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  1. #21
    @Lohmar
    for me it seems you have a big problem that they did a homogenization of the buff system.
    it is better for raids that you have more options to get a buff in and it is no excuse anymore that a specific class is low in heal or damage
    you may have a problem with this but in my opinion it is a good thing even if it costs a 100% raid slot where you now have to fight for.

    totems are in my opinion still the uniqueness of shamans. thats combined with using elemental forces and spirits.
    the monk statue may look like a big totem but it is no totem. it is a totally other mechanic. you may have another opinion. but this is my.
    we may lost a lot of unique buffs due the buff homogenization but a shaman still brings a lot of buffs to a raid especially enhancer and elemental.
    we still have the haste buff. we lost crit buff but got mastery for that. and we still bring heroism to the table. often you see lfm shaman or mage for bloodlust.
    are we the winners of the new buff system? no. are we the big loosers? yes if it was important for you to be the only person that brings a specific buff. else no because we still are one of the class with the most buffs.

    it is not true that back in "good all time" all totems were situational. we had a skill which put down 4 totems at once for a reason. you always had buff totems down. the only variant was "do I set melee or spell haste and do I have to bringt the earth totem". and after that it was the same totem setup all raid long.
    if this means situational for you we have a different meaning of it.
    the posin/deseas totem was situational for me. like tremor totem still is. as an example.

    and once again I prefer the current system where buff totems are an aura. it was not always possible to have the totem out and it was much easier to "dispell" those buffs that are now not dispellable anymore.

    I agree with you that blizzard could do more things with ghostwolf. some more love and inspiration would be nice.
    I'm not agains root breaking it is just "druids have it with shapeshift give it us too you made the same thing with our buffs giving away to others" what annoys me.

    btw I play elemental shaman so it might be possible that the buff homogenization had a larger impact to enhance or resto to get a raid slot cause of the "unique" buffs no unique anymore.
    Last edited by Nebria; 2013-05-14 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #22
    @Nebria

    Its not that I had a big problem with the Homogenization. Its the problem I have that blizzard did the homogenization, then turns around and says they want to keep "unique" stuff unique, when they are doing the COMPLETE opposite of what they say.

    Either completely homogenize the game or go back to the uniqueness. This muddled middle-middle ground is just taking the worst of both situations and combining with little benefits.

    If they came out and said that they screwed up with the "uniqueness" aspect, I would be totally happy, because they would have actually admitted fault. Instead, they go around saying they didn't screw up anything, just that they are "experimenting" with the gameplay.

    However, as with my last post, I am disappointed that they are going against their own lore with the shaman. Having everyone being able to snare/CC a ghost, is contradictory to me, especially, when its a class's specialty. For that fact alone, I believe that priests should be the only class who should be able to CC a shaman while in GW or the Feral Spirit wolves, just for the fact that ghosts are incorporeal, ie. bodiless, which means traditional abilities should not effect them. IMO, it should be the reverse of what druids and shaman are. A druid is still a druid, they don't transform into a spirit like the shaman.
    Shaman PvP Theory
    - "that all sounds nice but i prefer the hide behind a rock and dps method, and if they target you, ghost wolf, and if they start attacking you, bend over and prepare yourself psychologically."
    -Thunderspike

  3. #23
    I can't at all understand the hate for the new totem system; its easily one of the best changes to the class in a long while.

    Under the old design we had to give up powerful group-wide buffs for utility -- something no other class had to do. Likewise, Raid buffs from other classes also had massive range advantages.

    The new design isn't perfect, but I'm certain they will continue to expand on and improve what we've been given.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    Yea you know - how stealth is the rogue defining mechanic.. they'd never give another class stealth.
    Hunters got it as a glyph. Druids have it as kitty. Night elfs have it as a racial. Anyone can have it as a potion. Not unique.

  5. #25
    Warchief Protoman's Avatar
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    What I think is complete bullcrap is that in the past they were making druids talent for root shift, and glyph for things like auto snare on feral abilities.....but they went and made them all baseline, so all druids have snare/root powershifting and feral abilties like mangle apply a snare debuff. Shaman's GW had it's "freedom" effect baseline in CATA, it makes sense that a proper improvement on the GW spell would be to make it instant plus freedom effect baseline and not having to glyph it. Its an essential mobility tool in PVP and stuff like kiting, closing gaps, or running flags is not very effective without the imp GW glyph.

