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  1. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Oh you silly person. There is variability in every category of human performance, and not just "handicapped vs. not". We are biological entities, and the equipment we use to think and act has a huge diversity of differences. This is how evolution works, after all: selection based on small differences in traits.
    Which is why we advance so slowly. Most people suck at pretty much everything.

  2. #1042
    Quote Originally Posted by NRL1515 View Post
    Look, most of us are, in real life, fairly reasonable people. I consider myself a very skilled raider. However, the people I raid with, we probably won't get to the end of ToT until 5.4 is out. I've accepted, that as a group, we will probably not get into heroics at all - collectively we're not that skilled etc.
    You've just described my situation almost exactly. I think some people playing at a higher level have a bit of a misconception of what the situation is at the lower levels. This has happened to 3 guilds I've been in this Xpac, and it looks like it's about to happen again with the guild I'm currently in.

    But you know what they say, if everyone around you is an a-hole, then you're probably the a-hole

  3. #1043
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazs View Post
    We have all seen alot of changes come with throne of thunder. In all honesty I think they are all for the better. But I wanted to bring to everyones attention the difficulty of this tier. this isnt to QQ about how it is too hard. because TOT is the best raid we have had since Ulduar. but to point out the stress it has been causing alot of guild and I wonder if it is the reason guilds are falling apart.

    Becuase of the difficulty can this be the reason we see fatboss fall. and see Exodus fall apart. or is it simply becuase the content is rolling out too quickly and we arent given a chance to breathe or take a break between races for top tier progression.

    All in all. whatever the cause be. I wanted to see what the community thought. I know guilds rise. guilds fall. but this patch. not becuase content is bad. I believe the difficulty is causing strain and what wouldnt seem like faults in a raid team are now becoming very apparent. I just reflect and see alot of it happening.
    I'm sorry, I usually try not to lol at people's ignorance but LOL!

    Blaming raid difficulty? Seriously? If you actually bothered to look up the facts, Killars from Exodus made a public post about why they weren't going to be continuing in the world first races any more, as to Fatboss, it wasn't the difficulty either, it was simple fact of player burn out. Alot of these players have played since days of Vanilla and TBC and Wotlk so when you consider the amount of years that alone adds up to, then add in Cata and MoP, it's basically 5-9 yrs of constant raiding and grinding on mains and then alts so they can funnel more gear back to mains again. Of course some guilds are gonna fall along the way, that's the life of a raiding guild when it's pushing to clear content at such a high pace, some are able to sustain it while others just decide they got the fun they wanted from the game and that's enough.

    Using the fact a few guilds have broken up and naming 2 of the obvious ones just to further your own thread and opinion isn't reason enough to misquote facts. Just so you see I am actually quoting here, I'll paste Killars facebook post for you:

    QUOTE:

    <Exodus> IS DEAD!?!

    Yes, I'll confirm the news here for anyone not in the loop or questioning the rumors. <Exodus> will no longer continue to function as a 25 man raiding guild. No plan to go 10 man as of yet, but that really doesn't matter because 25 man is what the hardcore raiding scene really is about and Exodus will no longer be competing in such a scene.

    Why? How? Well this game isn't to blame. In the last few years this game (despite many people quitting and guilds dying) isn't to blame for vodka/Exodus' demise it's the raiding community. I don't mean this is a pointing the finger sort of way, it's an inevitable sort of flaw in the competition of the top end raiders. You see... we've basically been killing ourselves off slowly since day 1. In the last few years we've certainly picked up the pace, but the "hardcore raider" is a dying breed and it's certainly becoming a more difficult breed to be a part of. What I mean by this is of course the time commitment and the level of shear dedication and determination it takes and costs to be at the very top. This isn't to poke fun, but to just shed light of why many people, and subsequently, many guilds will fall. Raiding for many many hours on end is fun, CAN be exciting, and at the end of it all can really prove who really wants that world first/us first/realm first the most. Unfortunately we (hardcore raiders) pushed too hard. Tier after tier we just keep adding to the insanity in both farming preparations and actual progressing. It's almost as if progression itself never really ends after a end tier boss dies. Combine this with Blizzard actually putting new content out faster, alts playing a big role, PTR/BETA, dailys, coins, BMAH, well... you just get lost in it all. Right now there are a few legit world first guilds left. The competition is slim because the competition is literally eating each other (well not that literally). Good luck to everyone left in the race for this expact, but I don't know how much longer this sort of thing can last.

