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  1. #21
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rnbwtrout View Post
    <Snip>
    They made IW dispellable, and people keep bitching about duels/1v1 in BGs/2v2s arenas where, I'll admit, we outshine many.

    Now, give your team an offensive dispel and a defensive dispel, and now we're nothing.

    Because enough people bitched, they're now turning IW into this worthless shitty ability.

    That's, basically the gist of it. If you want them to hold your hand through a Mage's IW, then I guess we should grow 600 feet tall when we put the shield on.

    It actually IS players' faults for not doing anything about it and just bitching when damage came.

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  2. #22
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    Right, because the class doing more burst than hunters did with Powershot is fine, but Hunters weren't. Sorry, the nerfbat is coming for mages too.
    "CLEANSE THE DEEP!" doesn't work when they do it to your healer. Yes, most mages spec into presence of mind to Instant Poly someone without a trinket into a Deep on the healer while he doesn't have a trinket, and someone dies. Bottom line. Mage has CC'd two people on your team, auto-crits, all his budy has to do is throw a CC at the third and punch the frozen guy.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by rnbwtrout View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We are aware that there are many players who have issues dealing with Mage burst capabilities, however we feel that the main problem right now isn't simply Deep Freeze or Frozen orb directly, but rather the damage increase caused by Incanter's Ward. When stacked with other damage increasing effects such as procs and Frost Mage mastery, it can add up to an additional 30% damage multiplier, which can be quite devastating against many opponents. Because Incanter's Ward is one of the bigger reasons for high Mage burst, we have plans to make changes to it in patch 5.3.

    In an upcoming change to the patch 5.3 patch notes you will see that we are looking to change the maximum spell damage increase from 30% to 15% but have the effect duration increased to 25 seconds, up from 15 seconds. This will lower the damage coming from Frozen Orb, Frost Bomb and other skills during a Mages burst window, but that damage multiplier will just last for a bit longer.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...67?page=10#189

    if you've been following the official forums, there's been many threads recently closed or deleted related to mage nerfs. yet, the threads regarding nerfs to other classes are not bothered with at all, especially the recent outcry against hunters. two-face much, blizzard?

    now we have this condescending blue post which basically says it's our fault we're getting blown up by mages. our "issues dealing with mage burst capabilities," or lack thereof is forcing their hand.

    i used to not put much credence to the cries of favoritism, especially when GC repeatedly denies there's none of it, but how can you look at these recent developments and not go hmmmmmmm? i can tolerate a lot of stuff, but the one thing that will get me to unsub is class favoritism.
    I read the Blizz quote as "Mages are doing too much burst because of this ability/talent," OP reads it as "It's the players fault they can't handle mage burst."

    It can't be both, OP. Maybe you should read the whole quote instead of the first line.

  4. #24
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    Mages have always been favored by GC. Noxxic rankings for DPS has all 3 specs in the top 5 for most of the gear level rankings.

    Its burns me all the time when I think about it.

    In PvP they have stupid amounts of control.
    Noxxic is a retard's site, and we're "the top 3" because they overvalue our L90 talents. Go check Raidbots and you'll see that reality is not matching up with simulations.

    GC does not favor Mage, nor does he even PLAY a Mage (he's admitted to playing a Warrior since Cata-Mop). If he favored us, he certainly wouldn't have pushed Invocation and Rune of Power on us for PvE.

    Please do some research before spouting utter nonsense.

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    and here we see the level of knowledge held by people who cry about mages
    No shit im oversimplifying it, but running NT pretty much allows you to spam instants most of the time, which was the quote I was referring too.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    They made IW dispellable, and people keep bitching about duels/1v1 in BGs/2v2s arenas where, I'll admit, we outshine many.

    Now, give your team an offensive dispel and a defensive dispel, and now we're nothing.

    Because enough people bitched, they're now turning IW into this worthless shitty ability.

    That's, basically the gist of it. If you want them to hold your hand through a Mage's IW, then I guess we should grow 600 feet tall when we put the shield on.

    It actually IS players' faults for not doing anything about it and just bitching when damage came.
    It's also your fault for soaking Powershot when the hunter had procs and CD's up, right?
    It's your fault for eating a 5 Stack TFB.