    The glyph needs to be baseline!!!! LONG overdue buff. Our GW shifting may not seem as "signature" as a Druids, but it is still very important and used often in PVP, I know especially as a melee enhancer I use it often in bg's, and we lack any proper mobility tools for the Shaman class as well no talent tier devoted to movement like many other classes get (including druids which makes their mobility overkill)....... they need to give us Imp GW baseline.

    I don't think we need our shifting to dispel snares/roots though, I like how we get a partial immunity to snares instead......our GW should have a diff, unique edge to deal with CC's like make them harder to land on Shaman while in GW or decrease their duration/effectiveness (along with freedom effect on snares).

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    Yea you know - how stealth is the rogue defining mechanic.. they'd never give another class stealth.
    Except that they gave hunters a stealth.
    i require ham.

  7. #27
    Stop crying, please. You shamans got it all, the total package, there is almost no ability in teh game which a shaman cant do, and if there is one, well then the shaman got a totem for it.

    You guys had more than enough for years and now you start bitching about such an issue?
    Thats exactly the mindset i expect from a true hearted shaman.


    [Infracted]
    Last edited by Endus; 2013-05-15 at 01:23 PM.

  8. #28
    Why would you even enter a forum thread where shamans talks about their class and / or their wishlist, and the proceed to post such a useless post? Really mate.
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    I can't at all understand the hate for the new totem system; its easily one of the best changes to the class in a long while.

    Under the old design we had to give up powerful group-wide buffs for utility -- something no other class had to do. Likewise, Raid buffs from other classes also had massive range advantages.

    The new design isn't perfect, but I'm certain they will continue to expand on and improve what we've been given.
    U do realize that ever since TBC, almost every class has gotten a shaman buff that was taken away from shaman right? The only totems we had that were taken away, and NOT given to another class were our Resist totems. Anyone remember the good ol' sentry totem?
    Shaman PvP Theory
    - "that all sounds nice but i prefer the hide behind a rock and dps method, and if they target you, ghost wolf, and if they start attacking you, bend over and prepare yourself psychologically."
    -Thunderspike

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    I can't at all understand the hate for the new totem system...
    You lost me with "new" totem system.

    Totems are still destroyable, still 5 hp, still immobile, still locking each other out when same element.
    The only change was that they are now unusable while silence, which, last time I checked, was a big nerf.

    What I believe you to refer as as a new totem system, actually is just buffs not being totems anymore (which isn't a mechanic change at all), and totems being more cooldown based now (which is only a shift in design, not a new mechanic). And all that did was make us even more gimped when they are rofl-stomped, because blizz did not follow through with better totem protection, or more individual treatment for totems, instead of throwing them all into one design-pot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ripponesan View Post
    Stop crying, please. You shamans got it all, the total package, there is almost no ability in teh game which a shaman cant do, and if there is one, well then the shaman got a totem for it.
    Almost no ability? We have no stun, only slows. We lack any reliable CC. Looking at parse averages, we have some of the lowest DPS compared to other hybrids, let alone Pure DPS. I would have agreed with your statement in vanilla and TBC because blizzard made us to be the utility machines. We brought everything to the table. Once they started homogenizing, they redacted their original statement regarding shaman as the "Swiss Army Knife" of WoW, removed over 1/2 of our totems, and gave about 3/4 of that half to other classes. The rest was trashed or baked in.

    Quote Originally Posted by ripponesan View Post
    You guys had more than enough for years and now you start bitching about such an issue?
    Thats exactly the mindset i expect from a true hearted shaman.