    Am I done? Is this my good bye post to the raiding community? No haha no my friends I'm way too stubborn and foolish to actually use my knowledge to stop myself from the enjoyment I get from WoW and the community. This is something I've talked about since around Firelands. I had a clear realization of how much more TIME fit in the equation of "how to be world first" and although it bothered me I still enjoyed it as I was one of the few that had that TIME. I'm simply reiterating what I've said many times as it is the elaborate explanation I can give to people now that my guild(s) have died and I want people to avoid pointing fingers at a particular person or a particular situation.

    What's next for Killars? I dunno... "LFR Troll Rogue ilvl 532" I guess... I really don't know (which is kinda scary) but we'll see.




    As to the Fatboss stuff, they're still playing but they ain't doing guides any more, originally they were playing WoW and other games and just doing simple guides/coverage of the different games as they went along but due to the fact the Fatboss Raid guides became so much in demand they went with it, hell why not. More youtube views = income once you break a certain amount of views. It's just now after a couple years of constantly doing so they're breaking away from the guide thing and gonna start covering different kinds of things again. You only need look this stuff up to find out.

    Go youtube and look up: Fatboss Weekly - Week 30 - "An Announcement!"

    Back to the OP though, the tier isn't hard but it's just not faceroll like Cata was either. It requires guilds to actually work together again and the fact you can't just steam roll your way in seems to get to alot of people but this is how raiding should be, there shouldn't be some easy gap to traverse. You SHOULD have to put in some effort in normal/heroic raiding to see results. If you like steam rolling content stick to farming LFR and the bosses you are able to down on normal until the group as a whole is able to progress together.

    Bare in mind these world first guilds (not necessarily ones previously mentioned above) in general usually hit the new raids at the launch of new expansions in nothing better then blues and possibly those few epics they were lucky enough to get or craft or buy, they'll take breaks after a boss or maybe a few bosses so those who got loot can quickly gem, enchant, reforge etc before they crack on again with the next challenge and so on until the last boss is dead.

    I'm glad ToT is challenging, it's about time Blizz put a distinctive enough gap between LFR and normal/heroic raiding so that people don't just faceroll content and then moan a month or 2 down the line they're bored with nothing to do (every raid in Cata springs to mind) with only exception being Ragnaros. Effort equals reward should always be the point of a raid, not faceroll.

    It's like all this stuff about dailies and reputations etc, if you don't want to do it, DON'T! It's completely optional, there's plenty of ways to gear up or play WoW now that don't include grinding, it's not mandatory. A lot of the people that have supposedly left the game recently (incase you're hinting to the recent sub drop) was purely from the Asian market of players and the reason for that being, in Asia i.e Japan, China etc, they got so many F2P mmo's coming out on a weekly/monthly basis it just probably didn't make sense to them to pay subs over and over for WoW when they nuked the content and got bored faster then any region that's played so far and the reason for that? Because they play these games on such a regular basis free but also at a higher level of play then WoW offered. It just wasn't challenging enough to them or financially worth the subs and later payments for expansion upgrading.

  4. #1044
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    Cant believe this is still going with those 4 persons still arguing determined that ToT normals is too hard 0_o
    Its like a circle jerk of really bad players. We pug alt/pugs every week on alts and full clear normals in one night easily. We are going to start heroics next week with pugs/alts, people who hardly play, clearing this amazing difficult content.

    Every think that it might be you that is so utterly bad that a nerf wouldnt help? I am not directing this at any one person but in general to the people complaining it is too hard. Someone put up a WOL early in the thread and the numbers were laughable at best because people didnt know how to play their own class.