    And these are just recent examples.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Right, because the class doing more burst than hunters did with Powershot is fine, but Hunters weren't. Sorry, the nerfbat is coming for mages too.
    "CLEANSE THE DEEP!" doesn't work when they do it to your healer.
    - Trinket it? What else would be worth trinketing?
    - Use a defensive cooldown as 95% of them can be used while stunned nowdays.
    - Your allies should be alert when you get deeped. If all 3/5 of you get CC'd trinketless and CD-less, then you DESERVE to lose for playing so bad. (If there's any less than 3 of you, then the game is NOT balanced around you, so stop bitching)

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 05:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    It's also your fault for soaking Powershot when the hunter had procs and CD's up, right?
    It's your fault for eating a 5 Stack TFB.

    And these are just recent examples.
    TfB could stack instantly and one-shot any player. It was purely RNG based in one global burst.

    Mages have to get the target frozen or get a FoF procc to Deep a player (at the right time for Frost Bomb, of course), and then spam a few globals of Ice Lance. We're talking like 4-5s compared to 1s. In addition to that, a simple defensive dispel on the player would instantly RUIN everything, or a simple trinket would do the same. An offensive dispel would also greatly diminish a Mage completely.

    CC a Warrior who had 5 stacks of TfB. Try dispelling him. When you finally realize you're wrong, you know that Warrior will just charge and Overpower you in one burst.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 05:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    No shit im oversimplifying it, but running NT pretty much allows you to spam instants most of the time, which was the quote I was referring too.
    9% chance every second to procc a free FFB does not allow us to "spam instants".

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    - Trinket it? What else would be worth trinketing?
    - Use a defensive cooldown as 95% of them can be used while stunned nowdays.
    - Your allies should be alert when you get deeped. If all 3/5 of you get CC'd trinketless and CD-less, then you DESERVE to lose for playing so bad. (If there's any less than 3 of you, then the game is NOT balanced around you, so stop bitching)
    Trinket 2 minute CD. Deep 30. Riiiight.

    95% of defensives? What are you on?

    Your ally is in an 8 second Poly. The Mage also has 2 teammates. Not every spec has infinite CC breaks.

  9. #29
    I actually thought GC was rolling around on an unholy main (based on a tweet a bit ago). But he also changes mains a lot, he says, which I totally believe.

    Mages have NOT "always been favored". But I think it's fair to say that throughout most of Cata they were solid, and so far throughout all of MoP, they have been in the top four specs (and usually only topped by wildly OP nonsense, such as 5.0 warriors).

    My big problem isn't that I can die in a deep, it's that I can't do anything about it, and I don't know whether a deep is going to be over. EVERY deep starts with either a sheeped healer OR my other dps is sheeped and they have a plan to CC our heals if she comes LoS. The bare minimum required is dispel, which may not be smart depending on comp (there could be a UA or VT for instance). Because the actual kill burst happens almost instantly, I don't know if it's a kill amount of damage or not until I'm pretty much done. The fact that you can throw a stun into a full health target and reasonably expect a kill is the problem. If I dance a low health target, they have cools or they die. But deep feels like that with me topped off.
    Last edited by Verain; 2013-05-13 at 09:43 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Trinket 2 minute CD. Deep 30. Riiiight.

    95% of defensives? What are you on?

    Your ally is in an 8 second Poly. The Mage also has 2 teammates. Not every spec has infinite CC breaks.
    Apparently he doesnt know what godcomp is. Spriests fear is totally not worth trinketing.

  11. #31
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    One of the reason it is so bad is that it is hard to counter. Unless you have a trinket, have a cd to get out of a stun, a cd that can be used while you have a stun or getting a dispell from a friend it is hard to counter. It not only hits you hard, but is very hard to counter it because you are stunned so you can not use your cds, and you can not dodge/parry/reflect it either because of being stunned. No other class has a cc that not only ccs you but then increases that classes burst. Them both together is just too strong.
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  12. #32
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    Mages are fine, use your tool kit given to your class. Here's a hint, if you're up against a fire mage, Heating up can be dispelled.

    And to clarify something that CaptUntsAhts stated, if your ally is in an 8 second poly, get as close to him as you can. Bombs break cc.