    [Infracted]
    More than enough? What are you talking about? We haven't had anything until Firelands, and guess what? We got nurfed again after Firelands. On top of that we have some of the lowest ratios for main damaging abilities. On top of that. when we get something good, and we become a force to be reckoned with, people like you bitch and complain that we actually got something good and it gets nurfed into the ground, as an example, see Feral Spirit. Feral spirit isn't the only thing we've had beat to hell with the nurf bat either though.
    Shaman PvP Theory
    - "that all sounds nice but i prefer the hide behind a rock and dps method, and if they target you, ghost wolf, and if they start attacking you, bend over and prepare yourself psychologically."
    -Thunderspike

  12. #32
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohmar View Post
    U do realize that ever since TBC, almost every class has gotten a shaman buff that was taken away from shaman right? The only totems we had that were taken away, and NOT given to another class were our Resist totems. Anyone remember the good ol' sentry totem?
    Those classes haven't gotten "a shaman buff". About the only argument in that regard you could make would be the introduction of Ancient Hysteria and Time Warp to Hunters and Mages, to expand Bloodlust/Hero outside of Shaman.

    And you're deliberately ignoring a host of buffs we've received in return, where the same argument could be made on behalf of other classes.

    You're trying to make an argument that Shaman have been hard-done-by, and it does not fit the reality. It's just a persecution complex defined by your choice of perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohmar View Post
    Almost no ability? We have no stun, only slows.
    If by "no stun", you mean "one baseline AoE stun and one talented stun", sure. You're confusing "no stuns that have the mechanics and performance that I would prefer" with "no stuns at all".

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If by "no stun", you mean "one baseline AoE stun and one talented stun", sure. You're confusing "no stuns that have the mechanics and performance that I would prefer" with "no stuns at all".
    I apologize, I completely forgot about capacitor totem. But taking that as it is, it also suffers from "totem-itis" where it can be killed with a simple autoattack. As for "hard-done-by" we have been treated that way by blizzard ever since TBC, so I don't where your coming from on that. We were a force to be reckoned with in pvp back in Vanilla. Get a TUF and cast WF and let the fun begin! We were also probably one of the top healers in the game. We were able to bring everything to the raid/bgs. Alas, our hayday seems to be over :S I was hoping for another one but it looks like its not in the cards :S
    Shaman PvP Theory
    - "that all sounds nice but i prefer the hide behind a rock and dps method, and if they target you, ghost wolf, and if they start attacking you, bend over and prepare yourself psychologically."
    -Thunderspike

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    You lost me with "new" totem system.

    Totems are still destroyable, still 5 hp, still immobile, still locking each other out when same element.
    The only change was that they are now unusable while silence, which, last time I checked, was a big nerf.

    What I believe you to refer as as a new totem system, actually is just buffs not being totems anymore (which isn't a mechanic change at all), and totems being more cooldown based now (which is only a shift in design, not a new mechanic). And all that did was make us even more gimped when they are rofl-stomped, because blizz did not follow through with better totem protection, or more individual treatment for totems, instead of throwing them all into one design-pot.
    Buffs not being tied to the totem system is absolutely a big deal and a new direction in totem design -- a POSITIVE direction at that. I'm pretty sure I said that it still wasn't perfect and still needed some improvement. However, thats not really what the OP is talking about anyway, he wants to go back to the days of them being buff sticks.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Buffs not being tied to the totem system is absolutely a big deal and a new direction in totem design -- a POSITIVE direction at that. I'm pretty sure I said that it still wasn't perfect and still needed some improvement. However, thats not really what the OP is talking about anyway, he wants to go back to the days of them being buff sticks.
    It is positive development, yes. But it is no change in the actual totem system. Totems still work 90% how they always worked, the last 10% are the silence nerf. The fact that the best they ever did in regards to totems was remove abilities from their system tells all we need to know.

    Unless they actually develop how totems function, and working on their still unchanged format of immobility, destroyability and the like, there'll will be no improvement on the mechanic.
    And unless the mechanic really improves, the worst that can happen for any new shaman ability will still be to be made a totem (CPT and SBT tell the tale of it not having changed at all).
    Totems, as they've always been, are still a sysnonym for weakness. There's not a single advantage they have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  16. #36
    feel free to make a druid, play the druid, and compare the two spells.
    maybe then youll like ghost wolf form better in some way.

    until then you're just whining.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    It is positive development, yes. But it is no change in the actual totem system. Totems still work 90% how they always worked, the last 10% are the silence nerf. The fact that the best they ever did in regards to totems was remove abilities from their system tells all we need to know.