    So you want to clear normal content but you cant even play the basic controls of your toon?

  5. #1045
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emi666 View Post
    Back to the OP though, the tier isn't hard but it's just not faceroll like Cata was either. It requires guilds to actually work together again and the fact you can't just steam roll your way in seems to get to alot of people but this is how raiding should be, there shouldn't be some easy gap to traverse. You SHOULD have to put in some effort in normal/heroic raiding to see results. If you like steam rolling content stick to farming LFR and the bosses you are able to down on normal until the group as a whole is able to progress together.

    Bare in mind these world first guilds (not necessarily ones previously mentioned above) in general usually hit the new raids at the launch of new expansions in nothing better then blues and possibly those few epics they were lucky enough to get or craft or buy, they'll take breaks after a boss or maybe a few bosses so those who got loot can quickly gem, enchant, reforge etc before they crack on again with the next challenge and so on until the last boss is dead.

    I'm glad ToT is challenging, it's about time Blizz put a distinctive enough gap between LFR and normal/heroic raiding so that people don't just faceroll content and then moan a month or 2 down the line they're bored with nothing to do (every raid in Cata springs to mind) with only exception being Ragnaros. Effort equals reward should always be the point of a raid, not faceroll.

    It's like all this stuff about dailies and reputations etc, if you don't want to do it, DON'T! It's completely optional, there's plenty of ways to gear up or play WoW now that don't include grinding, it's not mandatory. A lot of the people that have supposedly left the game recently (incase you're hinting to the recent sub drop) was purely from the Asian market of players and the reason for that being, in Asia i.e Japan, China etc, they got so many F2P mmo's coming out on a weekly/monthly basis it just probably didn't make sense to them to pay subs over and over for WoW when they nuked the content and got bored faster then any region that's played so far and the reason for that? Because they play these games on such a regular basis free but also at a higher level of play then WoW offered. It just wasn't challenging enough to them or financially worth the subs and later payments for expansion upgrading.
    The only people claiming they were bored at the end of DS were the heroic raiders who had already cleared the place many times many months before. Also, it's funny you bring up mandatory activities. What happens when you can't down a boss? You either get more skill, or you get more gear. Since most everyone is bad, according to people's reasoning here, the other thing left is getting more gear. How would you do that? Lo and behold, the only upgrades for you are gated behind rep and dailies. Oh, but let's check the AH/BMAH! What, you don't have a bank toon funneling thousands of gold to your main to purchase gear? How bad of you! Go farm, you git!

    Look, personally I think ToT is perfect. However, I recognize my skill is a little higher than those other 9 lowly peons I choose to associate myself with. Sarcasm aside, I realize that my personal world (of warcraft) view is not a reflection, nor indicative of, the wow population as a whole, and that Blizzard needs to do something to encourage people into raiding. Having a high collective group difficulty is not the first thing I would choose to address, but what do I know, I don't have Blizzard's massive amount of playerbase info at my fingertips.
    Last edited by NRL1515; 2013-05-17 at 02:00 AM.
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

  6. #1046
    Pit Lord HeatherRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    Its like a circle jerk of really bad players. We pug alt/pugs every week on alts and full clear normals in one night easily. We are going to start heroics next week with pugs/alts, people who hardly play, clearing this amazing difficult content.

    Every think that it might be you that is so utterly bad that a nerf wouldnt help? I am not directing this at any one person but in general to the people complaining it is too hard. Someone put up a WOL early in the thread and the numbers were laughable at best because people didnt know how to play their own class.