    Everyone wants to point their finger at the class when they cant point the finger at themselves. Learn more about mages if you have a hard time against them, duel them more... I enjoy chewing up mages personally.
    Last edited by Tripz; 2013-05-13 at 09:47 PM.
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    I hear in order to get the browser attunement, you first had to run heroic Internet.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Apparently he doesnt know what godcomp is. Spriests fear is totally not worth trinketing.
    If all three of you are in CC (one in a deep) and the only one with a trinket is the SPriest fear, then you're going to trinket that or just do nothing and lose.

    You guys seem to think both of your allies are complete buffoons. Might I suggest trying arenaing with higher skill players?

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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    No other class has a cc that not only ccs you but then increases that classes burst. Them both together is just too strong.
    Rogues actually have this as a talent, but it is not nearly that strong. Kidney Shot is still a dps loss for the rogue- a pretty large one- and the +10% damage doesn't really come close to that.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripz View Post
    Mages are fine, use your tool kit given to your class
    "WHAT?! USE COOLDOWNS BASED ON ME GETTING CC'D OR HAVING TO DISPEL THINGS?! UNTHINKABLE!!!!!"

    Is what 95% of players who rage about Mages actually are like.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 05:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    No other class has a cc that not only ccs you but then increases that classes burst. Them both together is just too strong.
    Okay, and that's the only way we really do any damage.

    Unfrozen Frost Bombs hit like a wet noodle (especially non crit, non frozen frost bombs) in comparison to one in a Deep. Ice Lance w/o FoF does like... what, 1k damage? Casting Frostbolt puts us in danger zone with the thousands of interrupts and silences there are in the game. WHAT OTHER SPELL DO WE HAVE, PEOPLE?!

    Seriously. All you whiners need to get a Mage to 90 and realize that we don't have a huge toolkit for damage. Outside of a deep and without any procs, our damage is just non-existent.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-05-13 at 09:47 PM.

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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    "WHAT?! USE COOLDOWNS BASED ON ME GETTING CC'D OR HAVING TO DISPEL THINGS?! UNTHINKABLE!!!!!"

    Is what 95% of players who rage about Mages actually are like.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 05:47 PM ----------



    Okay, and that's the only way we really do any damage.

    Unfrozen Frost Bombs hit like a wet noodle (especially non crit, non frozen frost bombs) in comparison to one in a Deep. Ice Lance w/o FoF does like... what, 1k damage? Casting Frostbolt puts us in danger zone with the thousands of interrupts and silences there are in the game. WHAT OTHER SPELL DO WE HAVE, PEOPLE?!

    Seriously. All you whiners need to get a Mage to 90 and realize that we don't have a huge toolkit for damage. Outside of a deep and without any procs, our damage is just non-existent.
    Trinket has no cooldown bro, no cooldown at all!
    Let's trinket EVERYTHINGGGGGG

    Wet noodle? Try playing one of the classes that ACTUALLY hits like wet noodle. It's almost as if dps casters should learn how to juke... nope, all they have to do is instant cast and jump around. You can't complain about silences existing while disarms exist, that's just laughable.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Trinket has no cooldown bro, no cooldown at all!
    Let's trinket EVERYTHINGGGGGG

    Wet noodle? Try playing one of the classes that ACTUALLY hits like wet noodle. It's almost as if dps casters should learn how to juke... nope, all they have to do is instant cast and jump around. You can't complain about silences existing while disarms exist, that's just laughable.
    So I'm guessing a bomb that hits for 30-40k outside of frozen/crits isn't a wet noodle to you.

    Not to mention it puts us in interrupt valley.

    Alright, I don't have a disarm so... Yeah... Not to mention that silences affect us just as bad (if not worse because we can't even pop defensives in a silence except for Ice Block).

    I'm guessing you're one of those 95% who don't know what their class's toolkit is.

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  18. #38
    ill make that mage when you make a warrior and do 3s against wizards

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLVCK View Post
    ill make that mage when you make a warrior and do 3s against wizards
    So, I should go 1v3? Sounds legit.

    What are my teammates? Are they just incompetent idiots? Why am I doing hardcore 3s with them then?

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  20. #40
    Well, one of your teammates rolled sheep for this match, and the other has literally any other multi-second crowd control on them, probably applied by one of the mage's teammates.

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