    Unless they actually develop how totems function, and working on their still unchanged format of immobility, destroyability and the like, there'll will be no improvement on the mechanic.
    And unless the mechanic really improves, the worst that can happen for any new shaman ability will still be to be made a totem (CPT and SBT tell the tale of it not having changed at all).
    Totems, as they've always been, are still a sysnonym for weakness. There's not a single advantage they have.
    Well with totemic projection, you can do play around with them, but that takes a another really important talent as price

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 06:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by soulzek View Post
    feel free to make a druid, play the druid, and compare the two spells.
    maybe then youll like ghost wolf form better in some way.

    until then you're just whining.
    For the record, i dont see how anyone could not see the benefits of druid travel form vs shaman ghost wolf form, be he/she biased or not.
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  18. #38
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    It is positive development, yes. But it is no change in the actual totem system.
    It wasn't a change to how the abilities called "totems" mechanically worked, no, but that isn't what people are referring to. What it meant was a major shift in the purpose of totems, away from providing static buffs and enabling them to much more readily be used for temporary short-duration CDs. Prior to the change, in PvE, most Shaman simply dropped 4 totems at the start of combat and refreshed them as needed; they ignored the other totems, since their benefits were typically not worth the loss of the raid buff.

    Changing that was still a major change to the totem system, it was a change in totem purpose rather than totem mechanics, however.

  19. #39
    Can't wait for the day blizzard makes glyph of ghost wolf baseline.

    Ghost wolf is not without its advantages. It just that "usable indoors" is the only one.

    Totems were a ball and chain around our ankles. Keeping us in the towers and off the battlefields, always gimped on offense.
    Totemic calls were one solution to the problem. The current situation is another.
    You complain that we've lost totems that were part of an entire class of buffs that has been removed entirely. The passive mana regen buff is dead, for everyone.
    Every time a totem has become an aura that's a buff.

    Homogenization is good, we didn't need spirit classes vs mana per 5 classes or strength mail and leather, that was all pretty fucking dumb and many buffs that were later combined/eliminated represent that old paradigm.

    Still I agree, it does need something. The glyph being baseline would help. Then maybe in this fantasy world a new glyph of ghost wolf makes the buff physical, breaking roots and making it undispellable in exchange for a cooldown.

    It's pretty clear that blizzard is in a bind as far as finding ways to buff the dps specs in pvp without putting resto over the top. In that way resto is holding us down.
    I think earth totems should be physical school. That's my one gripe about the new totem system.

  20. #40
    Scarab Lord ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    Why does hex have a 45 second CD but polymorph has no CD?
    Hex doesn't heal your target to full. 1:1 comparisons are garbage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    Why does lightning bolt have a higher cast time than smite?
    You're comparing a DPS to a healer, but what the fuck ever. Can't wait to hear Holy Paladins complaining about the cast time on Divine Light because Serpent Sting is instant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    Why does riptide's HoT do less healing than rejuvenation?
    Druids are a HoT healer. Like exclusively. It is a huge, defining aspect of their class. Shaman have exceptionally strong AOE healing without HoTs through abilities like Chain Heal (when appropriate), Healing Rain and your totems. Also Rejuvenation doesn't combo with a moderately strong AOE heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    Why do shamans not have good absorption?
    Probably for the same reason Mistweaver Monks, Resto Druids and Holy Priests don't either, and Holy Paladins barely do. Y'know, that shit about class distinction and stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    How come shamans stun is a totem with a 5 second cast time?
    Capacitor totem is an AOE with an 8 yard range and cannot be interrupted "traditionally", it requires a switch off of you and a burst, and to any competent player, basically functions as a "taunt off me for a sec" button.


    As for Ghost Wolf versus Shapeshifting... Probably a combination of lore and gameplay, in that Druid are the absolute masters of shapeshifting, while Shaman aren't so much (as they only choose one other form). Also, y'know, preservation of class uniqueness and shit. And also, you can't glyph shapeshift forms to reduce your snarability so...

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