    So you want to clear normal content but you cant even play the basic controls of your toon?
    I am a terrible player, it's true.
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  7. #1047
    Quote Originally Posted by NRL1515 View Post
    The only people claiming they were bored at the end of DS were the heroic raiders who had already cleared the place many times many months before. Also, it's funny you bring up mandatory activities. What happens when you can't down a boss? You either get more skill, or you get more gear. Since most everyone is bad, according to people's reasoning here, the other thing left is getting more gear. How would you do that? Lo and behold, the only upgrades for you are gated behind rep and dailies. Oh, but let's check the AH/BMAH! What, you don't have a bank toon funneling thousands of gold to your main to purchase gear? How bad of you! Go farm, you git!
    SO learn your class. Really setting up a toon correctly is not difficult but has a profound effect on your gameplay. I fixed a friends UI, and keybinded for him, he went from HORRIBAD to decent and still needed to learn priority in a rotation. He wiped on easy bosses and i looked at their numbers, changed out some bad's and boom they full cleared. That isnt rocket science bro.

  8. #1048
    Pit Lord HeatherRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRL1515 View Post
    The only people claiming they were bored at the end of DS were the heroic raiders who had already cleared the place many times many months before. Also, it's funny you bring up mandatory activities. What happens when you can't down a boss? You either get more skill, or you get more gear. Since most everyone is bad, according to people's reasoning here, the other thing left is getting more gear. How would you do that? Lo and behold, the only upgrades for you are gated behind rep and dailies. Oh, but let's check the AH/BMAH! What, you don't have a bank toon funneling thousands of gold to your main to purchase gear? How bad of you! Go farm, you git!
    I was bored to tears. But that was mostly the fact that there were only 8 bosses, and the two "hardest" fights were some of the most mind-numbing fights I have ever seen. There was nothing "inspiring" about that instance. Spine was just a pointless, annoying grind, and Madness was a pointless, gimmicky fight.

    Look, personally I think ToT is perfect. However, I recognize my skill is a little higher than those other 9 lowly peons I choose to associate myself with. Sarcasm aside, I realize that my personal world (of warcraft) view is not a reflection, nor indicative of, the wow population as a whole, and that Blizzard needs to do something to encourage people into raiding. Having a high collective group difficulty is not the first thing I would choose to address, but what do I know, I don't have Blizzard's massive amount of playerbase info at my fingertips.
    I'm working on Heroic Lei Shen at the moment. Normal was a joke for me. It wasn't a joke for the guild I came from, however. There were some damn good players in that guild (now defunct) who were carrying other, less-skilled players. But we were friends. I am still ambivalent about my decision to leave for progression.
    Tiriel <Demise> of US-Kel'Thuzad

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  9. #1049
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    I am a terrible player, it's true.
    I know Demise, so you think this normal content is too hard?

  10. #1050
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    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    SO learn your class. Really setting up a toon correctly is not difficult but has a profound effect on your gameplay. I fixed a friends UI, and keybinded for him, he went from HORRIBAD to decent and still needed to learn priority in a rotation. He wiped on easy bosses and i looked at their numbers, changed out some bad's and boom they full cleared. That isnt rocket science bro.
    Look, BRO, I agree with you. This game isn't difficult - for me. I used to have this thought process too, 'why is everyone around me so horrible at this game?' But then I developed friendships with other people in this game and then you don't realize that someone doesn't have what it takes until you meet that brick wall boss and find out Johnny DPS can't perform his rotation while kiting such and such to the green marker. Because if he could, you could use that extra 20k dps he isn't doing to push the boss into the next phase where you hope Sally Healer doesn't get that debuff because she cannot move far enough out of the group in less than 5 seconds.

    These people exist, and they make up more of the player base than you think. For a group of 10/25 individuals who consistently are pushing the envelopes of what their class is capable of, that's what heroic mode is for. Near-flawless execution of mechanics and playstyle. But to require that for normal mode is asking a little too much of today's population - whether that mindset is correct or not is irrelevant.
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

  11. #1051
    Pit Lord HeatherRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    I know Demise, so you think this normal content is too hard?
    It's a joke for me. But I am not the average raider. I know people, personally, who are struggling with the content. It's no fun to be slamming your face against the second or third boss for months at a time. Casual raiders do not have the intestinal fortitude that heroic raiders have (that, or the level of masochism, because, well...180+ wipes on H Durumu is only for the masochistic, imo). They aren't supposed to have it. They're better than LFR, but the wonky tuning and overall tuning level of Normal modes is putting them off. I'm tired of seeing guilds of friends fall apart, and I don't think that hardcore raiders realize this situation is destroying the very guilds that feed us players.

