast to WoW; You are comparing it yourself now, and honestly... 1 Bodymodel, 8 different faces, some skin color and hairstyles, not to mention 8 races with models and customization options from 2004. Come on..

1 body model, a bunch of different faces, a bunch of different facial customizations......for EACH race. As opposed to 11 species with 4 different body models and, roughly, the same amount of faces and facial customizations. Also, the part that you quoted from me mentioned nothing about WoW. So, no, you're the only one comparing.

And you mention Jawas, Wookies and Trandoshians as playable characters; Do you seriously want to level a character from 1 to 55 listening to a wookie in every fucking dialog!? - They deliberately said; No races that was not able to speak basic! Which makes a lot of sense... Its a storydriven game, and people needs to be able to sit through and enjoy the dialogues without pulling an arm off.

Not particularly. I'm sure there are people who refuse to space bar, but there are a lot more people who will turn on the subtitles and blow through the dialogue without bothering to listen. ESPECIALLY when it comes to alien voice overs. I'm more willing to bet that they didn't keep certain species in the game simply due to their inability to mold armor to different body types. Case in point, Khem Val, Bowdaar, and Blizz.

I have it mentioned as a future perk in my game manual from 2004 But enough about that, the reason for a house is not really the point. I feel like im talking to a PvP/PvE'er here, which is fair. And you could ask me why player housing is such an issue, cause you bloody well dont need one. Well, me neither. But I dont need a starship either, I could ride the fucking starbus saving the galaxy, but its a nice quality perk that gives a sense of "ownership". A place to roleplay, solve my craftingshit, banking, auctionhouse, etc... I usually use the GTN terminal, bank, mailbox, etc on my ship.

Actually, I find Dimensions in Rift to be fun. But just because it's mentioned as a future perk in the game manual doesn't change the fact that it wasn't promised on numerous occasions.

As I have mention many times on these boards, I dont believe SWTOR caters to the same targetgroup as WoW does. World of Warcraft offers A LOT more to a greater spectacle of people. SWTOR caters to roleplayers and fans of the lore. That means that instead of concentrating on new content respectful of the lore to the world, Blizzard introduces content that keeps people entertained. And they do that well, dont get me wrong. Pandas and pokemon was what people wanted, so that is what people got. But at the same time, the roleplayers was facepalming thinking; "Fuck no, not another deathknight invasion..." - And thats what it breaks down to when it comes to MMO's; You please two subscribers, and piss off a third. And thats where the third can either deal with it, or quit

Here's the thing. TOR doesn't necessarily cater to the RP crowd. If there was a large RP crowd, you'd see a larger presence on RP servers. If anything, considering almost everything RP oriented is sold on the CM, they've found that the RP crowd is the crowd they can milk money out of the most. BW is most definitely catering to the PvE/PvP crowd. That's why new Ops, FPs, WZs, events, reps, etc. are given to subscribers for free while you have to pay for your emotes and "unique" animations.

[Kelimbror]

OP says to not turn this into a game vs game, starts by saying one game lost subs, can this game now claim them...oook. Basically this whole thread should have never happened then.

No, no SWTOR will not gain players because of this. The reasons people leave any game are varied and unpredictable on a large scale. The percentage of people who will go to another MMO is going to be less than 100%, but even at 100% that playerbase will be spread among all active MMOs and video games on the market. All of a sudden that mass of people is vastly diluted and nothing of merit.

Not to mention that a large percentage of people in WoW sub loss are always Asian players without access to some of the MMOs they could go to and many, many more Eastern MMOs they can. Even if WoW lost their entire playerbase tonight, you wouldn't notice anything worth honestly reporting about in any MMO.

[Deleted]

This wasn't a discussion about Blizzard's customer support, it was about Bioware's. Don't turn it into a company v. company CS debate.

Missed my point much? - Check out the link I supplied two posts up. Its just one of many. Claiming Bioware customer support is bad, just sounds stupid to me...

Collectibles? You mean like mounts and pets? There aren't many. Dailies are not "content", no matter if it's endgame/elder game (whatever you choose to call it) or not. As for QoL perks. Like I said, they are few. Especially for endgame.

How far was World of Warcraft one year after release? How far was RIFT? - The game is still very young, and far from complete... Which it will never be. WoW is not complete either, but it has a lot more features than SWTOR does. Its like you expect a one year old game, with half a million subscribers to be as contentful as a nineyearold game with 9million subscribers... Come on. I think the 6week plan for content works very well, and certainly adds flavour to endgame content.

So cash shop items count as game additions for you? It doesn't for me or anybody else. Having to pay extra for something isn't a "perk". "Unique animations"? For who? You mean the one social ability that separates species? Other than that, there are no unique animations.

Yes it does. I am given cartel coins each month I can spend at my leisure, I dont have to spend extra cash for anything. And with unique animations, I am referring to the now 8 different versions of dances, moodsettings that changes your facial expression, social abilities like /flourish, /scan, /backflip, /superflex, /datapad etc... Yes, we lack sitable chairs, but with this cadence I am sure it will come eventually. So yes, there are lots of animations that caters to roleplayers. If you want unique abilities that seperates species, go read lore and use your imagination.

Technical limitations is a terrible excuse. Absolute awful. Also, Pureblood and Twi'leks are not unique. They have the same body type. The only difference is their facial features. Regardless, they are still the exact same models with different skins.

- Its a terrible excuse!? - How about ".. it doesent give us more coins in out pocket, so fuck it!" - Cause that is the wave Blizzard has been riding for the past 7 years... Technical limitations can be overcome, and has been overcome by Bioware. And honestly again; they have the same bodytype, but its a lot better than a one bodytype orc, with 8 different faces and 3 facial bones. How do you think a standard computer would react to a capital world with 300 players, ALL with a completely unique set of customization equal to Skyrim? Its also allowed to think in logic terms here... All mass MMORPGs will have to sacrifice some sort of customization, in order not to fuck over every single player logging on.

1 body model, a bunch of different faces, a bunch of different facial customizations......for EACH race. As opposed to 11 species with 4 different body models and, roughly, the same amount of faces and facial customizations. Also, the part that you quoted from me mentioned nothing about WoW. So, no, you're the only one comparing.

For each 8yearold model... The eyes dont even blink! Its just a fucking pixel overlapping the eye! Yeah, I see how fucking vibrant the customizationoptions are.....

Not particularly. I'm sure there are people who refuse to space bar, but there are a lot more people who will turn on the subtitles and blow through the dialogue without bothering to listen. ESPECIALLY when it comes to alien voice overs. I'm more willing to bet that they didn't keep certain species in the game simply due to their inability to mold armor to different body types. Case in point, Khem Val, Bowdaar, and Blizz.

Of course that is the reason... Imagine the resources required to mold every single piece of armor to one race x 4. They wouldnt be doing anything else but making armor. But how do you think a wookie would look in a set of sith armor? Or a jawaa dressed as a god damn jedi consular! Again, logic...

Theres no point in continue arguing, because you are set on hating the game. What you see is a buffet table, that lacks dishes. Instead of rejoicing in what there is, you whine like all the hundreds of other spoiled brats, about the lack of fries when theres fucking pomme gratiné, or eating what there is. You act like you are entitled to a complete game, when in fact you arent entitled to anything... I bet if SWTOR was "perfect" in your eyes, there would still be enough shit to whine about. Its the whole debate all over again... "Theres not enough content", he says after powerleveling to 50, being the first to levelcap. I remember reading an article claiming, that the modern gamer was spoiled and selfentitled. And I couldnt agree more...

Enjoy the game for what it is... You might actually enjoy it