    Edited to Add: I also want to put forth the idea that, well, content is a lot easier when you are playing with skilled people. I don't work near as hard, as a healer, with skilled players as I did when I was a healer with a group with some very heavy members. (Well, unless we underheal the fight! xD)
    Last edited by HeatherRae; 2013-05-17 at 02:08 AM.
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  12. #1052
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    Its like a circle jerk of really bad players. We pug alt/pugs every week on alts and full clear normals in one night easily. We are going to start heroics next week with pugs/alts, people who hardly play, clearing this amazing difficult content.

    Every think that it might be you that is so utterly bad that a nerf wouldnt help? I am not directing this at any one person but in general to the people complaining it is too hard. Someone put up a WOL early in the thread and the numbers were laughable at best because people didnt know how to play their own class.

    So you want to clear normal content but you cant even play the basic controls of your toon?
    Haha that reminds me of the old catholic neighbor I had who could just not understand how the children of another neighbor neglected to go to church every sunday. I wondered how his world would collapse if he ever followed other people around just for a whole day...
    Yes there are many many people out who think reading tactics or playing the game differently from any other game (like mage is mage no matter what you shoot fireballs don't ya) is completely ridiculous and after doing the campaign of a certain game they jump into the pvp or whatever and think they win with just only masses of the most strongest numbers - before even thinking that there could be a counter-system or whatever. There are enough people who would never read a WoW website or even think that there are people who could get mad because they studied all these mechanics, numbers and read actually guides for some little ingame content. And even then there are those who know all that and just think "what a drag". Yet all these people play the game somehow... and the sad thing for the catholic neighbor is that sometimes even the bible is used as weight to do all possible things..
    But yeah. You can actually play the game for yourself in all different ways and there is not "one" way that's better or more correct. If the game as you play it doesn't make fun you quit. That's what is happening and it seems blizzard is sad about that and wants to actually add content for "different styles of playing the game"...
    Last edited by Hiram; 2013-05-17 at 02:12 AM.

  13. #1053
    Quote Originally Posted by NRL1515 View Post
    Look, BRO, I agree with you. This game isn't difficult - for me. I used to have this thought process too, 'why is everyone around me so horrible at this game?' But then I developed friendships with other people in this game and then you don't realize that someone doesn't have what it takes until you meet that brick wall boss and find out Johnny DPS can't perform his rotation while kiting such and such to the green marker. Because if he could, you could use that extra 20k dps he isn't doing to push the boss into the next phase where you hope Sally Healer doesn't get that debuff because she cannot move far enough out of the group in less than 5 seconds.


    These people exist, and they make up more of the player base than you think. For a group of 10/25 individuals who consistently are pushing the envelopes of what their class is capable of, that's what heroic mode is for.
    Ok heroics are great and i love them. Normals though are pugged and ran on alts every week cleared in one night. I take casual friends along for the full clear and they leave angry because they realize IT ISNT HARD as we walk though each boss fight. They go back to their guilds motivated and start talking to people to find out why they arent performing.

  14. #1054
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    It's a joke for me. But I am not the average raider. I know people, personally, who are struggling with the content. It's no fun to be slamming your face against the second or third boss for months at a time. Casual raiders do not have the intestinal fortitude that heroic raiders have (that, or the level of masochism, because, well...180+ wipes on H Durumu is only for the masochistic, imo). They aren't supposed to have it. They're better than LFR, but the wonky tuning and overall tuning level of Normal modes is putting them off. I'm tired of seeing guilds of friends fall apart, and I don't think that hardcore raiders realize this situation is destroying the very guilds that feed us players.

    Edited to Add: I also want to put forth the idea that, well, content is a lot easier when you are playing with skilled people. I don't work near as hard, as a healer, with skilled players as I did when I was a healer with a group with some very heavy members. (Well, unless we underheal the fight! xD)
    People don't realize that at all. 'Oh, this content is so easy my friends and I were able to 5 man up to Durumu - on ALTS! GET BETTER NOOBS!' Congratulations, you guys are very skilled and the fact that you can pull that off is amazing. Regrettably, the vast majority of WoW's raiding population is nowhere near that level. There are guilds out there, when trying to fill those last two spots, have to settle for a 'bad'. So, either you don't raid because you only have 8 people, or you swallow the bitter pill that LFR is your end-game content for the tier.
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  15. #1055
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    Haha that reminds me of the old catholic neighbor I had who could just not understand how the children of another neighbor neglected to go to church every sunday. I wondered how his world would collapse if he ever followed other people around just for a whole day...
    Yes there are many many people out who think reading tactics or playing the game differently from any other game (like mage is mage no matter what you shoot fireballs don't ya) is completely ridiculous and after doing the campaign of a certain game they jump into the pvp or whatever and think they win with just only masses of the most strongest numbers - before even thinking that there could be a counter-system or whatever. There are enough people who would never read a WoW website or even think that there are people who could get mad because they studied all these mechanics, numbers and read actually guides for some little ingame content. And even then there are those who know all that and just think "what a drag". Yet all these people play the game somehow... and the sad thing for the catholic neighbor is that sometimes even the bible is used as weight to do all possible things..
    But yeah. You can actually the game for yourself in all different ways and there is not "one" way that's better or more correct. If the game as you play it doesn't make fun you quit. That's what is happening and it seems blizzard is sad about that and wants to actually add content for "different styles of playing the game"...
    That is the part most dont understand. Heroic Raiders normally arent quitters as casuals do all the time. So people wonder why blizzard caters to heroic raiders or puts so much money into heroic raiding etc, a good amount of progression oriented raiders never quit when its hard because they like a challenge. While a wrath baby will quit the game when it is too hard because they dont want to put the effort out. So who would you rather have as subscribers?

  16. #1056
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    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    Ok heroics are great and i love them. Normals though are pugged and ran on alts every week cleared in one night. I take casual friends along for the full clear and they leave angry because they realize IT ISNT HARD as we walk though each boss fight. They go back to their guilds motivated and start talking to people to find out why they arent performing.
    I wish more people were in your situation. I really do. I love the raiding scene that this game offers, and I've been hard pressed to find that in other games. But look at the info and the amount of threads started over this issue, and clearly it's not as black and white as you think it is. But, that's not the case, and people are looking to other avenues, because Blizzard isn't giving them what they want - when are you going to realize this is bad for the whole game?

    Imagine, if you will, that we were at a place where even 10% of the population raids. Going with conservative numbers, that's almost 1 million people (I know I know, rounding and such, I'm going for the emotional appeal!). Wouldn't that give the developers more justification to spend more time working on raid content? How awesome would raiding be then?

    I'm not suggesting that lowering Normal difficulty is the answer to everything, but it's a good start. A lot of people actually enjoyed the LK model. You're saying with the amount of people that Blizz could employ, they couldn't find SOMETHING that could work?
    Last edited by NRL1515; 2013-05-17 at 02:19 AM. Reason: English is kinda hard sometimes
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  17. #1057
    Quote Originally Posted by NRL1515 View Post
    People don't realize that at all. 'Oh, this content is so easy my friends and I were able to 5 man up to Durumu - on ALTS! GET BETTER NOOBS!' Congratulations, you guys are very skilled and the fact that you can pull that off is amazing. Regrettably, the vast majority of WoW's raiding population is nowhere near that level. There are guilds out there, when trying to fill those last two spots, have to settle for a 'bad'. So, either you don't raid because you only have 8 people, or you swallow the bitter pill that LFR is your end-game content for the tier.
    I have skipped weeks of raiding before while looking for a skiller player. There is no reason to go in and wipe with a bad player. We pay for server transfers and factions changes, because there arent that many good players out there anymore.

    Nerfing content does not build good players, they simply wait for nerfs and then down bosses thinking they are good raiders then. Then the next tier launches and there is no nerf to carry them so once again the tier is too difficult and the process of saying content is too hard starts again.

  18. #1058
    I know people, personally, who are struggling with the content. It's no fun to be slamming your face against the second or third boss for months at a time. Casual raiders do not have the intestinal fortitude that heroic raiders have (that, or the level of masochism, because, well...180+ wipes on H Durumu is only for the masochistic, imo). They aren't supposed to have it. They're better than LFR, but the wonky tuning and overall tuning level of Normal modes is putting them off. I'm tired of seeing guilds of friends fall apart, and I don't think that hardcore raiders realize this situation is destroying the very guilds that feed us players.
    This is the point... and why the elitist's who seem to think the small little bubble that is their raid is indicative of the entire raiding scene is mindboggling in the extreme.

    Stuff like this:

    Its like a circle jerk of really bad players. We pug alt/pugs every week on alts and full clear normals in one night easily
    Gratz to you and yours... you are not an average raider... so why are you here? HeatherRae is a top notch raider and she "gets it" Many simply are not able to do what you can, get over yourself and understand that this is a fact and no matter how much you put them down or be condescending its not going to improve the situation.

    /facepalm

  19. #1059
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    855
    Quote Originally Posted by NRL1515 View Post
    I would think you'd want MORE people raiding so you would have a healthier pool of players to choose from; not exclude people from probably one of the few areas in this game that still gives you joy. We all know LFR isn't raiding. It's like riding the log ride at the amusement park because your 3 year old son wants to.
    In my opinion difficulty isn't the issue, it's the inclusion of LFR which takes players (who could potentially be fairly casual, normal mode raiders - like myself nowadays) out of the raiding pool because they can get a similar "raiding" experience without any commitment.

    Whether that's a bad thing overall is subject to debate. If a large group of players are getting what they want from the game by facerolling through LFR with other people who only seem to communicate to belittle someone's DPS or lack of situational awareness then, as much as it confuses the hell out of me I can't say they're "wrong". Unfortunately LFR does limit the amount of people who could make up the numbers in smaller guilds and, by throwing 5% bonuses at you every time you wipe it's not exactly promoting skill-improvement.
    Amazing signature courtesy of Shyama

  20. #1060
    Quote Originally Posted by NRL1515 View Post
    I wish more people were in your situation. I really do. I love the raiding scene that this game offers, and I've been hard pressed to find that in other games. But look at the info and the amount of threads started over this issue, and clearly it's not as black and white as you think it is. But, that's not the case, and people are looking to other avenues, because Blizzard isn't giving them what they want - when are you going to realize this is bad for the whole game?
    Making the game super easy or nerfed to the core isnt going to fix anything. People will not become better players, if anything they develop worse habits becoming even worse at the game. You cant kill something? Look at your WOL and see who is doing what numbers, Dps?Hps? Tanking. Who is standing in fire and so on then make the changes.

    Swap people out that arent performing or pull them aside and work with them. If they wont try to get better why would you want to gear them?

    Nerfing does not fix anything and nerfing is the reason we are in this thread to begin with, people used to nerfs of content making them feel like raiders when in fact they probably shouldnt be raiding at all.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 02:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jax View Post
    This is the point... and why the elitist's who seem to think the small little bubble that is their raid is indicative of the entire raiding scene is mindboggling in the extreme.

    Stuff like this:



    Gratz to you and yours... you are not an average raider... so why are you here? HeatherRae is a top notch raider and she "gets it" Many simply are not able to do what you can, get over yourself and understand that this is a fact and no matter how much you put them down or be condescending its not going to improve the situation.

    /facepalm
    I am here because people think nerfing is the answer when it is not. People only become worse players each tier of content because they believe in their heads they are really good players because they cleared a tier with a 30% buff then the next tier starts with no nerfed content and guess what? It is too hard for them because they didnt have to get better to down bosses, they were carried by nerfs. Every tier is like this now.

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